Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Danno]

Yeah, I don't want my daughter to catch it from me. But OTOH, she was with me the entire time before I got sick (we were traveling together and I started feeling symptoms right as we got home), and she's in school not wearing masks. So while I don't want to get her sick, it also feels like a) she would have gotten exposed already and didn't get sick, and b) she's exposed all the freaking time at school. So I also don't want to go overboard protecting her from something that she doesn't need protections from.

[bodywhomper]

She may have infected you…

Part of the point (for some of us?) is to try to mitigate frequent infections.

[riser4]

Sadly, nobody really knows for certain.

[riser4]

I followed CDC guidance, quarantined for 2 weeks or whatever it was during the height of the pandemic while she stayed at our condo. She came home Thanksgiving day after I cleaned/sanitized the house thoroughly and left windows open and fans running for a full day. I tested negative twice two days apart. 5 days later she tested positive. I'm convinced that there's really no avoiding it without isolating and the CDC guidelines are still not long enough.

Shouldn't have shared dildos.

[Danno]

She may have infected you…

Part of the point (for some of us?) is to try to mitigate frequent infections.

HIGHLY unlikely she infected me, though I will admit that is possible because who the fuck knows. We flew to NY, took taxis, went to a crowded museum, etc. Seems way more likely the infection came from there. But if she did infect me, well, then she is safe! lol

[SumJongGuy]

I followed CDC guidance, quarantined for 2 weeks or whatever it was during the height of the pandemic while she stayed at our condo. She came home Thanksgiving day after I cleaned/sanitized the house thoroughly and left windows open and fans running for a full day. I tested negative twice two days apart. 5 days later she tested positive. I'm convinced that there's really no avoiding it without isolating and the CDC guidelines are still not long enough.

Sure sounds like she got it elsewhere.. I was under the impression that we were really only contagious a little before and during the period where we test positive.. Two negative tests over 3-4 days + another 5 days (so 9 days after you're negative) before she tested positive seems like someone else in her airspace was also positive around that time..

After wife tested positive.. me an kiddo tested twice during the 10 days we were cohabitating the house, both negative last one on wife's day 9.. We were negative both times (wearing N95s) CDC/Health Department person calling to check on us periodically said after her 10 days we were safe. Well, 5 days later I can't smell the dog's farts when everyone else is clearing the room.. Bathroom spray nothing.. I just stayed home because I wasn't sick and it was Christmas Break anyway. Gave blood early Feb and was + reactive for antibodies so definitely had it..

[~mikey b]

looks like you’ve been super careful

[emoji849]

[Percy Rideout]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...veness/671879/

Truth wins out, eventually.

[Cisco Kid]

I'll accept your apology for still being wrong.

The Property and Freedom Society (PFS) is a right-wing, anarcho-capitalist political organization located in Bodrum, Turkey. Founded in May 2006 under the stewardship of Hans-Hermann Hoppe

[The AD]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...veness/671879/

Truth wins out, eventually.

She makes a couple okay points, but in my opinion spends a bit too much time talking about people who erred on the side of being too cautious and lets the other side off the hook.

[bodywhomper]

She makes a couple okay points, but in my opinion spends a bit too much time talking about people who erred on the side of being too cautious and lets the other side off the hook.

That’s because she firmly sits on the other side. There is blood on her hands.

[The AD]

That’s because she firmly sits on the other side. There is blood on her hands.

She's an econ professor, so that tells us something right there.

[Percy Rideout]

Why are hospital systems making mutually exclusive statements that don't pass a simple smell test?

1. We are going to fire all unvaccinated employees who are in good standing. (who can help with the COVID surge, and already got the 'Rona 1&2 as they never stopped working, with test results showing exactly when they got it).
2. OH MY GOSH THE HOSPITALS ARE FULL, and we need help!

Which one is it?

2020 heroes are now unemployed in 2021. Entire careers ruined due to executive overreach. Bet OHSA doesn't approve the EO (get ready for a lot of carrying of the water by CNN). 30 years from now a lot of you will have a different opinion on how this all went down.

Remember when you guys agreed to fire all the unvaccinated (antibody positive, have natural immunity but didn't take the VA$$ine) "Heroes" and "essential workers" less than a year after they worked the whole time while your bitchass stayed home on Zoom, when Pfizer didn't even bother to test whether the vaccination blocked transmission (spoiler alert: it didn't), and stayed mum on the topic when it played out in primetime news arguments for the next year? I memba.

The bloviating on by Presidents, doctors, and Pfizer executives about how vaccination stops the spread, and fence sitters should get vaccinated for that sole reason. THIS was the real misinformation. They were blatant lies. COVID conscious individuals changed their routines based on this misinformation and inadvertently spread the virus to others after their respective vaccinations, exasterbating the pandemic, while wrongfully thinking that vaccination stopped transmission.

This old quoted post is from 11/30/21 in this thread.

My how one year changes things.

Now we are starting to see fallout from poor public policy. We are fatter, the kids are dumber, the largest upward transfer of wealth in history happened, and we all took a pay cut due to unchecked inflation. Good times.

Look at your posts (or this thread) from a year ago.

Some of the big poster TGR personalities here were so off base it is impressive. They have moved on and are now Ukraine foreign policy experts.

[The AD]

Remember when you guys agreed to fire all the unvaccinated (antibody positive, have natural immunity but didn't take the VA$$ine) "Heroes" and "essential workers" less than a year after they worked the whole time while your bitchass stayed home on Zoom, when Pfizer didn't even bother to test whether the vaccination blocked transmission (spoiler alert: it didn't)

No, the vaccines absolutely did reduce transmission at least until delta came along, so your position is flawed from the get go. If more of these people had chosen to get vaccinated in the first place it's very possible that delta and omicron wouldn't have existed.

[SumJongGuy]

Without the vax we're still locked down. Without enough critical mass getting vaxxed we're still shut down. The only bitches are the pussies who wouldn't take the jab to get us here faster.

If shit gets real again, heroes will be wearing masks and getting jabbed. Bitches will be whining about bitch shit..

[Percy Rideout]

No, the vaccines absolutely did reduce transmission at least until delta came along, so your position is flawed from the get go. If more of these people had chosen to get vaccinated in the first place it's very possible that delta and omicron wouldn't have existed.

Delta was first identified in India in late 2020. Delta was the predominant strain in the US by early summer 2021.

Vaccines rolled out Dec 2020/Jan 2021 to the first responders/elderly. For most normal people in the US, vaccines wern't readily available until April/May 2021.

Using your logic above, we are talking about ONE SMALL ASS WINDOW IN TIME where you are correct. I'll give you that LOL.

Whataboutism was shot down on page 369 of this thread. Viruses mutate you dolt.

[The AD]

Using your logic above, we are talking about ONE SMALL ASS WINDOW IN TIME where you are correct. I'll give you that LOL.

But that was the situation when the vaccines were first available and they were effective at reducing transmission until the virus mutated. It's a bit difficult to predict that before it actually happens. In any case, the vaccines were very effective at reducing transmission for several months min to more like a year and that undoubtedly saved many lives. Remember that all of us are now looking at this through the lens of lots of people actually getting vaccinated. It's easy to say it wasn't as bad as it could have been now. If the vaccines weren't available it would have been much worse.

[CarlMega]

Faced with an uncertain danger, you take precautions using the best information available. Given the potential for loss - which was both realized and significant - you give the situation the respect it deserves and adjust behaviors to be risk adverse.

Most people welcomed data, remedies and preventative measures - adherence would benefit everyone's collective health. Instead, we had resistance and hostility that sprung from irrationality with a political motivation. For many of us, it was unfathomable that political gamesmanship would supersede a global threat; no less against proven, low risk options. It actually was unmooring how unconcerned and vengeful - openly hostile to our fellow humans this radical force could be.

So, while I agree with the author that the path to improvement means moving past this division, it's impossible to unring that bell. Personally, I've lost faith in our American society to deal with a crisis. Further, I take exception to her highlighting overlycautious behaviors while not also highlighting people who polluted the dialog and took action against improvements - sometimes to their own demise.

During the pandemic many of us lost someone or experienced debilitating illness or close call; trivializing that by scrutinizing our options then thru the situation as it is now, where we have the benefit of preparedness and experience is insulting.

[The AD]

Well said, Carl.

[bodywhomper]

She’s previously argued that’s it’s not worth providing treatments for HIV.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0725/044.html

[MultiVerse]

Remember when you guys agreed to fire all the unvaccinated (antibody positive, have natural immunity but didn't take the VA$$ine) "Heroes" and "essential workers" less than a year after they worked the whole time while your bitchass stayed home on Zoom, when Pfizer didn't even bother to test whether the vaccination blocked transmission (spoiler alert: it didn't), and stayed mum on the topic when it played out in primetime news arguments for the next year? I memba.

You're misrepresenting the conversation from a year ago. There was no consensus in which everyone 'agreed' to fire all the unvaccinated. Not to mention there isn't an effective antibody test like the one antivaxxers imagine exists.

As for blocking transmission, the distinction between shorter term antibody based immunity and longer term T cell and B cell immunity was explained dozens of times. In fact the people you're disparaging were the first to explain how certain types of immunity wanes over time. You were either incapable of understanding the concept or willfully ignorant.

The same people you're disparaging were also a lot earlier than you on the efficacy of various types of masks, airborne and not fomite transmission, getting kids back in school, the very low risk of outdoor transmission, and so on.

The fact is your main stance, the hill you chose to die on, the antivax 'herd immunity' stance led to 100s of thousands of unnecessary deaths. It's OK to be wrong. It's not OK to keep spreading false information. After all, "We can leave out the willful purveyors of actual misinformation while forgiving the hard calls that people had no choice but to make with imperfect knowledge."

[MultiVerse]

She’s previously argued that’s it’s not worth providing treatments for HIV.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0725/044.html

She's not arguing against HIV treatment, she's saying in a poor country there are more effective ways to spend scarce resources when it comes to saving lives: "My conclusions: Antiretroviral treatment is around 100 times as expensive in preventing AIDS deaths as treating other sexually transmitted infections and around 25 times as expensive as education."

[bodywhomper]

It was a cruel argument

[Meadow Skipper]

She's an econ professor, so that tells us something right there.

Yeah, I was wondering why we were even paying attention to an economist on this topic…

She’s previously argued that’s it’s not worth providing treatments for HIV.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0725/044.html

…or this one. Economists, if I have to point this out, are focused on money, not humanity.

[MultiVerse]

Her argument is the most humane because she's trying to save the most lives. Economists are focused on policy. According to her research, in Africa you can save a 100 human lives treating other sexually transmitted infections, and 25 human lives through HIV education, as you can treating one person with Antiretroviral drugs.

Moreover, she's not per se arguing against Antiretroviral drugs. She's laying out the options in terms of lives saved for policy makers, "It may be that my conclusions are best laid aside in the name of morality and compassion. But in making the tough decisions about how to spend limited resources, we should understand the economic consequences of our choices."