Full Face Helmets - What Say You

[supermodel159]

Finally decided a full face helmet is in my future. I’ve always had Scott mtb helmets, which I love, but they no longer have a full face helmet offering.

I was curious was the group is riding, what they like/dislike or would recommend. The only helmets that defiantly don’t fit me are POC’s. My local shops have zero in stock, besides a small specialized, so I can’t go try any on at the moment.

Thoughts?

[californiagrown]

Troy Lee fit my head phenominally and i ride DH trails in a D3 carbon. I would highly suggest spending the additional $100 for the "carbon" or lighter version of the helmet. The lower weight will reduce whiplash, and likely reduce the force your head shitwhips into the ground. Helmets are the one thing to not skimp on as the cost to upgrade is soooo cheap compared to the consequences of an even slightly worse concussion.

[mtnjam]

Finally decided a full face helmet is in my future. I’ve always had Scott mtb helmets, which I love, but they no longer have a full face helmet offering.

I was curious was the group is riding, what they like/dislike or would recommend. The only helmets that defiantly don’t fit me are POC’s. My local shops have zero in stock, besides a small specialized, so I can’t go try any on at the moment.

Thoughts?

What kind of trails are you riding? FFH's are usually overkill for most riding IMHO. I see people riding cross country trails in Boise with FFH's and can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want to feel so claustrophobic and hot riding sand sidewalks.

[supermodel159]

What kind of trails are you riding? FFH's are usually overkill for most riding IMHO. I see people riding cross country trails in Boise with FFH's and can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want to feel so claustrophobic and hot riding sand sidewalks.

Generally, the FFH would be worn at Mammoth Mountain, lift served, all rowdy DH.

[east or bust]

Another TLD vote here.

Picked up a D4 carbon on sale last year and I’ll continue to buy them as needed until they don’t make them anymore.


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[mtnjam]

Generally, the FFH would be worn at Mammoth Mountain, lift served, all rowdy DH.

On those trails, by all means it'd be nice having full armor and a FFH.

I just shake my head at all the shuttle monkeys in Boise wearing FFH's, nothing is that gnar in the foothills, even the moto trails.

[bigwaterbird]

I just picked up a Smith Mainline this summer for light duty park riding and I am pretty impressed. Tons of ventilation, the fit is super comfortable (helmet comes with extra pads to customize fit), and it’s quite light. Their Mtb goggles mate very well (as they should). Haven’t done much uphill pedaling with it yet, but so far I like it. It is also DH certified.

[XXX-er]

The FF helmet was an easy sell as an xmas pres to parents looking for a gift, i asked them how much they spent on that orthodontic bill and do they wana protect it ?

[toast2266]

Same as any other helmet. Find a shop with some in stock. Get the one that fits. It's a little trickier than a half shell because the shell needs to fit right and so do the cheek pads. If you're relying on goggles to get a good snug fit, the helmet doesn't fit right.

In terms of features, personally I don't think many of the features of full face helmets make much difference. Ventilation barely matters - they're all hot. I think the benefits of MIPS are diminished in a full face - regardless of mips, the helmet doesn't rotate around on your head like it does with a half shell. I agree that a lighter weight helmet is better for both safety and comfort. Also, some full face have a reduced field of vision, but you won't know that until you try them on with your goggles.

All that is to say, fit matters above all else. I'm in a D3 because that's what fits me best. The D4 is a "better" helmet, but it fits differently and didn't work for me.

Edit to add: if your local shops don't carry anything, go buy something at a shop up at mammoth. They oughta have a decent stock.

[Andeh]

If your local shops don't carry many, check with some online retailers if they're ok with you buying a few different ones to try on then returning them (and them covering the cost of return shipping, or at least giving you discounted return). Fanatik, Competitive Cyclist, Jenson, or other bigger online shops with big inventory are good for this. They're going to expect you not actually use it, but trying on is ok.

[Roxtar]

I'm considering the Kali Invader 2.0.
I think it has more air flow than my regular helmet

[toast2266]

I'm considering the Kali Invader 2.0.
I think it has more air flow than my regular helmet

If you're planning to pedal uphill in it, it may well be great.

If you're just using it for downhill, get a real downhill helmet. That thing doesn't meet certifications for a real dh helmet.

And specific certifications aside, it's a safe assumption that if you remove 40% of the material from a helmet, it's not going to protect as well.

[XXX-er]

if you have ever been face surfing and I did riding a moto X bike wearing a FF

a FF helmet seems like a really good idea

[powking12]

Here’s another vote for trying them on. Fit is very different among FF helmets. Picked up a carbon D4 and I’m verrrry happy. Fit is best ever for me.

[jm2e]

What kind of trails are you riding? FFH's are usually overkill for most riding IMHO. I see people riding cross country trails in Boise with FFH's and can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want to feel so claustrophobic and hot riding sand sidewalks.

Several years ago riding well within my limits, way below bike park speed in Pisgah. Front wheel washed out and I went down on my face. Broken nose, scalp laceration above eyebrow.
I rarely wear a half shell now. I’m more likely to wear a baseball hat on a gravel ride than to wear a half shell on a mtb ride.


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[jm2e]

All that is to say, fit matters above all else.

x1000

A good fit helps you ride better and allows the helmet to function the way it was designed to.

Carbon and techy features make you 3% safer and 97% more self righteous.



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[TurxSki]

FF...

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[summit]

Features do matter. You want, at minimum:
* Multiple foam densities to manage different impact speeds (2 minimum, preferably 3 to 5 including a low density layer)
* Rotational (shear) force mitigation (spherical MIPS or LDL may be better than the ubiquitous yellow sheer plane MIPS).

Safest DH Helmets:
Leatt MTB 8.0
Kali Shiva 2.0
Giro Insurgent Spherical
6D ATB-1

Safest convertible (better ventilation/weight at the cost of some protection):
Bell Super DH Spherical
Leatt Enduro 4.0
Sweet Arbitrator

[sb]

I have one of those Specalized fullys, i like how it makes me look danger and fast even on flat trails.

[summit]

Good fit is required, but it is not the only important feature. Most people will be able to find many helmets that fit well.

Additional important features:
* Smooth helmet shell with no sharp edges on the helmet exterior (TLD has (had?) a lot of these while POC is famous for rounded helmets) which can catch and drastically increase rotational (and linear) forces
* Breakaway visor and camera mount (same idea as above))
* Cheek pad ejection

Remember, the purpose of a helmet in crash is to minimize acceleration (linear and rotational) experienced by and energy imparted to your brain. Secondarily it prevents abrading/lacerating/penetrating/facial trauma. It needs to do these things comfortably (fit, weight, ventilation).

[californiagrown]

Features do matter.

Yep, brain buckets are not the place to cut corners. If that carbon shell allows for your head to hit the ground a little less hard and you get a 5% more mild concussion (pulled from my ass), being able to return to full function at work 5% quicker is well worth the extra $100 or whatever the added cost is.

Shit always seems expensive until shit actually hits the fan. Then it looks extremely cheap in hindsight.

[summit]

I don't scrimp a dime on helmets. I'll pay whatever. I ride the Leatt MTB Gravity 8 and Bell Super DH.

Leatt, Bell, and TLD are all industry leading moto brands and that R&D informs their mtb designs. I'm impressed by what Leatt offers at the prices they do, and their high end MTB helmet is the exact same as their high end Moto lids which exceed the brand new EU standards (2021 ECE 22.06 + FIM) that actually test (in addition to what other standards test):
* Multiple impact speeds
* Off axis impacts
* Multiple impact points
* Rotational forces

When someone say their lid is DH MTB rated that means almost jack shit to me for actual DH riding... except in a light/convertible helmet where I would say that it indicates possibly a better ability to prevent skull fracture over a CSPC lid (normal bike helmet). The ASTM 1952 DH standard is 22 years old with only tiny tweaks. It only tests linear impact (and chin protector if present). The fact that a Smith Mainline passes is an example that reinforces my skepticism. Note that the Kali Invader and Bell Super Air don't pass DH. On an interesting note, the Bell Super 2R and 3R would have passed as half domes, but didn't pass on the chin protector.

[toast2266]

Features do matter. You want, at minimum:
* Multiple foam densities to manage different impact speeds (2 minimum, preferably 3 to 5 including a low density layer)
* Rotational (shear) force mitigation (spherical MIPS or LDL may be better than the ubiquitous yellow sheer plane MIPS).

Safest DH Helmets:
Leatt MTB 8.0
Kali Shiva 2.0
Giro Insurgent Spherical
6D ATB-1

Safest convertible (better ventilation/weight at the cost of some protection):
Bell Super DH Spherical
Leatt Enduro 4.0
Sweet Arbitrator

Mostly agreed with this, with 3 significant caveats.
1) When most people talk about features, they're not talking about safety features. They're talking about ventilation, sunglass storage, etc. Those features should be a secondary (or tertiary) consideration.

2) Roughly zero helmet companies provide any unbiased data on their safety features to back up their claims. The few that do provide data almost never provide a control group to compare their data to. Some of those safety features (like multiple foam densities) almost certainly provide a benefit in certain situations. Some safety features are a bit dubious. Some of those safety features probably make the helmet less safe, and least in some situations (looking at you koroyd). According to the data from Virginia Tech's independent helmet ratings, impact performance doesn't correlate particularly well with fancy features, although admittedly they're only running a few fairly basic tests. None of the top helmets have dual density foam or fancy carbon bits or weird rubber bumpers in them. Note that the top 10 helmets range in price from $50 to $300. Money doesn't buy you safety, at least according to their test.

3) Many of the safety features increase protection in certain situations but decrease it others. Example: carbon helmets work better in high speed crashes and worse in low speed crashes. The rigid shell dissipates force over the EPS and doesn't allow the EPS to crush or crack on lower speed impacts. So that's good if you're gonna tomahawk through a rock garden at 30 mph, but bad if you're gonna have an awkward moment and slowly tip over off of that 3' high skinny. The point being that safety features are often a compromise, but the marketing department will never tell you that.

All that is to say that fit matters more than anything. Get a helmet that fits.

[XXX-er]

When I was 16 I went over the bars and landed face first, the moto i was riding came over my helmet leaving a knobbie print, I did at least one night in hospital, got a concussion & back/ neck issues for years but NO facial cuts or dental problems. When I took a look at the helmet the expanded foam in the chin which used to be 1" had been crushed to 1/2 " so FF helmets work pretty good IME and i had a great Chiro who put everything back

[Boissal]

Several years ago riding well within my limits, way below bike park speed in Pisgah. Front wheel washed out and I went down on my face. Broken nose, scalp laceration above eyebrow.
I rarely wear a half shell now. I’m more likely to wear a baseball hat on a gravel ride than to wear a half shell on a mtb ride.

Hear hear.

It's likely that the FF will never come into play while riding the actual gnar but will save yo face when doing something dumb on a casual ride. Complacency is the issue and that tends to happen more when riding mellower stuff.
I used to think people riding Crest with FF and body armor were tools, it's an easy trail, why bring battle armor? Now that I'm old and less of an arrogant twat I realize they just don't want to get hurt regardless of how hard they plan on sending. And I respect that. I find it hysterical when I ride by people with a FF and I hear them shit talk about it. As if the lack of desire to leave teeth behind was something to be sneered at.

I took my first big digger with the FF a couple weeks ago. It happened within 200' of the end of the ride, in sight of the car. On a flatish section of trail I've ridden 100 times with nothing even remotely technical. I was pumped after 2500' of downhill on a new trail with lots of serious steeps and very tech moves. Everything had gone great, I was riding super well, and I randomly lost the front trying to steeze my way around something. Went OTB face-first into the ground and ragdolled into a stump and a bunch of rocks. My back is all purple from bouncing off the stump and the visor of the helmet is gone. Also took a hit to the back of the head, fairly low, at a spot that may or may not be covered with a 1/2 lid depending on head orientation. Not sure I'd be typing this right now if I hadn't been wearing the FF...