Why I dislike e-bikes

[climberevan]

. I don't think there are typical powersports shops selling e-bikes,

FYI many motorcycle shops are now also selling mopeds. The KTM shop 1/2 mile from my house has Intense ones. The moto guys love them. It's funny, but they are sometimes better at following the rules than the non-cyclists who buy mopeds, because they are used to riding dirtbikes, which can't exactly sneak onto non-motorized trails.

[livefreerdie]

P4B is realizing that they have a lot to lose now. It's hard to say whether they will continue pushing product and shit regulations at all costs, or take their own advice.

I agree the important connection to the community is bike shops. I don't think there are typical powersports shops selling e-bikes, so bike shops can be the link with trail advocacy groups and promote good etiquette/education. The bike advocates directly supporting will be very awkward in areas with BLM and USFS land, considering the only travel plan post Secretarial Order resulted in a loss of trails for mountain bikers due to e-bikes.

[SkiLyft]

Was mulling this over on my ride this afternoon.

Every ebike has a computer, why not simply limit the speed to say 5 or 6 MPH until the owner takes an online course discussing all the challenges eMTBs face and proper riding etiquette. Once the course is taken they can register their bike and then use all that fancy horsepower.

This won’t work on 2nd hand bike sales as those would already be “unlocked” but hell it would at least help with educating the dentist who has never even pedaled a MTB but yet dropped 20k for new e-sleds for him and his wife.


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[toast2266]

What community? They don't have a large one. It is a bunch of newer and more casual users.

The community that gets suuuuper wound up in any comment section if anyone says anything somewhat negative about ebikes.

Local shop says about 50% of the bikes they sell these days are mopeds. That's enough people for there to be organized representation for them. Lots of people on analog bikes are beginners or casual riders too. And advocacy groups speak for them just fine. Doesn't need to be any different for ebikers.

[singlesline]

That Yahoo/USA Today article was good. So good in fact that I can hardly believe it came from USA Today.

Was mulling this over on my ride this afternoon.

Every ebike has a computer, why not simply limit the speed to say 5 or 6 MPH until the owner takes an online course discussing all the challenges eMTBs face and proper riding etiquette. Once the course is taken they can register their bike and then use all that fancy horsepower.

This won’t work on 2nd hand bike sales as those would already be “unlocked” but hell it would at least help with educating the dentist who has never even pedaled a MTB but yet dropped 20k for new e-sleds for him and his wife.

Reading all of this made me wonder about something akin to a fishing license. I mean...that's a slippery slope and cyclists have long resisted any sort of license/registration, but eMTBs are both expensive and motorized which I think might create enough of a differentiation to make them distinct.

Basically just a token fee that makes users say "I read the rules/protocols and I agree to abide by them" and has some material that encourages good habits. Not hard to get, but it allows for some teeth for enforcing rules against bad actors. There is enough of an existing MTB population that like a fishing license, you could make it be very taboo to be riding an e-bike on trails without one...and it could provide a nice small bit of extra funding to trail maintainers.

[XXX-er]

which e mtnbike, or moped or wtf ?

a class 1 you buy at a real bike store is pedal assist with no throttle so if you stop pedaling the bike stops, in spite of having a motor it doesn't need a license and it doesnt need insurance cuz its not register-able

OTOH the e mopeds aren't license-able aren't register-able for the road and aren't legal on many trails

I asked shop bro about what is essentially a moped and he said " we don't sell them cuz the aren't legal " at least in BC

[Mountainman]

That Yahoo/USA Today article was good. So good in fact that I can hardly believe it came from USA Today.



Reading all of this made me wonder about something akin to a fishing license. I mean...that's a slippery slope and cyclists have long resisted any sort of license/registration, but eMTBs are both expensive and motorized which I think might create enough of a differentiation to make them distinct.

Basically just a token fee that makes users say "I read the rules/protocols and I agree to abide by them" and has some material that encourages good habits. Not hard to get, but it allows for some teeth for enforcing rules against bad actors. There is enough of an existing MTB population that like a fishing license, you could make it be very taboo to be riding an e-bike on trails without one...and it could provide a nice small bit of extra funding to trail maintainers.

Let's just make all mountain bikes get some sort of sticker or registration. Sure would drum up a lot of money that could potentially go back into trails.

[hick]

Let's just make all mountain bikes get some sort of sticker or registration. Sure would drum up a lot of money that could potentially go back into trails.

I would support that in a heartbeat if it was guaranteed to be put into trail maintenance and new trail construction. Same as sled/ snow bike registration and grooming heavily used approaches.


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[Bunion 2020]

I would support that in a heartbeat if it was guaranteed to be put into trail maintenance and new trail construction. Same as sled/ snow bike registration and grooming heavily used approaches.


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x3

[climberevan]

I'd also go for the registration idea. I gladly pay annual fees for my off-road motos and they go largely to trail building and maintenance. The fee should be a lot higher for SxS than it is for dirt bikes, though.

[snowaddict91]

CO talked about MTB registration a few years back and it lit a firestorm of opposition. Personally, if the money goes back to non-motorized trails AND stays local, I'll register all of our bikes tomorrow.

[SkiLyft]

Here here, I’m in favor!! Could do wonders for trail maintenance and expansion.


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[Falcon3]

Yeah I got a lot less problems with ebikes than I do with horses, regardless of how the rider behaves.

At least ebikes don’t weigh 1000+ pounds and need extra space and you can’t fucking *surprise* them into a murderous rage/anxiety attack by just fucking EXISTING.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

This is their big problem. The whole "I have a new toy and I will play with it wherever I want regardless of any rules to the contrary" behavior is making mopeders a lot of enemies. They would be better off if they would advocate for acceptance. Instead of trying to convince anyone, they just go straight to "fuck you, I'll do what I want!". This new tech has come at a bad time for society, when we're less likely to try to emapthize in any sphere.

The Yahoo article was good, IMO.

Isn’t “fuck you, I’ll do what I want” our mantra for everything in the US?

There are different user groups within the ebike “community”. The young and lazy that just want to shred the local trails as fast as they can “more miles, more smiles”, direct quote. The clueless newbs getting in over their head and the boomer elite on the multi use paved trail here. Yesterday I saw a group of four boomer tourists on the loop on rented class 2 or 3 ebikes. Throttles. They’re all cruising along at 20-35 mph, 15 is the limit. One of the older ladies was wearing heels, blouse and slacks with leather blazer, she might have been wearing pearls. She was cruising one handed uphill clutching her purse with the other hand. Not even pretending to pedal. At least people are getting out, right?!

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[simple]

Isn’t “fuck you, I’ll do what I want” our mantra for everything in the US?


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Add to that...and we know the cops/sheriff's/rangers/parents/etc aren't around to tell us not to do it.

So we need to self patrol the nonsense. Exhausting but worth it to see adults make little sad/mad faces when they get told they are wrong

[westoxified]

has e-bike right of way been covered in this thread? i keep descending on e-bikers. their uphill speed always surprises me and they are slightly surly if i disrupt their 'uphill flow'.

now it's kinda my thing but i am getting the gnawing sense that it is a douchey thing. i should immediately hop out of the way of these uphill savages and just give them the double bird as they whir by. or maybe just silence. has the silent treatment been discussed?

in other electric news i am noticing a ton of airpods on the trails these days. i generally try to smush them into the trail so they don't roll off the trail and become harder for their owners to find. i guess this can also be filed under douchey propensities.

[TBS]

in other electric news i am noticing a ton of airpods on the trails these days. i generally try to smush them into the trail so they don't roll off the trail and become harder for their owners to find. i guess this can also be filed under douchey propensities.

Don’t do that - they are worth like $50 each, as I learned the hard way when I dropped one of mine in a blinding blizzard…

[singlesline]

Yeah I got a lot less problems with ebikes than I do with horses, regardless of how the rider behaves.

At least ebikes don’t weigh 1000+ pounds and need extra space and you can’t fucking *surprise* them into a murderous rage/anxiety attack by just fucking EXISTING.

The horse people are always kinda crazy to me. I understand that there's a longstanding legacy of horseback riding but I sometimes get a kick out of running through this thought experiment:

What if horses were a new invention?

Here's their pitch:
We want to ride 1000lb animals on trails.
All other users must yield to us so our animal doesn't spook.
All of that weight will be focused on small feet that will tear up soft trails.
Our sport is mostly restricted to rich people.
We're not going to show up for or organize any sort of volunteer trail clean up/maintenance.
We will routinely leave big piles of shit on the trail.

[westoxified]

but you noticed when it fell out. not clear why they are just lying in the trail these days. i mean i've seen it twice this spring so not super common. the first time i rode over it and then caught up to a e-bike couple and asked if they dropped an airpod. bro thanked me profusely realizing he only had one in his hip belt pocket. i told him it was still in the trail as i rode by.

this is starting to feel like a confessional. yikes.

[Canada1]

Add to that...and we know the cops/sheriff's/rangers/parents/etc aren't around to tell us not to do it.

So we need to self patrol the nonsense. Exhausting but worth it to see adults make little sad/mad faces when they get told they are wrong

Is it? For me it isn't.
It ruins my ride to have some little Tesla bike punk get up in my face about "Am I a Sherriff". Makes me wish I still had nothing to loose, so I could just knock their ass out and ride on. As it is, it is just easier to ride on.

The idea of having someone out there to enforce the rules is desirable to me. Takes me back to all of the shenanigans in Moab. If there was one ranger in my county who went out a mile on the popular trails, they would pay their salary in hours, if they could ticket people. Word would get out fast not to ride on the closed areas. Five $500.00 tickets and suddenly the E bike users would hear about it and never do it again. But as it is, we've created a bunch of rules and there is no consequence. So, it was just wasted effort and time.

If we get licenses, who gets the money? If it went to local trail building groups, then fantastic. If it went to some new governmental bureaucracy, then I'm not sure. Solutions create their own problems. Do I want someone enforcing speed limits on trails, because the hikers would be all about that. Heck, a couple years ago I had a crazy lady grab me on a climb because she didn't like how fast I was going and I'm slow and old!!

[SKIP IN7RO]

Fuck the door handles, take a page out of the BC bc handbook and drop a steamer on their windshield.

[Bunion 2020]

It ruins my ride to have some little Tesla bike punk get up in my face about "Am I a Sherriff". As it is, it is just easier to ride on.

This.

The current "rules/free for all" is too frustrating. There are plenty of trails where E-bikes would be fine and plenty where they are not. But the attempts at setting boundaries are so all or nothing its no wonder a new user group tunes them out and opts for, forgiveness instead of permission.

[simple]

Yeah passionate about things online and then apathy in the real world. Sums up a lot of people. I'm the opposite, apathy online and passionate in the real world. I don't look for an argument with people out on trails but I do occasionally find myself explaining etiquette to folks. A few snowflakes get melted but if you want the wild west then expect an occasional face off. It's why I don't drive a car to work. I would have been hurt by a pyscho road rager at some point by now. Or hurt them..

[Bunion 2020]

I have better things to do than argue with people about their behavior.

[summit]

has e-bike right of way been covered in this thread? i keep descending on e-bikers. their uphill speed always surprises me and they are slightly surly if i disrupt their 'uphill flow'

Motorized always yields to all other users.