Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[LongShortLong]

To throw it back at the anti-vax contingent, if Covid is so serious why not try getting vaccinated? Seems like something that was actually designed from the get-go to prevent Covid, and has been now administered to billions of people has a better chance of being effective than simply spitballing some drug designed for a completely different purpose.

Whoa whoa, back up there. Where's the drama? Where's the international conspiracy? Simple story that works, impossible.

[ex-powderbroker]

I wish ivermectin cured brain worms.

[riser4]

I wish ivermectin cured brain worms.

Troof.

[KQ]

[Benny Profane]

Japan's xenophobia has been knawing at it's ass for years now, but now that that incredibly old and ethnically homogenous society is doing well in Covid, some people think that they are doing something right. I guess, but, now what? Hope the kids don't get so pissed they follow another dictator to nuclear disaster.

[SumJongGuy]

Call out that the comments say this is for NON FIT TESTED.. If it's a legit fit tested N95 you are pretty damned safe for a VERY long time... also in the notes below the chart..

[riser4]

Call out that the comments say this is for NON FIT TESTED.. If it's a legit fit tested N95 you are pretty damned safe for a VERY long time... also in the notes below the chart..

Except that N95 masks are rated for a certain cumulative number of hours of use, I believe 40?

[Garbowski]

You could make a similar chart using the distance between two people. Small percentages matter when you play the game billions of times a day.

[SumJongGuy]

Except that N95 masks are rated for a certain cumulative number of hours of use, I believe 40?

It depends on the level of nastiness in the usage environment.. best plan is have 2-3 and cycle them.
How Many Times Can You Wear an N95 Face Mask?

[old goat]

That data appears to be based on modeling based on lab evaluation of effectiveness against aerosols in a lab, not on any clinical data of actual covid infection. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but should be considered with that in mind. And clinical data of that kind would be nearly impossible to get.

The data does fit with my uneducated guess that masks in general are good for brief and intermediate lengths of exposure--like shopping or riding a bus--but not for hours of exposure at work or school.

[jono]

That data appears to be based on modeling based on lab evaluation of effectiveness against aerosols in a lab, not on any clinical data of actual covid infection. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but should be considered with that in mind. And clinical data of that kind would be nearly impossible to get.

The data does fit with my uneducated guess that masks in general are good for brief and intermediate lengths of exposure--like shopping or riding a bus--but not for hours of exposure at work or school.

And there's something amiss with the model if they're getting the same times for source control as for protecting the uninfected wearer, assuming there's any space at all between them. The dynamics of particles moving in free air motivated by exhaling vs. inhaling are very different, as should (and commonly does) show up in those numbers.

A very similar chart was posted a while back and the times were more like double if worn by the infected person.

Also, fitted N95's are 99% efficient? Maybe some, certainly not all.

[Kinnikinnick]

If Covid is SO SERIOUS why not try Ivermectin?

If abortion is so serious why not try saran wrap for birth control?


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[Mofro261]

And there's something amiss with the model if they're getting the same times for source control as for protecting the uninfected wearer, assuming there's any space at all between them. The dynamics of particles moving in free air motivated by exhaling vs. inhaling are very different, as should (and commonly does) show up in those numbers.

A very similar chart was posted a while back and the times were more like double if worn by the infected person.

Also, fitted N95's are 99% efficient? Maybe some, certainly not all.

Efficiency of the filtration is 99%, that's blockage of particles through the filter matrix.

Protection factor, or total reduction in particles is 10 fold, or 90% reduction. This accounts for movement of particles around the face seal, which is different for different face types etc.

So filtration + fit = protection factor.

An N95 mask will give an average protection factor of 10, but will vary from 5-100 dependent on fit on the face.

[bodywhomper]

Can mine go to 11?!

Anybody using the duck beak style n95’s. I’ve heard that at least the 3m ones allow a lot of air through the matrix when correctly fitted. Like you can work out in one. True or false? Does it go to 11?

[The Reverend Floater]

Can mine go to 11?!

Anybody using the duck beak style n95’s. I’ve heard that at least the 3m ones allow a lot of air through the matrix when correctly fitted. Like you can work out in one. True or false? Does it go to 11?

I, too, would like to know about the duck lips. Eight hour flights in a regular mask is some sort of torture.

[SumJongGuy]

Man people are showing up early and lining up for the free N95s here. But I'll be surprised if folks are wearing them at the store. I hope they're grabbing them for their older relatives, folks in assisted and/or communal living, etc.

I wish the folks I was sharing space with this evening had them.. One was total chin strap half heartedly pulling it up to the bottom of his nose for a minute about every ten minutes. The others were wearing cloth masks and barking loudly about things angrily. I kept pinching the bridge of my KN95 to keep it sealed tightly... glad it was a new one. Was in a trailer classroom with them for about 45 minutes. Yikes..

[jono]

Efficiency of the filtration is 99%, that's blockage of particles through the filter matrix.

Protection factor, or total reduction in particles is 10 fold, or 90% reduction. This accounts for movement of particles around the face seal, which is different for different face types etc.

So filtration + fit = protection factor.

An N95 mask will give an average protection factor of 10, but will vary from 5-100 dependent on fit on the face.

I believe we're on the same page here: I was referring to the note in the graphic, which seems optimistic since some N95's have (have had?) staples to hold on the straps, for example. Which worked because the filtration material was good enough to meet the 95% required by the spec despite some leakage through those holes. IOW, fit won't raise those examples to 99%, even though other examples do better.

Given whatever else is in that model I'm a little skeptical about the 2500 hour number, but hopefully it's moot. Below some leakage rate the half life of viral particles that get past a mask should be low enough that the number might as well be infinite, right? Or is it so contagious at this point that you're continually rolling the dice as to whether one eventually finds a home?

[The AD]

I, too, would like to know about the duck lips. Eight hour flights in a regular mask is some sort of torture.

I've got some of those, although they are KN95. I wore one to work today and the mask portion was comfortable enough, but the ear loops got pretty uncomfortable after nine hours at work.

[bodywhomper]

I, too, would like to know about the duck lips. Eight hour flights in a regular mask is some sort of torture.

This an example of what I’m talking about. Supposedly won’t fog glasses

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v101143932/

[~mikey b]

I have used duck masks and these both at work and they’re both pretty good

[bagtagley]

This an example of what I’m talking about. Supposedly won’t fog glasses

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v101143932/

That’s what we have and IME are the best mix of fit and comfort for us and the kids. The big foam pad seals well against the nose and cheeks and the bottom is pliable and goes under the chin really well. They also expand so talking doesn’t move the mask and mess with the seal. Only problem is the rubber band straps, which can break if you’re not careful.

These are what we’ve been calling duck bills. I’m not a fan and the coban straps blow out really quickly, but they do seem to seal well and they’re pretty comfortable. I definitely prefer them to the ones below.



We also have some of these. I’m also not a fan but they’re the only ones my daughter will wear.

[SumJongGuy]

I'm only going to use a legit full N95 with head straps in situation where I know I will have to wear it for over an hour like airport travel or in a shared workplace. I understand why that style is the most effective, tightest fitting. But, I'm good with the comfort and convenience tradoff of ear loop KN95s for regular everyday shopping and other fairly quick interactions.

I've also MacGyvered a 3M 8210 N95 under a cloth mask with ear loops for better filtration but convenience of ear loops. I rolled with that when wife was infected and it kept me good for as long as I was using it, 10 days. , in the same bedroom with her for an hour at a time here and there to keep her company, bring her food, etc.. She was unmasked in the master bedroom, but put it on a surgical mask or cloth mask if she came out to the kitchen to grab food or cook something. She wore surgical masks when she came out to the kitchen.

[bodywhomper]

I’ve mainly been using a kn95 with ear loops. Tough to wear for extended time, like when I’m carpooling, because the loops are too short (hurts over time) and I struggle with glasses fogging. But mine are hot pink and I’ve noticed that many people are treating me differently in a way that I appreciate.

[mcphee]

Anybody use those outdoor research masks that you can insert filters?

I doubt they’re as effective as an N95 or KN95, but they have to be better than a cloth mask, right? They’re comfy, washable, and you can change the filters easily but are they just gimmicky?


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[oldnew_guy]

N95 is “better” than a KN95 and not hard to obtain. I get no glasses fogging with an N95 because the fit is tight enough air isn’t escaping past my nose. Bands go around your head significantly reducing the back of ear fatigue factor.

No brainer IMO. Just avoid buying on Amazon or other online retailers full of counterfeit junk and check the numbers against the approved list.