Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Ted Striker]

public schools, public transit, and public buildings... Who can get through life without utilizing those three entities?

Grow up white & rich and you'll never see the inside of any.

[SumJongGuy]

Well, it's already clear that you get removed from the organ transplant list for refusal to get vaxxed.. I'm good with also disqualifying unvaxxed from ventilator access

Being fat doesn't take you off the organ transfer list, but drinking alcoholically and other drug use also disqualifies you. Just tossing that out there for the "what about fat people" comments..

[Ted Striker]

...but drinking alcoholically

[bennymac]

As soon as someone says omicron is just a cold or flu you can discount their ability to think critically because that comparison is so obviously wrong you could explain it to a 5 year old and they’d understand it.

Jack has 100 apples. Jill has 2000 apples. Who has more apples?

[funkendrenchman]

As soon as someone says omicron is just a cold or flu you can discount their ability to think critically because that comparison is so obviously wrong you could explain it to a 5 year old and they’d understand it.

Jack has 100 apples. Jill has 2000 apples. Who has more apples?

Now could you compare it to the flu (in terms of severity) if the population were 100% vaccinated and boosted?

[Core Shot]

I know the pandemic isn't over, but for god's sake, can we start moving our little ones toward more normalcy? I've been super cautious with them this whole time, but with two years of data and with vaccinations available to everyone in the US (5+) that wants one, I feel ready to change my tune a bit.

The kids just had RSV and it SUCKED! Yet, we've spent two years testing them, masking and keeping them out of school every time a sniffle comes up, trying to protect them from Covid. Yet, almost every kid under 6 I know who's had Covid has had somewhere between nothing and a regular cold and they aren't even vaccinated yet. Obviously, there are some exceptions, but there will always be. Remember that the flu is also super dangerous for the under 2 set and we've never taken any real measure to protect them in schools.

Under 5 hospitalization rate:
RSV - .5 to 2 %
Omicron - .015% (and that's 4x higher than for kids 5-17)

Yep.

But let’s keep fucking that chicken

[The AD]

Now could you compare it to the flu (in terms of severity) if the population were 100% vaccinated and boosted?

Perhaps, but then it's still not a valid comparison because nowhere near 100% of people are vaccinated against the flu.

[Percy Rideout]

I know the pandemic isn't over, but for god's sake, can we start moving our little ones toward more normalcy? I've been super cautious with them this whole time, but with two years of data and with vaccinations available to everyone in the US (5+) that wants one, I feel ready to change my tune a bit.

The kids just had RSV and it SUCKED! Yet, we've spent two years testing them, masking and keeping them out of school every time a sniffle comes up, trying to protect them from Covid. Yet, almost every kid under 6 I know who's had Covid has had somewhere between nothing and a regular cold and they aren't even vaccinated yet. Obviously, there are some exceptions, but there will always be. Remember that the flu is also super dangerous for the under 2 set and we've never taken any real measure to protect them in schools.

Under 5 hospitalization rate:
RSV - .5 to 2 %
Omicron - .015% (and that's 4x higher than for kids 5-17)

This line of thinking is our only realistic way towards the "new normal". Glad you're coming around.

[funkendrenchman]

Perhaps, but then it's still not a valid comparison because nowhere near 100% of people are vaccinated against the flu.

It's valid, just not fair.

[bennymac]

Now could you compare it to the flu (in terms of severity) if the population were 100% vaccinated and boosted?

You can as a hypothetical sure.

Keeping in mind lots of variables like:

- cost to immunize everyone for the flu vs covid
- cost to prevent outbreaks and transmission amongst vulnerable people/settings like long term care homes
- costs of hospitalizations and care for breakthrough infections
- rates of long term complications amongst survivors of breakthrough infections
- costs for caring for survivors with long term complications
- death rates in breakthrough infections
- cost of monitoring in society for outbreaks (seasonal versus year round)
- cost of vaccine development for variants of concern
etc etc etc

Yes in an individual anecdotal case one could experience omicron as a similar infection to the flu. Or even a cold.

Why people think “oh that means this is the same as a cold or flu for society” shows a real lack of thought - the kind of “complex” thought we typically develop in the first 4 years of childhood.

[dunfree]

As soon as someone says omicron is just a cold or flu you can discount their ability to think critically because that comparison is so obviously wrong you could explain it to a 5 year old and they’d understand it.

Jack has 100 apples. Jill has 2000 apples. Who has more apples?

they like to pretend the flu doesn’t cause problems for hospitals. They are stupid, and it’s a badge of honor.

[SumJongGuy]

Now could you compare it to the flu (in terms of severity) if the population were 100% vaccinated and boosted?

Like I said... only when the number of people hospitalized for the flu equals or exceeds the number of people hospitalized for COVID can anyone start to say "it's just like the flu". Right now it's still like 100 COVID patients for every flu patient or something like that.

[bennymac]

I get that people are tired. And 100% I agree we could be doing a better job looking after kids and small businesses during this.

But it’s disingenuous to make those arguments and then lace it with “it’s just a cold or flu”. Either you’re doing that on purpose despite knowing it’s bullshit or you haven’t taken a single step beyond your own personal experience to look at what’s happening. Neither is admirable.

[skiskiskiskiski]

I know the pandemic isn't over, but for god's sake, can we start moving our little ones toward more normalcy? I've been super cautious with them this whole time, but with two years of data and with vaccinations available to everyone in the US (5+) that wants one, I feel ready to change my tune a bit.

The kids just had RSV and it SUCKED! Yet, we've spent two years testing them, masking and keeping them out of school every time a sniffle comes up, trying to protect them from Covid. Yet, almost every kid under 6 I know who's had Covid has had somewhere between nothing and a regular cold and they aren't even vaccinated yet. Obviously, there are some exceptions, but there will always be. Remember that the flu is also super dangerous for the under 2 set and we've never taken any real measure to protect them in schools.

Under 5 hospitalization rate:
RSV - .5 to 2 %
Omicron - .015% (and that's 4x higher than for kids 5-17)

Just because RSV sucks more for the under 5 set than covid doesn't mean a five year kid having covid doesn't have a bigger impact on society.

We are connected. Kid with covid gives it to other kids and teacher.

Kids and teacher gives it to their families.

Some kids live with high risk people or have parents that work with high risk people.

We are all connected.

Masks help a lot.

[funkendrenchman]

Just because RSV sucks more for the under 5 set than covid doesn't mean a five year kid having covid doesn't have a bigger impact on society.

We are connected. Kid with covid gives it to other kids and teacher.

Kids and teacher gives it to their families.

Some kids live with high risk people or have parents that work with high risk people.

We are all connected.

Masks help a lot.

Same thing can happen with RSV and the flu.
Did we ask kids to mask at school so they didn't spread the flu to their infant sibling?
There will ALWAYS be a vulnerable high risk population. Since vaccinations, that population has shrunk considerably. (I'm not counting the vaccine holdouts). KN95s and N95s do a great job protecting that population if they are in a situation where they feel exposed.

[The AD]

Same thing can happen with RSV and the flu.
Did we ask kids to mask at school so they didn't spread the flu to their infant sibling?
There will ALWAYS be a vulnerable high risk population. Since vaccinations, that population has shrunk considerably. (I'm not counting the vaccine holdouts). KN95s and N95s do a great job protecting that population if they are in a situation where they feel exposed.

We didn't, but maybe we should have? I think it would be pretty awesome if going forward people masked during flu outbreaks.

We certainly don't want anyone who knows they've got the flu to attend school.

[oldnew_guy]

You can as a hypothetical sure.

Keeping in mind lots of variables like:

- cost to immunize everyone for the flu vs covid
- cost to prevent outbreaks and transmission amongst vulnerable people/settings like long term care homes
- costs of hospitalizations and care for breakthrough infections
- rates of long term complications amongst survivors of breakthrough infections
- costs for caring for survivors with long term complications
- death rates in breakthrough infections
- cost of monitoring in society for outbreaks (seasonal versus year round)
- cost of vaccine development for variants of concern
etc etc etc

Yes in an individual anecdotal case one could experience omicron as a similar infection to the flu. Or even a cold.

Why people think “oh that means this is the same as a cold or flu for society” shows a real lack of thought - the kind of “complex” thought we typically develop in the first 4 years of childhood.

I don’t get the “it’s the flu” thing. Maybe the data will come out showing the risk of long term CoVID has gone down, but in the meantime I’m not interested in getting it.

[oldnew_guy]

We didn't, but maybe we should have? I think it would be pretty awesome if going forward people masked during flu outbreaks.

We certainly don't want anyone who knows they've got the flu to attend school.

Even more amazing would be if sick people just didn’t come to work because they had sick leave and were expected to use it.

[funkendrenchman]

Even more amazing would be if sick people just didn’t come to work because they had sick leave and were expected to use it.

That would be awesome. What's not awesome is having kids stay home for 5-7 days every time they get any illness. No one has enough sick time to cover the amount of days that would be missed by childhood illnesses.

[riser4]

I wish I was retired and could grocery shop when the retired people do. I'm taking a carryover vacation day from last year that I had to use this month or lose. So I went grocery shopping. Big mistake because now I am spoilt. The store was not packed like on the weekends. The shelves were as well stocked as they're going to be these days, unlike weekends and weeknights. And mask compliance was around 90%, unlike weekends when it is more like 25%, or weeknights when it's about 50%. FML.

[The AD]

Even more amazing would be if sick people just didn’t come to work because they had sick leave and were expected to use it.

I think there's hope. At least a lot more people are used to working from home now.

[seano732]

I wish I was retired and could grocery shop when the retired people do. I'm taking a carryover vacation day from last year that I had to use this month or lose. So I went grocery shopping. Big mistake because now I am spoilt. The store was not packed like on the weekends. The shelves were as well stocked as they're going to be these days, unlike weekends and weeknights. And mask compliance was around 90%, unlike weekends when it is more like 25%, or weeknights when it's about 50%. FML.

Hey, I got you Riser…..I will be your designated shopper/ shipper, for a small fee…..

[riser4]

Hey, I got you Riser…..I will be your designated shopper/ shipper, for a small fee…..

Thanks.

[skiskiskiskiski]

Same thing can happen with RSV and the flu.
Did we ask kids to mask at school so they didn't spread the flu to their infant sibling?
There will ALWAYS be a vulnerable high risk population. Since vaccinations, that population has shrunk considerably. (I'm not counting the vaccine holdouts). KN95s and N95s do a great job protecting that population if they are in a situation where they feel exposed.

Not on the level that covid has. Sorry. You're wrong here.

Masking and staying home when ill is definitely a good practice that should continue with covid and other illnesses.

[Harry]

I've repeated ad nauseum...

^^ THIS ^^ is your whole problem.

Rather than state your case and move on, you keep repeating yourself post after post after post. STFU already.



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