To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[dunfree]

You misspelled pragmatist.

You keep misusing words, because pretending that all we need to be is polite and offer carrots is not pragmatic at this point in the pandemic.

but with the US this happens a lot because of bithsiderism. People think the opposite of Alex Jones or Hannity is “leftie” when it’s Goop.

[jono]

Repetitive, unfruitful debate is the opposite of pragmatic.

Put numbers to it. How many people are going to get a vaccine because of a mandate and how soon will they get it? How many of those would have gotten the vaccine without the mandate and how many of those who aren't subject to a mandate will decide not to get one who were otherwise on the fence?

Can there be a broader version than what's already been done?

[bennymac]

Vaccine appointments jump up when mandates are put in place. These appointments are by being filled by people who could have gotten the vaccine earlier. No I’m not gonna post any links. If you are here you have the same google access I do. Feel free to discount this post if the lack of links discredits it for you.

[DougW]

How would you answer this question. I have been wasting time in a battle of wits all morning with 3 anti vaxxers


DougW if everything the government is saying and it is deadly as it's made out to be answer me this question. Why has the homeless population not been wiped out? I know there's not many in Golden but in Vernon we have over 250 identified homeless people living in the streets. I live in downtown Vernon and I walk and talk to the homeless people on a regular basis. They do not wear a mask they do not social distance if they get sick they are not able to self isolate. They share needles drugs pipes and live in camps of up to 15 people. So if just one homeless person in Vernon got covid it should affect there whole community yet it is not �� How is this possible???

answer so far Are you trying to be obtuse ? Its not a great mystery, your sample size is 250 of various ages so with the death rate for covid-19 applied its entirely likely that you would have no deaths in that population. How would even tell if they were sick?

running out of patience, ...

[jono]

How would you answer this question. I have been wasting time in a battle of wits all morning with 3 anti vaxxers


DougW if everything the government is saying and it is deadly as it's made out to be answer me this question. Why has the homeless population not been wiped out? I know there's not many in Golden but in Vernon we have over 250 identified homeless people living in the streets. I live in downtown Vernon and I walk and talk to the homeless people on a regular basis. They do not wear a mask they do not social distance if they get sick they are not able to self isolate. They share needles drugs pipes and live in camps of up to 15 people. So if just one homeless person in Vernon got covid it should affect there whole community yet it is not �� How is this possible???

No one with COVID has exposed them yet.

[Ted Striker]

I don't offend easily, but I'm pretty fucking offended by these shitforbrains equating public health measures that amount to little more than an inconvenience, and are literally intended to save lives, to the Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

Setting aside their complete ignorance of history, the self-entitled tone-deafness, and victim complexes that ostensibly elevates them to a persecuted class is disgusting.

[Ted Striker]

How would you answer this question.

...I walk and talk to the homeless people on a regular basis. They do not wear a mask they do not social distance if they get sick they are not able to self isolate. They share needles drugs pipes and live in camps of up to 15 people. So if just one homeless person in Vernon got covid it should affect there whole community yet it is not �� How is this possible???

Tell them Meth cures Covid.

[jono]

I don't offend easily, but I'm pretty fucking offended by these shitforbrains equating public health measures that amount to little more than an inconvenience, and are literally intended to save lives, to the Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

Setting aside their complete ignorance of history, the self-entitled tone-deafness, and victim complexes that ostensibly elevates them to a persecuted class is disgusting.

Yup. People love bringing up how the Nazis treated the Jews but no one mentions how the Germans (and all their neighbors) treated the Nazis and their collaborators. Most were never welcomed back into society and I can't think of a single expression of sympathy for them over it. Somehow today's collaborators expect otherwise.

[The AD]

answer so far Are you trying to be obtuse ? Its not a great mystery, your sample size is 250 of various ages so with the death rate for covid-19 applied its entirely likely that you would have no deaths in that population. How would even tell if they were sick?

My question would be: how do they know the homeless haven't been affected? Are they keeping that close of an eye on them? I'd be willing to bet the homeless population HAS been affected, and probably more so than the general population.

It makes about as much sense as saying "every time I go outside I still see lots of people walking around. Shouldn't they all be sick in bed?" Go to a hospital ICU and see if your perspective changes at all.

[dunfree]

How would you answer this question. I have been wasting time in a battle of wits all morning with 3 anti vaxxers


DougW if everything the government is saying and it is deadly as it's made out to be answer me this question. Why has the homeless population not been wiped out? I know there's not many in Golden but in Vernon we have over 250 identified homeless people living in the streets. I live in downtown Vernon and I walk and talk to the homeless people on a regular basis. They do not wear a mask they do not social distance if they get sick they are not able to self isolate. They share needles drugs pipes and live in camps of up to 15 people. So if just one homeless person in Vernon got covid it should affect there whole community yet it is not �� How is this possible???

answer so far Are you trying to be obtuse ? Its not a great mystery, your sample size is 250 of various ages so with the death rate for covid-19 applied its entirely likely that you would have no deaths in that population. How would even tell if they were sick?

running out of patience, ...

just block them. Those aren’t serious arguments, they know it’s bullshit. Once you convince them in this point, they’ll just find more bullshit.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/fa...-the-homeless/

[Ted Striker]

Ask them if they actually know any of the homeless people personally, or if they're just nameless wandering annoyances.

[SumJongGuy]

How would you answer this question. I have been wasting time in a battle of wits all morning with 3 anti vaxxers


DougW if everything the government is saying and it is deadly as it's made out to be answer me this question. Why has the homeless population not been wiped out? I know there's not many in Golden but in Vernon we have over 250 identified homeless people living in the streets. I live in downtown Vernon and I walk and talk to the homeless people on a regular basis. They do not wear a mask they do not social distance if they get sick they are not able to self isolate. They share needles drugs pipes and live in camps of up to 15 people. So if just one homeless person in Vernon got covid it should affect there whole community yet it is not �� How is this possible???

answer so far Are you trying to be obtuse ? Its not a great mystery, your sample size is 250 of various ages so with the death rate for covid-19 applied its entirely likely that you would have no deaths in that population. How would even tell if they were sick?

running out of patience, ...

Don't see a reference to Golden but I've seen several pop up vaxx sites right down where the homeless folks hang out in my town.. and see plenty of references to other places like this..
Covid vaccines rolled out for Gold Coast homeless, plan for mobile clinics on horizon

They were also offering $100 Visa cards here last wave. Pretty sure that would get MOST of them to roll up their sleeve (several times LOL).

[MagnificentUnicorn]

OMG. That's quite LITERALLY exactly what I was saying at the time too. But I got bashed for wanting to wait for more data. See my point? When certain people like them say something, they're being "scientific" with their approach. So wise. So bold. When I say quite literally the same thing, it's going against "teh SiEnTS!"

To be fair, you do have a history of proving your own stupidity

Show us the post where you literally said the exact same thing at the same time. I’m curious.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

So hypothetically if trump had won, he'd have taken credit for the vaccine and the blue states would be in full lockdown adamantly refusing the vaccine and the red states would still be open and highly vaccinated.

crazy world we live in.

Nice try but I don’t think so. Anyone with marginal intelligence would get the vaccine based on a scientific consensus. I’m not sure that Trump knows how vaccines work and taking credit for the vaccine would be laughable for any candidate.


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[Ted Striker]

Somehow today's collaborators expect otherwise.

Do they? I get the feeling they'd be fine with making Libmerica and Conmerica permanent.

[Mazderati]

Put numbers to it. How many people are going to get a vaccine because of a mandate and how soon will they get it?

It's funny you want a pointed response yet dodge the same. The answer is a consequential number. And, they would get it sooner than if no mandates were in place. Which is what counts during a worldwide pandemic. Offer your tax discount to everyone vaccinated at the end of the year. Penalize those who are not.

How many of those would have gotten the vaccine without the mandate and how many of those who aren't subject to a mandate will decide not to get one who were otherwise on the fence?

Don't care. There has been ample time to get a vaccine voluntarily. I'm not concerned about the opinion of someone who made a conscious decision to not participate in society in good faith, especially when it comes to public health.

Can there be a broader version than what's already been done?

Something you can keep debating about after mandates are rolled out.

[Deebased]

I don't offend easily, but I'm pretty fucking offended by these shitforbrains equating public health measures that amount to little more than an inconvenience, and are literally intended to save lives, to the Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

Setting aside their complete ignorance of history, the self-entitled tone-deafness, and victim complexes that ostensibly elevates them to a persecuted class is disgusting.

History...

https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/...y-cause-typhus

Its disingenuous to reframe how the Nazi's disenfranchised the jews without including Typhus.

[jono]

It's funny you want a pointed response yet dodge the same. The answer is a consequential number. And, they would get it sooner than if no mandates were in place. Which is what counts during a worldwide pandemic. Offer your tax discount to everyone vaccinated at the end of the year. Penalize those who are not.




Don't care. There has been ample time to get a vaccine voluntarily. I'm not concerned about the opinion of someone who made a conscious decision to not participate in society in good faith, especially when it comes to public health.


Something you can keep debating about after mandates are rolled out.

The number is more than just consequential, it's everything. The approach with the best numbers is the right one. So why aren't you giving a number? Is it too speculative? Come on, you asked, don't be afraid.

The tax credit I described is not to be offered at the end of the year, it can be calculated and paid immediately upon vaccination based on that day's date. Or, critically, it can be caught up if needed at any time including the end of the year for those who were vaccinated before it was offered. The whole point is to discourage waiting, including waiting to see the final amount. In OR they've been offering ever higher rewards and people are now waiting to see how high they'll go. Wrong approach.

The reason I asked the last question is that if the answer is no we are about to see how big the lasting reservoir of "nevers" will be. If it's too big we have a lasting problem.

[jono]

Do they? I get the feeling they'd be fine with making Libmerica and Conmerica permanent.

They see themselves as the Jews instead of the collaborators. You don't think they're desperate for that certified victimhood? They crave it fortnightly [smartass]!

[seano732]

Narrarator: “ It is, in fact, too big”…….

[jono]

Narrarator: “ It is, in fact, too big”…….

I read that in the narrator's voice from Idiocracy. It sounded right.

[seano732]

I read that in the narrator's voice from Idiocracy. It sounded right.

Lulz……

[Mazderati]

The number is more than just consequential, it's everything. The approach with the best numbers is the right one. So why aren't you giving a number? Is it too speculative? Come on, you asked, don't be afraid.

The tax credit I described is not to be offered at the end of the year, it can be calculated and paid immediately upon vaccination based on that day's date. Or, critically, it can be caught up if needed at any time including the end of the year for those who were vaccinated before it was offered. The whole point is to discourage waiting, including waiting to see the final amount. In OR they've been offering ever higher rewards and people are now waiting to see how high they'll go. Wrong approach.

The reason I asked the last question is that if the answer is no we are about to see how big the lasting reservoir of "nevers" will be. If it's too big we have a lasting problem.

When I say consequential I mean consequential greater than 0. As in the opposite of small. What are you expecting? An actual number?

Forget the tax credit. That was throwing you a bone which - no surprise - you want to turn into a debate. People should be getting vaccinated regardless. The vaccine is already free.

Mandates don't have to be toothless.

[Ted Striker]

They see themselves as the Jews instead of the collaborators.

Yeah, I get that. I almost typed that they want their own Israel, but the potential for someone misunderstanding was too great.

The hubris of their idiotic misread is astounding.

[Deebased]

Nice try but I don’t think so. Anyone with marginal intelligence would get the vaccine based on a scientific consensus. I’m not sure that Trump knows how vaccines work and taking credit for the vaccine would be laughable for any candidate.


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You give the average person far too much credit.

The vaccine and c19 was politicized by both parties well before the election creating the guidelines of whom would follow what path.
Just look at all the dumbasses who wore masks outside while hiking this year or who still somehow think that vaccinated persons can't be super spreaders.