To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[schuss]

Uh oh. Watch out for the usual mob, dog.

This be Adolf Allerbush (fitting name)/bennymac/schuss/99% of this place when anybody suggest there juuuuuuust might be some nuance on any given topic:

Awwwww, I made the montucky salt list. I'm honored. Big words from someone that wouldn't know nuance if it hit them in the face.

[mcphee]

Uh oh. Watch out for the usual mob, dog.

This be Adolf Allerbush (fitting name)/bennymac/schuss/99% of this place when anybody suggest there juuuuuuust might be some nuance on any given topic:

oh wah wah wah. cry more.

I don't think anyone here has ever argued that the vaccine is 100% effective. It's well known that it's not a sterilization vaccine. Neither is the polio vaccine and look at it's effect on eradicating polio when enough people had it.

You still haven't made a coherent point regarding why you're still skeptical of this vaccine and mask usage after being given multiple reasons to do so from credible sources and Knowledgeable People On Here both nicely and not so nicely. You spout of a bunch of argumentative nonsense and dogshit analogies then get roasted for it. So is your whole point to just dig your heels in because your feelings got hurt on a ski forum?

Fuck your feelings as your shit kicking-take no shit from no one crew would say.

[paulster2626]

https://youtu.be/Uo9LtVl_GQ4


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Might be my confirmation bias, but he didn't blame ALL the deaths on the bad guy, just the alarmingly high total count. He even goes on to say that 200,000 more deaths are predicted, but if dumbfuck orange man would just tell people to wear masks, it would cut that in half.

Dunno where you got him blaming every single death on the guy - maybe just the poor title of the video?

Anyway, water under the bridge now I guess. Go get your vaccine.

[jono]

There is zero definitive evidence saying vaxed carry and transmit less viral load with Delta.

This is why you're getting lots of evidence presented to you. Pretty definitive evidence. You should have said the CDC didn't post evidence (or something), not that there isn't any. Regardless, it's not about spelling errors, it's about getting the record straight: the evidence says vaccinated people are less likely to spread disease.

Viral load at one moment in time is not remotely close to being the whole picture. The CDC should update their communication, but there's nothing new about that.

ETA: I think the issue you're having with the apparent indecisiveness of their language stems from them trying to convert statistical probabilities for the large population to individual-level advice. It's not an effective way to state it, but they're inserting qualifying words to make those statements true for any given individual. It's pretty well understood that for the greater population vaccination reduces spread. Still, one individual can be unusual, so while the same things probably apply to any given person there will be exceptions. Your personal odds of being that exception are low.

[SumJongGuy]

Vaccinated people are far less likely to get the disease... therefore vaccinated people (as a whole) are not spreading it as much. It's only the rarest and most extreme breakthrough cases where a FEW vaccinated people are infected AND shedding at rates similar to unvaccinated people.

[Skidog]

Vaccinated people are far less likely to get the disease... therefore vaccinated people (as a whole) are not spreading it as much. It's only the rarest and most extreme breakthrough cases where a FEW vaccinated people are infected AND shedding at rates similar to unvaccinated people.

got it....CDC publishing "misinformation" Thanks Doc.

[jono]

got it....CDC publishing "misinformation" Thanks Doc.

Or you could be a dick about it. Always a popular option.

[Skidog]

Or you could be a dick about it. Always a popular option.

or...

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...-mass/2486308/

[Skidog]

Or you could be a dick about it. Always a popular option.

im a dick? Ha...I was called out for posting information that shows the claims that the delta viral load IS, in fact, a REAL issue. Even when vaxxed. I posted information directly from the CDC website.

Then someone cherry picked OTHER data, that I never made comment about, ignoring the point, which again is TRUE....

But yeah, im the dick....ignore the point and redirect....its the TGR way.

[paulster2626]

Mu is believed to be more contagious and more evasive of existing antibodies. Hopefully that means the vax efficacy rate doesn't go all the way to 0.

I literally have not heard this on any credible news source, only off-hand comments on forums like this one.

Quick google search confirms my statement - Delta is the king, and Mu appears to not be able to compete. Mu was detected in the USA in what, March or something? I may be mistaken on that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/07/mu-c...oncerning.html

Mu, also known by scientists as B.1.621, is increasing its prevalence in some South American countries but is also decreasing in other regions of the world, especially where the delta variant is already circulating, she said.

Any new virus that emerges has to be able to compete with the “best of class,” and right now that is delta, said Dr. Mike Ryan, head of the WHO’s health emergencies program. The delta variant tends to “outcompete” other variants, like mu, he said.

It doesn’t matter if a new variant has genetic changes that allow it to evade the protection of vaccines if it can transmit efficiently, Ryan said.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...-much-to-worry

One of the newest variants of COVID-19, known as Mu, has spread to 42 countries, but early studies suggest that it is less easily transmitted than the dangerous Delta variant, which has triggered a resurgence of the pandemic in the U.S. and many other countries.

Mu quickly became the dominant strain in Colombia, where it was first detected in January, but in the U.S., where the Delta virus is dominant, it has not spread significantly. After reaching a peak at the end of June, the prevalence of the Mu variant in the U.S. has steadily declined.

Everything I can find basically says the same thing.

[buttahflake]

im a dick?
But yeah, im the dick.....

Heheheh

[MultiVerse]

im a dick? Ha...I was called out for posting information that shows the claims that the delta viral load IS, in fact, a REAL issue. Even when vaxxed. I posted information directly from the CDC website.

Then someone cherry picked OTHER data, that I never made comment about, ignoring the point, which again is TRUE....

But yeah, im the dick....ignore the point and redirect....its the TGR way.

What was your point? Because your response is a non sequitur to the fact vaccinated people transmit less than unvaccinated people. Your own CDC link said so. You keep prattling on about the "CDC publishing "misinformation" or people using "it when it suits you and when it doesn't you'll find some other study to refute" but nobody is refuting anything. This is your own source:

"Unvaccinated people remain the greatest concern: The greatest risk of transmission is among unvaccinated people who are much more likely to get infected, and therefore transmit the virus. Fully vaccinated people get COVID-19 (known as breakthrough infections) less often than unvaccinated people."


The fact that viral loads are similar when breakthrough infections happen has been discussed by so many people already. It's not like you're arguing about anything people don't already know. In addition to looking at their own data, the CDC also relies on "obscure studies" you're whinging about.

[Skidog]

What was your point? Because your response is a non sequitur to the fact vaccinated people transmit less than unvaccinated people. Your own CDC link said so. The fact that viral loads are similar when breakthrough infections happen has been discussed by so many people already. It's not like you said anything people didn't already know.

DID not...your reading comprehension sucks ass... anytime the words "MAY" or "likely" are used in a sentence it means the answer is not clear.

Back to 3rd grade for you.

you in fact argued I was spreading misinformation stating that the jury is still VERY out on viral loads with DELTA and vaxxed people. "MAY" "LIKELY".....thats what the CDC website SAYS...period.

[buttahflake]

Yeah, you a dick!

[cat in january]

Unless you and your primary care doctor agree you have a condition that meets a designated condition or you belong to a religion with long held medical beliefs GET THE SHOT FOLKS. We all take medicine when needed only the rarest of snowflakes eats all organic food. We put shit we have no idea about in our body. Get over it.

Our medical staffs (my wife) are burning out hard. Covid is hurting our economy hard and in ten years it will be easy to separate the smart/fortunate countries who responded aggressively with vaccines. We are fortunate let’s be patriotic and smart and do the right thing. Beyond some medical conditions and those religions that would die from an appendicitis rather than go to hospital I don’t see a rational reason not to get the shot. Just selfish don’t want to get poked or choosing ground to make a stand on that is not connected to coherent philosophy

[Skidog]

Unless you and your primary care doctor agree you have a condition that meets a designated condition or you belong to a religion with long held medical beliefs GET THE SHOT FOLKS. We all take medicine when needed only the rarest of snowflakes eats all organic food. We put shit we have no idea about in our body. Get over it.

Our medical staffs (my wife) are burning out hard. Covid is hurting our economy hard and in ten years it will be easy to separate the smart/fortunate countries who responded aggressively with vaccines. We are fortunate let’s be patriotic and smart and do the right thing. Beyond some medical conditions and those religions that would die from an appendicitis rather than go to hospital I don’t see a rational reason not to get the shot. Just selfish don’t want to get poked or choosing ground to make a stand on that is not connected to coherent philosophy

I agree, and it sucks POTUS had to take the route he has....the division in this country is only growing deeper by the day, maybe minute.

Anyone else looking for govt jobs? Gotta believe there might be quite a few openings really soon.

[jono]

im a dick? Ha...I was called out for posting information that shows the claims that the delta viral load IS, in fact, a REAL issue. Even when vaxxed. I posted information directly from the CDC website.

Then someone cherry picked OTHER data, that I never made comment about, ignoring the point, which again is TRUE....

But yeah, im the dick....ignore the point and redirect....its the TGR way.

Something like that, I guess. You were responded to in two completely different ways. One of which was plenty respectful and the other, which you've focused on. Look at what I quoted from you on the last page. That's you being wrong. It's not the end of the world. You can just cop to that and move on instead of breaking your cock in the vise. MF "defending you" isn't doing you any favors.

[MultiVerse]

DID not...your reading comprehension sucks ass... anytime the words "MAY" or "likely" are used in a sentence it means the answer is not clear.

Back to 3rd grade for you.

you in fact argued I was spreading misinformation stating that the jury is still VERY out on viral loads with DELTA and vaxxed people. "MAY" "LIKELY".....thats what the CDC website SAYS...period.

lol. The point you keep missing is even if viral loads are the same when breakthrough infections happen in vax'd people the preponderance of evidence shows they in all likelihood transmit less than unvaccinated people. To recap:

1. Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected
2. Viral loads in vaccinated individuals fall quicker
3. Even at similar viral loads, culture samples show less viable virus in vaccinated individuals
4. Vaccination minimizes symptoms
5. Studies also show a reduction of asymptomatic infection with vaccines
6. Empirical evidence suggests vaccination reduces transmission from health care workers to members of their households

[buttahflake]

Do I have to take a piss test for a government job? I think I’d like to be an air traffic controller

[old_newguy]

I agree, and it sucks POTUS had to take the route he has....the division in this country is only growing deeper by the day, maybe minute.

Anyone else looking for govt jobs? Gotta believe there might be quite a few openings really soon.

I personally will be amazed if people walk away from their gov. benefits over this.

And if they do, I sort of question whether they should be doing the sort of work government workers do.

[Skidog]

lol. The point you keep missing is even if viral loads are the same when breakthrough infections happen in vax'd people the preponderance of evidence shows they in all likelihood transmit less than unvaccinated people. To recap:

1. Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected
2. Viral load in vaccinated individuals fall quicker
3. Even at similar viral loads, culture samples show less viable virus in vaccinated individuals
4. Vaccination minimizes symptoms
5. Studies also show a reduction of asymptomatic infection with vaccines
6. Empirical evidence suggests vaccination reduces transmission from health care workers to members of their households

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...-mass/2486308/

ill post it again for those slow on the uptake....40% sounds like a lot of breakthroughs...

[old_newguy]

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...-mass/2486308/

ill post it again for those slow on the uptake....40% sounds like a lot of breakthroughs...

Huh?

“ The breakthrough cases represent just a small percentage -- about 0.53% -- of the more than 4.5 million people who have been vaccinated and the deaths an even smaller percentage -- just 0.004%”

[MultiVerse]

Slow on the uptake? People are all to aware breakthroughs happen.

Huh?

“ The breakthrough cases represent just a small percentage -- about 0.53% -- of the more than 4.5 million people who have been vaccinated and the deaths an even smaller percentage -- just 0.004%”

His article says 40% of reported cases in recent weeks are breakthroughs. This is due in large part to the much discussed base rate fallacy. Massachusetts has one of the highest vaccination rates in the country so naturally there's going to be a lot of breakthrough cases. He's just rehashing the same old arguments.

It's counterintuitive at first, but makes total sense when you think about it. The higher the vax rate the higher the breakthrough cases but overall lower number of cases:

Attachment 384945

We also know the unvaccinated are less likely to get tested unless they have a severe case.

[SumJongGuy]

or...

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...-mass/2486308/

Or, MA has some of the strictest mask mandates in the nation. Let's see that data for Idaho, Mississippi, etc..

[Skidog]

Huh?

“ The breakthrough cases represent just a small percentage -- about 0.53% -- of the more than 4.5 million people who have been vaccinated and the deaths an even smaller percentage -- just 0.004%”

did you miss this part?

Breakthrough infections again accounted for about 40% of all cases reported in Massachusetts last week.