To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[altasnob]

What do you think about a private business denying service because of their owners personal beliefs? I see very little difference between this and say a bakery refusing to make a wedding cake for a potential client because that client is gay.

I don't like it, but it is the law of the land. The optics here just couldn't be worse. This isn't a restaurant or a bakery, it's a COVID testing facility. It would be perfectly fine for the owner of the lab, on her own personal time, to voice her opposition to Owen's stance and do what ever lobbying for her cause she wants to.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Credit Arlo Guthrie



Can you put a digital vaccine passport on a flip phone? Asking for a friend.

I certainly support the non digital option in concept but it is problematic. A physical vaccine card would need to be hard to fake and available quickly to everyone who wants one right away. How long does it take to get a new DL or passport? Why did the Feds give the states so much time to roll out RealID? And what happens when the vaccine requirement changes--for boosters or for a vaccine for a new variant. Everybody has to get a new card. The alternative is to accept the CDC card as valid proof of vaccination, go after counterfeiters hard, and accept that some people will get away with faking it. Just like there are lots of people driving around without DLs. I think we'll wind up with the latter, with digital cards for those who want one.

And it's worth emphasizing--again--that vaccine mandates do and should apply only to discretionary activities, the kind of activities that people who cant afford phones tend not to do.

And btw--can you put a digital vaccine ID on a burner? Asking for a friend.

I think it's a lot easier than anyone wants to admit. Let's say it's tied to your DL or state issued ID. As you get various vaccinations your record is updated in a database, similar to where we log peoples moving infractions. When you go to present your ID the database is queried and wherever you are at in the course of getting vaccinations (i.e., dose 1, dose 2, booster) is provided. Private business can set their own requirements for entry, if any. Now, if you are ID less then that's where the state can issue complementary IDs so it's not a burden on the poor. If you're a minor it is understood that your parents vaccination status is going to be sufficient.

I need to spend some time looking at the stats of what percentage of the population has no state issued ID. It has to be relatively small.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I don't like it, but it is the law of the land. The optics here just couldn't be worse. This isn't a restaurant or a bakery, it's a COVID testing facility. It would be perfectly fine for the owner of the lab, on her own personal time, to voice her opposition to Owen's stance and do what ever lobbying for her cause she wants to.

Sure, it's a testing facility, one where she would've not worn a mask into, and so the owners said "thanks but no thanks. you can go behind City Hall and get a test, not a problem". she refused. You're putting that on the testing center? seems like she had a viable option and refused it for the purpose of generating publicity to fool people into thinking she was wronged.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I don't like it, but it is the law of the land. The optics here just couldn't be worse. This isn't a restaurant or a bakery, it's a COVID testing facility. It would be perfectly fine for the owner of the lab, on her own personal time, to voice her opposition to Owen's stance and do what ever lobbying for her cause she wants to.

Oh, now it’s the optics…

How about it being perfectly fine for her to do what she did with her privately owned business? Are we arguing liberty and rights or is it altaslob’s personal opinion about the optics? It’s hard to know from post to post because it’s constantly changing.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Mofro261]

ETHICS


Chapter One: INTRODUCTION


Section 9. Ethics and Law


Morality- rules of right conduct concerning matters of greater importance. Violations of such can bring disturbance to individual conscience and social sanctions.


Law- rules which are enforced by society. Violations may bring a loss of or reduction in freedom and possessions.


What is the relation of law to morality? They are not the same. You can not equate the two. Just because something is immoral does not make it illegal and just because something is illegal it does not make it immoral.


Not all immoral acts are illegal.


Some immoral acts are legally permissible. Can you think of any?
Some immoral acts are legally obligatory. Can you think of any?
Not all illegal acts are immoral.


Some illegal acts are morally permissible. Can you think of any?
Some illegal acts are morally obligatory. Can you think of any?
You can probable think of many examples to support this view once you think about it.


==============================================


Things that are illegal but are thought to be moral (for many)!


Drinking under age.


Driving over the speed limit.


Smoking marijuana.


Cheating on a tax return.


Splitting a cable signal to send it to more than one television.


=================================================


People do not think of themselves or of others as being immoral for breaking these laws.


Can you think of other examples??


=================================================


Things that are immoral (for many) but are not illegal.


Cheating on your spouse.


Breaking a promise to a friend.


Using abortion as a birth control measure.


People can not be arrested or punished with imprisonment or fines for doing these things.


Can you think of other examples??


=================================================


What is the relation of morality to law? Well, when enough people think that something is immoral they will work to have a law that will forbid it and punish those that do it.


When enough people think that something is moral, they will work to have a law that forbids it and punishes those that do it repealed.


=================================================


Proceed to the next section of the chapter by clicking here>> section.


© Copyright Stephen O Sullivan and Philip A. Pecorino 2002. All Rights reserved.

[dunfree]

Lol. Splitting a cable signal.

[Skidog]

I think it's a lot easier than anyone wants to admit. Let's say it's tied to your DL or state issued ID. As you get various vaccinations your record is updated in a database, similar to where we log peoples moving infractions. When you go to present your ID the database is queried and wherever you are at in the course of getting vaccinations (i.e., dose 1, dose 2, booster) is provided. Private business can set their own requirements for entry, if any. Now, if you are ID less then that's where the state can issue complementary IDs so it's not a burden on the poor. If you're a minor it is understood that your parents vaccination status is going to be sufficient.

I need to spend some time looking at the stats of what percentage of the population has no state issued ID. It has to be relatively small.

looks like about 7% according to here.

http://www.projectvote.org/wp-conten...ruary-2015.pdf

[altasnob]

Sure, it's a testing facility, one where she would've not worn a mask into, and so the owners said "thanks but no thanks. you can go behind City Hall and get a test, not a problem". she refused.

Where do you read that? If there is a mask policy and she refuses, absolutely the business can and should refuse service. But here they canceled her appointment via email. Also, I haven't read anything that she refused to take them up on the back alley testing at City Hall. Not sure that test would have satisfied whatever reason she wanted the test. The lab is owned by Rocky Mountain Labs in Englewood, CO. They opened a testing site in Aspen to serve the needs of the community because, as others have noted, they don't have Walgreens and other facilities for testing like more populated locations. And they have a huge demand for tests because Aspen.

[XXX-er]

[QUOTE=Adolf Allerbush;6395734 I see very little difference between this and say a bakery refusing to make a wedding cake for a potential client because that client is gay.[/QUOTE]

I'm ok with gay, its the snowboarders i can't tolerate

[Toadman]

People get denied non-emergency medical service all the time, for mundane reasons like inability to pay.

Not to mention these days people needing non-emergency medical care can't get it because the ICU's are all full of unvaccinated, unmaksed COVID deniers.

[bagtagley]

Wrong or not?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_...nt_controversy

Nothing wrong with The Red Hen. Place is fantastic.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Where do you read that? If there is a mask policy and she refuses, absolutely the business can and should refuse service. But here they canceled her appointment via email. Also, I haven't read anything that she refused to take them up on the back alley testing at City Hall. Not sure that test would have satisfied whatever reason she wanted the test. The lab is owned by Rocky Mountain Labs in Englewood, CO. They opened a testing site in Aspen to serve the needs of the community because, as others have noted, they don't have Walgreens and other facilities for testing like more populated locations. And they have a huge demand for tests because Aspen.

She has stated multiple times via numerous media outlets that she is anti-mask and anti-vax. The optional testing approach is reported here for one: https://www.postindependent.com/news...candace-owens/ If she didn't refuse it why did she make report getting denied access to testing? She was denied access to a testing facility she, based on her previous statements, would have refused to comply with their rules for entry. She was offered an option, she evidently didn't want that option and decided to make her situation public. Crocodile tears as they say and she's good at it. Fools a lot of people. We need less people like her.

[Ted Striker]

Wrong or not?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_...nt_controversy

I'll bite on that one

Was SHS forced into her role as director of propaganda? Was someone holding a gun to her head? Was she born that way? Is professional liar a protected class? Did she starve because she didn't eat there? Was she damaged in any way professionally or financially? (except for maybe the gas it took to drive home)

That said, I wouldn't have done it if I owned the restaurant. It's fanning the culture war flames.

SHS didn't go to the Red Hen for anything other that a meal. Owens et al are actively seeking these situations to generate outrage porn.

[Adolf Allerbush]

looks like about 7% according to here.

http://www.projectvote.org/wp-conten...ruary-2015.pdf

I do think it's more of a burden on low income and minorities, which is not fair. That said, I'm tired of this pandemic and want to figure out ways to encourage people to get vaccinated.

[Percy Rideout]

Sure, it's a testing facility, one where she would've not worn a mask into, and so the owners said "thanks but no thanks. you can go behind City Hall and get a test, not a problem". she refused. You're putting that on the testing center? seems like she had a viable option and refused it for the purpose of generating publicity to fool people into thinking she was wronged.

You're getting some important facts wrong, so ill help clarify:

1. She never made an appointment to enter the testing facility, it was at her house. This isn't the first unvaxxed person they've tested in their own home, and likely have a plan in place for the situation. Also remember we are talking about a COVID testing facility and not a bakery here. We are in a pandemic where private businesses have been consistently told(forced) what to do via government mandates. I don't like it one bit, but these are the fucked up times we live in. I bet the state government gets involved with this one, and gives the testing center a slap on the wrist.

2. re: City Hall testing option. They're slow. The results are slow. The testing lady cunt even referenced this important detail in her snarky email, knowing a lack of a result will keep Owens from attending JAS. Remember, Owens is going to Jazz Aspen Snowmass which requires a negative test or proof of vaccination for a venue that is ENTIRELY OUTDOORS. Owens even references that she is going to a local event in her e-mail response.

"They mail their tests to Texas and have inconsistent result times."

Also, googling the names of individuals who book tests with you in a medical environment is creepy and potentially illegal, right?

[altasnob]

She has stated multiple times via numerous media outlets that she is anti-mask and anti-vax. The optional testing approach is reported here for one: https://www.postindependent.com/news...candace-owens/ If she didn't refuse it why did she make report getting denied access to testing? She was denied access to a testing facility she, based on her previous statements, would have refused to comply with their rules for entry. She was offered an option, she evidently didn't want that option and decided to make her situation public.

As creepy as it sounds, I don't think there is anything illegal for the lab to google research a prospective customer. And when they see she was anti-mask, they could politely emailed her that she would be denied service should she fail to follow their mask rules (this would not have made headlines).

[Adolf Allerbush]

You're getting some important facts wrong, so ill help clarify:

1. She never made an appointment to enter the testing facility, it was at her house. This isn't the first unvaxxed person they've tested in their own home, and likely have a plan in place for the situation. Also remember we are talking about a COVID testing facility and not a bakery here. We are in a pandemic where private businesses have been consistently told(forced) what to do via government mandates. I don't like it one bit, but these are the fucked up times we live in. I bet the state government gets involved with this one, and gives the testing center a slap on the wrist.

2. re: City Hall testing option. They're slow. The results are slow. The testing lady cunt even referenced this important detail in her snarky email, knowing a lack of a result will keep Owens from attending JAS. Remember, Owens is going to Jazz Aspen Snowmass which requires a negative test or proof of vaccination for a venue that is ENTIRELY OUTDOORS. Owens even references that she is going to a local event in her e-mail response.

"They mail their tests to Texas and have inconsistent result times."

Also, googling the names of individuals who book tests with you in a medical environment is creepy and potentially illegal, right?

Regarding your first numbered item, her staff reported that they booked her a test at the facility:

Staff for Owens had registered her to be tested at the Hyman Avenue facility while she is in Aspen this week on a business vacation with her husband and baby boy

Regarding item #2: there are a lot of testing options these days. I investigated a lot of them, including self testing where you get your results within 48 hours. She did this as a publicity stunt geared to gin up reactions from conservatives and anti-vaxxers. It worked very well.

As creepy as it sounds, I don't think there is anything illegal for the lab to google research a prospective customer. And when they see she was anti-mask, they could politely emailed her that she would be denied service should she fail to follow their mask rules (this would not have made headlines).

Sure, absolutely. Owens could've also used any number of other testing options, including the one behind City Hall. She's wealthy, so cost is not an issue, any of those quick result self tests would've worked too. This was a publicity stunt and it worked very well.

[altasnob]

The owners of the lab say they haven't received any public funds. But Owens seems to disagree. I am not sure why this matters? A restaurant can receive public subsidy from the government and still deny service based on personal belief, right?

[Adolf Allerbush]

The owners of the lab say they haven't received any public funds. But Owens seems to disagree. I am not sure why this matters? A restaurant can receive public subsidy from the government and still deny service based on personal belief, right?

I'm sure Candace has received public funds indirectly...for example flying on commercial airplanes...driving on roads...agreed, shouldn't matter or disqualify a business.

[Percy Rideout]

Regarding your first numbered item, her staff reported that they booked her a test at the facility:


Regarding item #2: there are a lot of testing options these days. I investigated a lot of them, including self testing where you get your results within 48 hours. She did this as a publicity stunt geared to gin up reactions from conservatives and anti-vaxxers. It worked very well.



Sure, absolutely. Owens could've also used any number of other testing options, including the one behind City Hall. She's wealthy, so cost is not an issue, any of those quick result self tests would've worked too. This was a publicity stunt and it worked very well.

1. You only wanted to quote the first part of the article? Here's the rest. I guess we are both right...

Owens also had sought the test through the company’s concierge service, they said.

“We stand behind our staff and we’re not sending them to someone’s hotel room when they don’t feel safe,” Lee told The Times.

2. Yes it worked well. Lets be honest, Owens was just trying to get tested to see my mancrush Gary Clark Jr. tonight. Testing lady (stupidly) offered up this front page news and a larger audience on a silver platter. Can we talk more about how dumb and or ignorant the testing lady is?

Do you think its creepy or wrong to google search your potential clients in a healthcare testing setting?

[wooley12]

I don't care. No one cares. Welcome to Ignore.

[Adolf Allerbush]

1. You only wanted to quote the first part of the article? Here's the rest. I guess we are both right...

Owens also had sought the test through the company’s concierge service, they said.

“We stand behind our staff and we’re not sending them to someone’s hotel room when they don’t feel safe,” Lee told The Times.

2. Yes it worked well. Lets be honest, Owens was just trying to get tested to see my mancrush Gary Clark Jr. tonight. Testing lady (stupidly) offered up this front page news and a larger audience on a silver platter. Can we talk more about how dumb and or ignorant the testing lady is?

Do you think its creepy or wrong to google search your potential clients in a healthcare testing setting?

And you're ignoring that they offered other options as well, and you're ignoring that there are several other options she didn't even attempt. Rather she did this as a publicity stunt and yeah, seeing Gary Clark Jr. live is always good.


Let's be honest, Candace and the test facility lady are being morons. If you want to discuss that more i'm game.

yes, I think it's stupid and creepy to google your clients in a healthcare setting. My guess is being in the biz they knew all about this psycho asshole Owens without having to google her.

ETA: couldn't she have driven down 82 towards Glenwood Springs and hit one of the other testing facilities within 30-40 minutes of Aspen?

[Skidog]

I do think it's more of a burden on low income and minorities, which is not fair. That said, I'm tired of this pandemic and want to figure out ways to encourage people to get vaccinated.

Thats always pretty much been my argument as well. Its simply not fair. I wish I had a magic answer to get them all vaxxed, as I agree there as well. The vax is the only way we beat this thing down, and the sooner we do it, the less chance of new variants.

[Percy Rideout]

I don't care. No one cares. Welcome to Ignore.

Does this old boomer realize that without fleshing out discourse and discussing different opinions on topics, one gets stuck in an echo chamber.

When you actively discredit relevant voices, it's only you that loses.

https://aeon.co/essays/why-its-as-ha...to-flee-a-cult

OK BOOMER.

[altasnob]

My guess is being in the biz they knew all about this psycho asshole Owens without having to google her.

Owens also made a nearly 10-minute video explaining that her assistant booked the appointment under Owens’ married name, Farmer, and accused the facility of googling potential visitors to learn more about their ideology.

https://www.nydailynews.com/snyde/ny...uke-story.html

No one doubts that once Owens had the lab lady's email, it was a publicity stunt by Owens to stick it on the internet and make a big deal out of it. And no one doubts Owens is a cunt and this really didn't inconvenience her. I don't think she booked the appointment knowing they would deny her. My point is the lab served this up to Owens on a platter and she ran with it.