To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[CarlMega]

you do understand nobody is REQUIRED to get a drivers license right?

And where is she not allowed to go? Nobody is REQUIRED to go to a concert. FFS. Pinpoint her oppression with some precision. Optional air travel to other countries who have their own interests and rules?

As far as other vax and other medical validation , people have brought up public school and you should see what it's like to travel to Africa.

Edit: a few other from her moronic post:

calls vaccine a drug
implies that not being vax'd means you are being denied medical care?
to the best of my knowledge absolutely no one is denied access to grocery stores at any level, maybe stretching it to infer that unenforced company mask policy is "being denied'?

[funkendrenchman]

The do, and have every damned required vax they need. They DO NOT have to carry it to walk into a restaurant though now do they?

Nope, just to get into school, which means that almost any kid that walks into a restaurant has his/her vaccines, since almost all kids go to school.

[seano732]

Gonna pop open beer number two……JFC.

[CarlMega]

The do, and have every damned required vax they need. They DO NOT have to carry it to walk into a restaurant though now do they?

You do understand that nobody is REQUIRED to go to a restaurant?

[funkendrenchman]

You do understand that nobody is REQUIRED to go to a restaurant?

And most restaurants already take away your freedom to not wear a shirt. And going shirtless doesn't even spread a super infectious virus (as far as we know).

[CarlMega]

Gonna pop open beer number two……JFC.

I had to look up FLCCC lolz:



I can't help but notice they don't seem to advocate DeeBased sage advice of losing weight...but parasite treatments and vitamin suppliments!

[old goat]

Damn we lost Tatum Monod

Attachment 383603

That's funny. I can't move freely about society because people who refuse to get vaccinated have caused a surge and the need for new restrictions. I no longer live in a free country because of idiots like this.
Nobody is being refused medical care because they aren't vaccinated.
The govt has long had the right to compel medical treatment, quarantine people, forcibly hospitalize them, disclose their sexual contacts, etc in order to prevent the spread of contagious diseases. Spreading a potentially lethal infectious disease is potentially murder--and the last time I checked preventing people from murdering other people is a generally accepted infringement on personal freedom.
Who the fuck is Tatum Monod?

[old goat]

The do, and have every damned required vax they need. They DO NOT have to carry it to walk into a restaurant though now do they?

I'm pretty sure that if there was a polio epidemic because only half the people had their shots they'd be checking your vax status to get into a public pool, work in a restaurant etc. (If any of those places were open.) You are not thinking clearly.

[jono]

I'm pretty sure that if there was a polio epidemic because only half the people had their shots they'd be checking your vax status to get into a public pool, work in a restaurant etc. (If any of those places were open.) You are not thinking clearly.

He's right, though, having to get all up in everybody's business sucks. And we all know the difference is just vaccine uptake. So the way to stop the building of all this coercive infrastructure is to take away the incentive: get vaccinated. Problem solved.

[Ted Striker]

This round wheel sucks! I like the old square one. Never rolled away.

[MultiVerse]

I'm pretty sure that if there was a polio epidemic because only half the people had their shots they'd be checking your vax status to get into a public pool, work in a restaurant etc. (If any of those places were open.) You are not thinking clearly.

Yeah, vaccines that prevent disease and death but not always infections are still excellent and can still end pandemics. Even though the polio vaccines did not provide long lasting full sterilizing immunity, they still eliminated polio in the United States after enough people were vaxxed:


Historical evidence shows that vaccines that do not prevent virus infection can still stop epidemics in their tracks. The polio vaccine developed by Dr. Jonas Salk, which does not provide sterilizing immunity, resulted in the rapid elimination of polio in the United States beginning in the 1950s. People lined up eagerly to receive the vaccine to protect their children and themselves. The Salk vaccine was highly protective against the devastating impact of the disease and also worked to reduce spread of the virus because so many people were vaccinated and could clear their infection.

These Covid-19 vaccines are as much a victory for public health now as the Salk vaccine was then. We would do well to remind ourselves of the transformative power of vaccines that prevent disease without completely preventing infection when enough people take the vaccine. The sooner we reduce spread in the community and protect as many people as possible through vaccination, the sooner we’ll be able to relax.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/23/o...nsmission.html

[k2skier112]

you do understand nobody is REQUIRED to get a drivers license right?

not drive!? why do you hate America?

[The AD]

Trying to wrap my head around the mentality that stridently refuses a fda approved vaccine for humans but goes all in on veterinary meds...

It's insane, but the rationale is pretty straightfoward. These people do no trust government, so any guidance coming from the government is explictly shunned. OTOH, they tend to believe things their friends tell them and really don't care about whether there's scientific evidence or not.

[old goat]

As a percentage of the population polio deaths and disability were much less than Covid deaths.

[bodywhomper]

Growing up in Southern California in the 80’s and 90’s, I had plenty of friends with the small pox vax scar because they were immigrants.

Regarding Salk’s polio vax, my memory is that it allows those that are vaxed to still shed live virus, and, in our society, it still worked at eliminating the virus because of social acceptance.

I know somebody in her 70’s that used to be vax hesitant (she’s changed) that still got her children the polio vax (but that was it). Growing up, she knew people that badly suffered from polio and didn’t want that for her children. Apparently, she wasn’t aware of people that badly suffered from any of the other diseases that had childhood vaxes in the 70’s and 80’s. Her adult children caught themselves up when they left their homes.

[jono]

In general, it depends on the hospital system. PreCovid the push was to get away from "closed ICUs" and "visiting hours." Think what you would want if you or your loved one was in the ICU? The norm was for most places/pts to allow 24 hour visitation in ICUs so long as the number and activity of visitors didn't interfere. Generally it was encouraged in most hospitals (strongly) that visitors limit to 2 or less at a time and not stay the night (except parents of minor children) and especially for a vented ICU patient. It's not easy to sleep for very long in such an environment, constant nursing interventions, hanging meds, adjusting pumps, alarms of all types... visitors are educated they must care for themselves first.

Visitors are typically never allowed in airborne isolation rooms, except household contacts for r/o TB sometimes, compassionate cases, and parents of minor children in some cases.

For the situation you are describing with a COVID patient, when we care for these COVID cases who die, they are often over 20 days into their infection by the end. So, you can still be in ICU vented for ARDS due to COVID-19 pneumonia but no longer infectious, so I remove the iso orders and visitors are allowed. This is supported by the evidence that this is safe to do, allows less stress for staff and less PPE use too, frees up airborne rooms, and has been practice since last fall at least (or was it summer? it all runs together). Immunocompromised patients may end up with longer than 20 days iso.

We screen visitors for symptoms, temp, exposures (if you are supposed to be quarantined you can't come in), but don't require a negative test or proof of vaccination. Most hospitals allow 1 visitor per patient per day right now in my region. I adjust that for my hospital based on community prevalence. A bit ago it was 2. For a long time it was no visitors for anyone. No visitors is very distressing to patients and family. It can even be distressing for staff. Some visitors are very helpful to the patient and staff... some are most definitely not... telling parents of COVIDy children to either immediately get back in the ED iso room with their kid or leave hospital immediately when they step out into the ER hall to make a cellphone call is always so much of a fun conversation!

Thanks! That does sound pretty much like what happened in her case. I was curious if you use a test on the patient to determine whether to remove them from isolation, but it sounds like no, if enough time has passed?

[Ted Striker]

It's insane, but the rationale is pretty straightfoward. These people do no trust government, so any guidance coming from the government is explictly shunned. OTOH, they tend to believe things their friends tell them and really don't care about whether there's scientific evidence or not.

And their bodies are one of the few things they can control (obvious irony wrt a woman's right to choose)

Can't tell their bosses to fuck off. Can't stop the march of gentrification, immigration, globalization, the rich getting richer, and a damn chevy pickup costs $60k now!

But stick a needle their arms? Fuck no.

[The AD]

Good point. One of the few ways left to "stick it to the man."

[Dexter Rutecki]

I just pulled the plug on our Atlanta trip, the reported case rate is 7x higher there than here in CO and I don't need to drag my 10 year old around that hot mess. I'm pissed at everyone and yes, day drinking seems very appropriate today.

On the plus side you don't have to spend time in Atlanta.

[TBS]

So the anti-vax educator I know has decided she's gonna get a medical exemption to the state's vax mandate - from her anti-vax naturopath.
SMH

[Dexter Rutecki]

Pretty sure being asked for ID to purchase booze is an age thing.

Pretty sure being asked to show vaccinated status is a public health thing. Maybe you have similar objections to having to prove that you are allowed to buy/operate a motor vehicle? Or to register a kid for kindergarten? Such an infringement on freeeeedumzzz.

I agree everyone should get vaxxed....I disagree with the need to "prove" that status with an "id". Seems a bit of a reach. I won't fight against it, but i won't be happy when/if forced. Guess I follow the herd...???

If we get everyone vaxed and get over this then no one will need to prove vax status in the future. We'd be a lot closer if it weren't for people playing politics with vax/masks.

[KQ]

[Dexter Rutecki]

you do understand nobody is REQUIRED to get a drivers license right?

No one is talking about a requirement to be vaccinated. Don't get the vax and stay home--fine with me. Just don't think you're entitled to go to school, work, attend events. etc. if you can't be bothered to be vaxed and show that you've done it.

[Peruvian]

And their bodies are one of the few things they can control (obvious irony wrt a woman's right to choose)

Can't tell their bosses to fuck off. Can't stop the march of gentrification, immigration, globalization, the rich getting richer, and a damn chevy pickup costs $60k now!

But stick a needle their arms? Fuck no.

If they would stop voting in corporate whores who talk a good culture war game, they might turn the tide.

[GiBo]

Good legal summary on mandates.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ljg_porac/d...pdf?1629301273