To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[MultiVerse]

^ RJ missing the point as always. The point, as explained by Jono and in my post quoted above, is the article's denominator is wrong:

"The problems is with the denominator for the % of natural reinfections because things have changed since the pandemic began. Many of the people with natural reinfections also got vaccinated. Some of the natural reinfections in previous waves would have been infected during the delta wave instead, and so on. There's also the same problem as your table, which your article mentions, i.e. dividing numbers for specific areas with national averages."

It's not so much limiting the denominator to just the recent 2 month period as it is using an accurate denominator over the 2 month period. The majority of the population is now fully vaccinated, including many of the previously infected, so it makes no sense using the totality all previous infections since the pandemic began as your denominator unless you also included the totality in your numerator.

[rideit]

Focus on this, and not your Cherry-picking Cock-a-poo-poo.
It’s grim.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...for-a-comeback

[jono]

#cockapoo

So in the ideal world, is there a filter you can run to ignore #cockapoo and save all the #don'tfeedthetrolls posts?

[ron johnson]

Eh went back and deleted all of his posts prior to June 2020. He posted stoke years ago, and then disappeared for a while, and resurfaced as the global warming misinformation doubt casting troll. Since the pandemic, all of his posts are in the troll thread, or in the pandemic threads, again, spreading disinformation and casting doubt. I vote ban hammer. It is not the same person it once was.

sent from Utah.

Never deleted any posts. What is it with you guys and conspiracy theories?

[seano732]

Focus on this, and not your Cherry-picking Cock-a-poo-poo.
It’s grim.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...for-a-comeback

At this point I don’t see how we make it through….. It’s not even Fall yet, there’s no fucking way we get to fall break with in person learning….. And fuck all the mouth breathers who are making it happen. Makes me wanna put hands on people. Assholes.

[ron johnson]

^ RJ missing the point as always. The point, as explained by Jono and in my post quoted above, is the article's denominator is wrong:

"The problems is with the denominator for the % of natural reinfections because things have changed since the pandemic began. Many of the people with natural reinfections also got vaccinated. Some of the natural reinfections in previous waves would have been infected during the delta wave instead, and so on. There's also the same problem as your table, which your article mentions, i.e. dividing numbers for specific areas with national averages."

It's not so much limiting the denominator to just the recent 2 month period as it is using an accurate denominator over the 2 month period.

We don't have the data to do it the way you want. You trying to substitute the 10 month reinfection data doesn't improve things.

[rideit]

“Velcro goalposts”

[ron johnson]

Focus on this, and not your Cherry-picking Cock-a-poo-poo.
It’s grim.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...for-a-comeback

Oh yes, back to the fear-mongering about kids. Newsflash: the flu is still more deadly than COVID for kids.

How are you still falling for it?

[rideit]

“Invisible touch, yeah!”

[jono]

This is for @Danno. Or anyone thinking this particular Cockapoo is sincere:

From the article: "Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination."

You realize that those recovered who also got vaccinated would fall in the vaccinated category and thus help improve the vaccinated category if "It's well known that the best immunity comes from adding vaccination to prior infection"?

Notice how he originally posted that the vaccinated group was defined as "only had immunity through vaccination" and when that's inconvenient he wants to change the whole narrative--in contradiction of his own post? Almost like he never even read it. This is not typical, it's 100% consistent. The purpose is not to win an argument or to make any kind of point, it's just to appeal to the poor souls like TruckeeJoe, who is sincere but doesn't really quite get it and won't follow along. RJ just wants to keep enough noise in the conversation to distract and kill as many Americans as possible. So I guess I believe he's sincere in that respect.

[MultiVerse]

Yep. His framing always becomes increasingly nonsensical. In this instance comparing like things to like things at least puts the numbers in the right ballpark. Knowingly using the wrong numbers because we "don't have the data" will not.

[Buzzworthy]

It’s gotten ridiculously easy to scroll right on by the asshats. Please try it. Stop engaging, it’s really cathartic.

[Buster Highmen]

It's cathartic to ignore the disease, but it has to be confronted as well.

These remarks concern data taken prior to March 2020.
It's obvious that the Delta variant is changing this dynamic.

Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...with-influenza


Kids with COVID-19, flu equally prone to severe illness
A single-center study of 315 pediatric COVID-19 patients and 1,402 children with seasonal flu identified no difference in rates of hospitalization, intensive care unit (ICU) admission, or mechanical ventilation between the two groups.


https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...severe-illness

[summit]

COVID IFR is probably 0.5-1%, probably 10x seasonal flu IFR.

[ron johnson]

This is for @Danno. Or anyone thinking this particular Cockapoo is sincere:






Notice how he originally posted that the vaccinated group was defined as "only had immunity through vaccination" and when that's inconvenient he wants to change the whole narrative--in contradiction of his own post? Almost like he never even read it. This is not typical, it's 100% consistent. The purpose is not to win an argument or to make any kind of point, it's just to appeal to the poor souls like TruckeeJoe, who is sincere but doesn't really quite get it and won't follow along. RJ just wants to keep enough noise in the conversation to distract and kill as many Americans as possible. So I guess I believe he's sincere in that respect.

The article clearly made a mistake saying "only". The article states they are using 5,193,499 as the number of people vaccinated, which was the total # vaccinated at the time. They haven't done any separating out for infected + vaccinated.

[ron johnson]

It's cathartic to ignore the disease, but it has to be confronted as well.

These remarks concern data taken prior to March 2020.
It's obvious that the Delta variant is changing this dynamic.

Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...with-influenza

COVID IFR is probably 0.5-1%, probably 10x seasonal flu IFR.

Did you guys miss the part about kids?

[Buster Highmen]

No:


Kids with COVID-19, flu equally prone to severe illness
A single-center study of 315 pediatric COVID-19 patients and 1,402 children with seasonal flu identified no difference in rates of hospitalization, intensive care unit (ICU) admission, or mechanical ventilation between the two groups.


https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...severe-illness

Study finds surprisingly little difference in hospitalization rates between children with COVID-19 and those with seasonal flu

https://childrensnational.org/news-a...f-covid-vs-flu


Care to move the goalposts again?

Everything I've read concerning the Delta variant suggests that it is impacting children much more, but I'll admit I don't have any studies in that regard. Yet.

So, Newsflash: the flu is NOT more deadly than COVID for kids.

(edit for icing)


Covid hospitalizations are rare among children, but still more frequent than for flu, the C.D.C. says.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/h...-children.html


COVID-19 in kids tied to more complications than flu

https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...-than-flu.html


Results: A total of 295 patients with influenza and 133 with SARS-CoV2 infection were included. The median age was 3.7 years for influenza and 5.3 years for SARS-CoV2. Comorbidities were frequent in both groups, but they were more common in patients with influenza (96.6 vs. 82.7%, p < 0.001). Fever and cough were the most common clinical manifestations in both groups. Rhinorrhea was present in more than half of children with influenza but was infrequent in those with COVID-19 (53.6 vs. 5.8%, p < 0.001). Overall, 6.4% percent of patients with influenza and 7.5% percent of patients with SARS-CoV2 infection died. In-hospital mortality and the need for mechanical ventilation among symptomatic patients were similar between groups in the multivariate analysis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8264261/

[MagnificentUnicorn]

So dipshit isn’t even bothering to read anymore. Our pediatric hospitalist is talking about MIS. It’s not about Covid per se, it’s a syndrome caused by viral infections.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Toadman]

Wife got her 3rd booster shot today. (Pfizer) Just needed to sign an affidavit that she is in one of the CDC high risk categories.

[Buster Highmen]

So dipshit isn’t even bothering to read anymore. Our pediatric hospitalist is talking about MIS. It’s not about Covid per se, it’s a syndrome caused by viral infections.

Now, now, one shouldn't be so harsh on the disabled.

[jono]

Here is a challenge to you or anyone else: Find one post of mine that wasn't valid and I won't post in the thread again.

It should be pretty easy since my views are apparently equivalent to believing the earth is flat.

Offer still stands?

[Buster Highmen]

Offer still stands?

I've done it before during the climate change squabble. MV has done it a number of times.

The man has no scruples and refuses to acknowledge his invalidity.

[rideit]

I think the real challenge is finding even one post that is factual.
After all, they would be coming through a filter of pure bullshit, sullying them irreparably.

[jono]

I've done it before during the climate change squabble. MV has done it a number of times.

The man has no scruples and refuses to acknowledge his invalidity.

If Putin wasn't so cheap he'd approve the overtime and they wouldn't have to hand off the password to so many different people. It's just a lot of threads to keep straight in the old Raiza's head.

[KQ]

“Ignant and PROUD”

She's a large animal vet. Vaxxes horses all the time without thinking about it.