To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[ron johnson]

I’m in WA. Yes we have COVID patients on ventilators. All of our patients admitted for COVID(19 at last count)are unvaccinated.


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But you are using them as a last resort right?

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/21/...n-ventilators/

[jackattack]

I’m getting so frustrated with anti vaccine people, even coworkers. It’s like selective psychosis


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It’s just the piece of their psychosis that comes to bare.

[MultiVerse]

Source?

And yet, Isreal has decided to start offering booster shots: https://apnews.com/article/middle-ea...8e9eea4bdcc50a

Isreal decided to start offering booster shots to folks > 60 because as mentioned in the quoted post vaccines are less effective against delta. That does not mean however vaccines aren't still highly effective. The latest data from Israel suggests mRNA vaccines reduce the risk of serious illness among the elderly 81% against delta, versus 97%. Even so, serious illness and hospitalizations remain comparatively low among the the vaccinated population.

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/b6a80442-...d-7793d417eddb

But you are using them as a last resort right?

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/21/...n-ventilators/

Your article dates back to April 2020 and the issue was discussed at length here at the time. From that perspective a lot of the items on your list about the unknowns come across as disingenuous because bringing them up almost a year and half later elicits an 'eye roll' response. The issues are nuanced and well understood here, and nobody wants to rehash them all over again with a dilettante.

[CarlMega]

Some people can't see the forest thru the trees as they say....lol

Uh- you think that's what they say?

Best in thread: father of the year who infected his kids due to his shitty stance, also knows cocksure they won't need due to his negligence. bring on the liquid silver.

[jackattack]

Consider that you are spending hours arguing "medical science" in an echo chamber on a forum called THE PADDED ROOM on a platform run by a ski movie making company in bumfuck wyoming.

Some people can't see the forest thru the trees as they say....lol

Only thing I’m arguing is that I’ve been logged on just about as long as it’s taken for me to take a shit.

Can’t speak for the unicorn, but I suspect he’s bored at the hospital.

[old goat]

Now the fearmongering over Delta is here 1.5 years later, just like we said it would.

This pandemic will stop when we rise up and say its over.

If we rise up and say you're gone will you be gone?

Some stuff from Walensky. Data on which the CDC based its latest recommendation supposed to be released tomorrow.
Explains why breakthrough delta cases may heavily infect the nose but not the lungs etc
Sounds like a nasal vaccine will be needed to further control transmission. Not that it will do much good if the idiots continue to refuse vaccination.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/29/h...nsmission.html

[Adolf Allerbush]

Time to play catch up...

I have been talking since day 1 that the eventual variants to the Alpha COVID strain would be worse. Anyone awake in biology 101 could have predicted this. That's the way viruses mutate and stay alive...pardon the pun.

Now the fearmongering over Delta is here 1.5 years later, just like we said it would.

This pandemic will stop when we rise up and say its over.

Safe to assume you're an antivaxxer? At least with regards to the mRNA vaccines?

[Adolf Allerbush]

Perfectly safe?

Ever read VAERS?
Doubt it.

My previous rant was about lockdowns.

But if we’re talking vax, yes my mom should have gotten it.
Me? Don’t need it. Natural immunity.

My kids? Natural immunity. But even if they hadn’t had Rona, they don’t need vax. Rare health impact if they get it. Yeah yeah spreaders etc. but no.

Yes, the mRNA vaccines have been proven to be safe.

Sure I know of VAERS, so what?

I know you've seen the posts from several others with lots and lots of evidence to the contrary of your "natural immunity" being the end all be all.

It should be interesting to see what long term effects you and your kids have from the disease, probably things we can't even fathom in addition to those already identified. I guess that doesn't matter to you though because your freedumbs.

Generally, are you and your wife antivaxxers when it comes to your kids?

[ron johnson]

Isreal decided to start offering booster shots to folks > 60 because as mentioned in the quoted post vaccines are less effective against delta. That does not mean however vaccines aren't still highly effective. The latest data from Israel suggests mRNA vaccines reduce the risk of serious illness 81% against delta, versus 97%.

If they are less effective against delta then why do they think a booster is going to help?

Where is your latest data coming from?

Your article dates back to April 2020 and the issue was discussed at length here at the time. From that perspective a lot of your arguments about the unknowns at the time come across as disingenuous because binging them up 18 months later elicits a 'duh' response. Issues revolving around your list are nuanced and well understood here, and nobody wants to rehash them with a dilettante.

No shit. The point was ventilators were thought to be important early on, and then they realized they might be causing harm.

[The SnowShow]

US averaging 80k a day now, with Floridumb at about 23% of that.

[Core Shot]

Yes, the mRNA vaccines have been proven to be safe.

Sure I know of VAERS, so what?

I know you've seen the posts from several others with lots and lots of evidence to the contrary of your "natural immunity" being the end all be all.

It should be interesting to see what long term effects you and your kids have from the disease, probably things we can't even fathom in addition to those already identified. I guess that doesn't matter to you though because your freedumbs.

Generally, are you and your wife antivaxxers when it comes to your kids?

You know of VAERS.
have you looked at it?

And no I and my bride aren’t anti vax

But carry on with your assumptions

[MultiVerse]

If they are less effective against delta then why do they think a booster is going to help?

Where is your latest data coming from?

No shit. The point was ventilators were thought to be important early on, and then they realized they might be causing harm.

1) Subject to change, current thinking is a third dose induces nAbs (neutralizing antibody) in somnescent immune systems which may help against the increased viral load associated with the Delta variant. Prior to delta it was thought decreasing levels of nAbs mattered less because T cells would quickly kick into gear in response to an infection but perhaps in some cases high delta viral loads overwhelm the T cell response.

2) I provided a link in the post above.

3) Right, that's how science is supposed to work. In about a month doctors learned not to rely as heavily on ventilators. Other interventions were adopted too and as a result the case fatality rate dropped significantly.

You know of VAERS.
have you looked at it?

VAERS is a cornucopia of false side effects


https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipelin...e-side-effects

[Adolf Allerbush]

You know of VAERS.
have you looked at it?

And no I and my bride aren’t anti vax

But carry on with your assumptions

It wasn't an assumption it was a question, especially after your statement/question about VAERS.

[Deebased]

Both you and RJ keep glossing over the Delta variant. It's not so much a case of more breakthrough infections than previously thought after vaccination or even a case of less or decreasing vaccine effectiveness as it is a new variant.

It's like saying there were large overestimates of mortality rates even though it's now been established the mortality rate is highly dependent on hospital capacity, medical treatment, BMI and comorbidities. As with vaccines, mortality rates saw a steep drop with better treatments.




Yeah, I got that your post was also about masking and closing businesses but you've also, as in the post above, argued against vaccination in relation to the delta variant even though the data clearly shows delta is an even bigger reason for vaccination if the goal is putting masks etc. behind us.

FIFY123

[skaredshtles]

Well it's a pretty nice, largely COVID-free jail, if that's what you think it is. Good surf, heaps of forests and single track, delicious food, relaxed attitude to life, no anti-vax and anti-mask nutters from the US allowed in at the moment, free healthcare..."fucking off the chart government control" ain't so bad.

Also, to correct misinformation: there aren't lockdowns because "a 90 year old died". There is a hard lockdown in Sydney because Delta got loose in an overwhelmingly unvaccinated country, in the middle of winter, in a place that also hasn't had COVID rip through it like a dodgy street curry through your guts, so we have next-to-no level of herd immunity.

There were hard lockdowns in Adelaide and Melbourne, but because they went hard and fast, Delta is again coming under control and they're being lifted progressively because we don't have much issue with JUST DEALING WITH IT AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF AND GETTING THE HARD SHIT DONE so we can just get on with it instead of whinging like 5 year olds who got told no ice cream and the tv's going off too because you're acting like a prat.

Although a protester did punch a police horse in the face the other day, but now he's in jail refusing to take a COVID test, so he can enjoy 14 days of jailhouse isolation instead of getting out on bail. Maybe we can send him over to you guys instead?

Attachment 381021

The seeding event for the current mass Delta outbreak was an infected air crew member from the US who gave it to an airport transport driver. The state govt thought they could control the outbreak like COVID classic, turns out Delta's a fucking beast.

That doesn't really fit CS's narrative, though...

[Buzzworthy]

You know of VAERS.
have you looked at it?

And no I and my bride aren’t anti vax

But carry on with your assumptions

Any dumbfuck can enter bullshit on VAERS.
It’s no better than Twitter.
Take a lap.

[CarlMega]

That doesn't really fit CS's narrative, though...

Grandmommy is not going down under. That's for certain.

[JayPowHound]

Have been occasionally following this thread, as well as keeping on top of "real" news.

It seems like much of the hesitation/inability to require Vax is that the FDA hasn't approved it yet.

Has that been discussed and I missed it?

From what I understand they have recommended it without passing it through the whole process to be approved, which historically takes some time.. but this is a unique situation.

I feel like from a govt. intervention standpoint that is the next logical step that we're waiting for.

Once the FDA offers full approval it seems it would be easier to require the shots to access more (most?) services?

(FWIW I'm fully vaxd. Moderna in early May)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...roval.amp.html

[sirbumpsalot]

Any dumbfuck can enter bullshit on VAERS.
It’s no better than Twitter.
Take a lap.

Padded Room on TGR forums is certainly safe from bullshit...I mean you are here right?

[mfcf13]

Some people can't see the forest thru the trees as they say....lol

It's fascinating that future generations will look back and read stupid colloquialisms like this from the anti-vaxxers. Kids will read history books and ask "why were these guys so ignorant and so unwilling to take easy steps like masking and getting vaccinated?" And they will look up from the history books and remark: "it's sadly ironic that conspiracy theorists like Sirlittledick were spouting off about 'seeing the forest thru (sic) the trees' while being blindly unwilling to take basic steps against a pandemic".

We're at this point: "Pandemic self-inflicted by nutjobs"


I would venture to ask "what are your kids and grandkids going to think of your stupid statements years down the road" but you, CorseShot, Ron Johnson and your ilk are lonely incels so the question doesn't apply.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

But you are using them as a last resort right?

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/21/...n-ventilators/

It’s always been the last resort. As we grew to understand the virus and it’s effects we tried to put the use of ventilators further out. Have you seen COVID patients in the ICU? If someone is going to die in minutes, should we just wait and see what happens? What would you like we do for you?

With lack of understanding of a NOVEL coronavirus, we intubate people that are dying of respiratory failure. Now that we know early treatment with dexamethasone helps prevent ventilation we don’t have to intubate and ventilate as many people.

You figure it out


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[PNWbrit]

It’s always been the last resort. As we grew to understand the virus and it’s effects we tried to put the use of ventilators further out. Have you seen COVID patients in the ICU? If someone is going to die in minutes, should we just wait and see what happens? What would you like we do for you?

With lack of understanding of a NOVEL coronavirus, we intubate people that are dying of respiratory failure. Now that we know early treatment with dexamethasone helps prevent ventilation we don’t have to intubate and ventilate as many people.

You figure it out


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Don't encourage him.

[ex-powderbroker]

Well it's a pretty nice, largely COVID-free jail, if that's what you think it is. Good surf, heaps of forests and single track, delicious food, relaxed attitude to life, no anti-vax and anti-mask nutters from the US allowed in at the moment, free healthcare..."fucking off the chart government control" ain't so bad.

Also, to correct misinformation: there aren't lockdowns because "a 90 year old died". There is a hard lockdown in Sydney because Delta got loose in an overwhelmingly unvaccinated country, in the middle of winter, in a place that also hasn't had COVID rip through it like a dodgy street curry through your guts, so we have next-to-no level of herd immunity.

There were hard lockdowns in Adelaide and Melbourne, but because they went hard and fast, Delta is again coming under control and they're being lifted progressively because we don't have much issue with JUST DEALING WITH IT AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF AND GETTING THE HARD SHIT DONE so we can just get on with it instead of whinging like 5 year olds who got told no ice cream and the tv's going off too because you're acting like a prat.

Although a protester did punch a police horse in the face the other day, but now he's in jail refusing to take a COVID test, so he can enjoy 14 days of jailhouse isolation instead of getting out on bail. Maybe we can send him over to you guys instead?

Attachment 381021

The seeding event for the current mass Delta outbreak was an infected air crew member from the US who gave it to an airport transport driver. The state govt thought they could control the outbreak like COVID classic, turns out Delta's a fucking beast.

great post. thanks.

[Deebased]

Consistently correct? You are insane. Off the top of my head:

-Underplayed severity early on
-Flip flopping on masks
-Said masks were more effective than a vaccine
-Said if 90% of people wore masks we could get COVID under control
-Flip flopping on masks for vaccinated
-Asymptomatic transmission
-Large overestimate of mortality rate
-Massive overestimates of deaths from modeling
-Sweden predicted death zone
-Ventilators
-Surface spread
-COVID origins
-Thanksgiving wave
-Christmas wave
-Superspreading predictions like Sturgis and SuperBowl
-Florida and Texas predicted to be a death zone
-Closing of outdoor spaces
-Vaccine effectiveness

Stunning incompetence.

You forgot about PCR tests
Inability to differentiate between the flu and c19

[jono]

great post. thanks.

+1. Good luck, Aussies. Don't try to kick out your idiots too easily, though. Inoculation takes many forms and obviously you can see how important it is.