The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[Lindahl]

Its all speculation as to why his bindings released. However, I do know that my Shifts have performed flawlessly for a few seasons now, and I definitely ski them hard in shitty snow (especially now in Europe) and take plenty of airs with them. Much harder turns in much shittier snow at much higher speeds than that have never been an issue for me. But maybe my pair is an outlier

[Any]

There's a lot of hate directed at the Shift lately. It hasn't met what I hoped it would be. But I think expectations for a lot of people were that it would be the evolution of a touring binding with all the benefits of a high-end, highly elastic, high-ISO binding. I still hope that it'll eventually exist, but I recognize that my hopes were a bit too much.

The binding is still great. I would argue that it's on par with the guardian, only without the weight. As a 50/50 binding I still don't think there's anything better out there. The only reason I'll stop skiing it is because I've already quiver killed my skis for the past 7 years, so the usefulness of the Shift is lost on me more when I can already change out my binders between in-bounds and out-of-bounds; may as well have a lighter binding for longer tours. The only thing that's been lacking with my quiver killing endeavours is I still don't have a solution for skiing steeper/faster terrain or hitting airs while touring... Except for CAST.

What people hoped (myself included) the Shift would be translated into unrealistic expectations. People are upset now that their unrealistic expectations don't match up with the reality of what the Shift actually is. Also, I'd argue that at least 1/3 of the people complaining about it probably haven't set it correctly. Hell, I would trust only a handful of certified techs to set it correctly. I had to troubleshoot mine and it vastly improved my retention once I did. There's a good chance Instagram bro and other bros have the issues they've had due to user error. Unfortunately we'll never know for sure, but I can certainly speak to my own experiences.

tl;dr: The Shift is still very high, if not the highest, on the list of 50/50 bindings out there. If you're a very aggressive skier, or fat, there's still no substitute for highly elastic, high-ISO bindings out there. If you're a spoiled brat like me and want it all, either quiver kill your skis and/or use CAST, or buy a lot of different setups.

cool.
that im moving from kingpins to shifts means im probably not expecting as much i hope.

It may also be a documentation flaw. The adjustment instructions here are significantly better than those I found looking for official docs

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maybe i should double check ive done mine correctly. care to point me in the right direction? seems ive about 125 pages to catch up on.

[phatboy64]

"Also, I'd argue that at least 1/3 of the people complaining about it probably haven't set it correctly."

I agree. I am not discounting that people have valid complaints/issues but I also think there a lot of people bashing the Shifts who have never actually owned a pair, they are just piling on the "shifts suck" bandwagon.

[gramboh]

They aren't perfect but for a 50/50 binding they have been awesome for me, ski feel is awesome and they tour acceptably and weight isn't crazy.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Put me in the Shifts are a good binding camp. The AFD design is stupid. But after following Lee Lau's adjustment directions they've performed flawlessly. They ski and tour better than plate bindings.

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[californiagrown]

Its all speculation as to why his bindings released. However, I do know that my Shifts have performed flawlessly for a few seasons now, and I definitely ski them hard in shitty snow (especially now in Europe) and take plenty of airs with them. Much harder turns in much shittier snow at much higher speeds than that have never been an issue for me. But maybe my pair is an outlier.

Thats the weird thing. None of my pre-releases have happened doing anything where i felt i would be pushing it. Matter of fact, they have performed super well when i was pushing it. Cliffs up to 15ft into big fast slingshotted GS carves through soft chopped PNW snow, etc.

Every (bad) release has been when i least expected it. Like, i would have felt comfortable skiing like that on a 5 DIN binding (ski at 13). In fact, two of the releases happened in perfect balance so much that i just finished the turn and stopped. Another happened popping around in flat pow on the side of green run at like 10mph... straight out the front with both skis to lawndart.

that said, they tour great, i dont want to buy new bindings and i keep hoping they'll hold me in better, next time. I feel like a battered wife going back to her husband "because he didnt meant it, and he said he will change!".

[anotherVTskibum]

cool.
that im moving from kingpins to shifts means im probably not expecting as much i hope.


maybe i should double check ive done mine correctly. care to point me in the right direction? seems ive about 125 pages to catch up on.

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/amp/51618

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[Any]

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/amp/51618

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cool thanks heaps.

time to have a play (probably unnecessarily) tweaking everything possible!

Just when I thought to have figured them out... ...pre-release. Admittedly not with the set I usually ski - same settings though.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMfBtHLDgl0/

i meant to include last time. i can't say much about this video, but i have releases like this all the time where i live in japan.
a 1 meter diameter depression hidden under the snow caused by warm water rising to the surface in that spot. your skis sink in and they stop dead when they hit the sharp edge on the other side, plus they get bogged in the in wet snow underneath. result is you suddenly superman'ing forward. often your sliding forward can drag the skis with you too cause they no longer have the weight on them.
i most certainly want to release here, otherwise i reckon it'd rip my calf off.
when this happens to me i most certainly thank my bindings for doing their job, wipe the snow off my face, blow the snow out of my nose, repair my damaged ego, and keep skiing :P

[aanev]

i meant to include last time. i can't say much about this video, but i have releases like this all the time where i live in japan.
a 1 meter diameter depression hidden under the snow caused by warm water rising to the surface in that spot. your skis sink in and they stop dead when they hit the sharp edge on the other side, plus they get bogged in the in wet snow underneath. result is you suddenly superman'ing forward. often your sliding forward can drag the skis with you too cause they no longer have the weight on them.
i most certainly want to release here, otherwise i reckon it'd rip my calf off.
when this happens to me i most certainly thank my bindings for doing their job, wipe the snow off my face, blow the snow out of my nose, repair my damaged ego, and keep skiing :P

No superman'ing here - just flexing the skis a bit more in the depression between the bumps (in neutral stance). However, I think I figured this one too - these Wren98's have a somewhat rounder flex then my Wren108's and when flexed more the heel tends to open easier. I dialed the forward pressure down a bit, upped the release value a little and since then they seem OK.
I played a bit hand flexing the skis and monitoring the forward pressure behavior and it seems maybe slower compared to other bindings.

Overall, quite happy with the Shifts - more than 40 days on them this winter with only two pre-releases. I can live with that .

[Any]

No superman'ing here - just flexing the skis a bit more in the depression between the bumps (in neutral stance). However, I think I figured this one too - these Wren98's have a somewhat rounder flex then my Wren108's and when flexed more the heel tends to open easier. I dialed the forward pressure down a bit, upped the release value a little and since then they seem OK.
I played a bit hand flexing the skis and monitoring the forward pressure behavior and it seems maybe slower compared to other bindings.

Overall, quite happy with the Shifts - more than 40 days on them this winter with only two pre-releases. I can live with that .

ah. ive wondered about this on other skis. i might keep that in mind and consider something similar.

[Any]

first tour day for the shifts today, and they sucked

the shifts work exactly as I expected, a bunch of close knit moving parts that get jammed up at the first sign of snow and ice.
designed for two-day-a-year blue sky fair weather skiers no doubt ... ok a bit much, you can tell im pretty cranky right now. because just two hours in heavy snowfall of medium wet aussie snow was too much for them.
seems I was enough of a sucker to give them a go, and now I've got a ski setup I wish I didn't do.

transitioning from ski mode for the front binding required a bunch of beating the binding and poking at it with a ski pole. finally cleared it enough that it locked in, but was so difficult that it made me question weather it was actually in ski mode or not still (I suspect the pre-releases happen this way).

and for touring the rear breaks wont lock down in walk mode because the cavity the foot piece is supposed to fold into was absolutely jam packed full with snow. i had to get a screwdriver out to dig it all out, then still had to repeatedly stomp down on the binding so hard I dug a ski shaped hole in the ground.

I'll take them out again tomorrow for another test.
hopefully I'm doing something wrong or something stupid!

[F#*k you cat]

The shift is a great binding. There are a couple of tips that you can do to greatly improve your experience.

Toe. When touring after you get your toe in. Which I find a simple inside outside move to get the toe lugs to fit in. Then pull up hard on the toe lever. Past the first click. That locks you in uphill mode. There are previous posts about the new din windows with the lugs that help keep the toe lever in place.. check out that in this thread. Not sure if you have OG din windows or the new ones. Just remember the second click is fully locked and the first click is not locked at all. You can boot out on a side hill when only using the 1st click.

Next on the down. Make sure to push the locking lever all the way down in order to ski down hill. Then you have a fully operational toe.

The ski brakes can be finiky if you do not set them up properly from the get go
When going up hill make sure then you put the brakes in the up lock position you hear a audible click. Yes clear the snow first. I have not had a brake release when I hear the brake clicking in the up position. Check out some of the cool vids on the web to get educated on what works for the brakes and the toe lever.

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[rod9301]

first tour day for the shifts today, and they sucked

the shifts work exactly as I expected, a bunch of close knit moving parts that get jammed up at the first sign of snow and ice.
designed for two-day-a-year blue sky fair weather skiers no doubt ... ok a bit much, you can tell im pretty cranky right now. because just two hours in heavy snowfall of medium wet aussie snow was too much for them.
seems I was enough of a sucker to give them a go, and now I've got a ski setup I wish I didn't do.

transitioning from ski mode for the front binding required a bunch of beating the binding and poking at it with a ski pole. finally cleared it enough that it locked in, but was so difficult that it made me question weather it was actually in ski mode or not still (I suspect the pre-releases happen this way).

and for touring the rear breaks wont lock down in walk mode because the cavity the foot piece is supposed to fold into was absolutely jam packed full with snow. i had to get a screwdriver out to dig it all out, then still had to repeatedly stomp down on the binding so hard I dug a ski shaped hole in the ground.

I'll take them out again tomorrow for another test.
hopefully I'm doing something wrong or something stupid!

The only thing wrong you did is when you bought them.

Good luck

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[TahoeJ]

The ski brakes can be finiky if you do not set them up properly from the get go
When going up hill make sure then you put the brakes in the up lock position you hear a audible click. Yes clear the snow first. I have not had a brake release when I hear the brake clicking in the up position. Check out some of the cool vids on the web to get educated on what works for the brakes and the toe lever.

I wish people would stop saying this. There’s an issue with the brakes not staying up in touring mode, end of story. Not a setup issue, not user error.

[~mikey b]

I have never had that problem or any other problem.

I only have one season with them and they worked fine. My daily driver for inbounds and my usual early morning hike before the lifts loaded at the local hill.

I don’t have any actual backcountry experience with them because I have a different set up for that.

[~mikey b]

they do get jammed up with snow and ice and mud and dirt - gotta sometimes clean em out

[TahoeJ]

they do get jammed up with snow and ice and mud and dirt - gotta sometimes clean em out

No. I mean yes that happens but also no. They have issues right out of the parking lot. I’ve seen it myself on two of my own pairs and several friends’ pairs. It’s a real thing. People need to stop saying otherwise. Reader beware.

[Any]

they did better today, 3 hours out in foot deep medium dry powder with constant wind blown broken crystal coming down.
much drier than yesterday.

i still have to beat them a bit to get the snow to fall out. but now i place them upside down when i stop to prevent any chance of more snow falling into the gaps n stuff.

only once did the heel brakes come out, even after really clicking and stomping them in.

still tho, my kingpins wouldn't have cared in the slightest at yesterdays or todays conditions.

[dcpnz]

I wish people would stop saying this. There’s an issue with the brakes not staying up in touring mode, end of story. Not a setup issue, not user error.

I'm with mikey b - this is not a universal problem - two pair, two seasons, lots of days, never had that issue.
I actually have more of a problem not being able to get brakes out of tour mode back into ski mode by hand and need to pry them with a pole tip

[aanev]

I'm with mikey b - this is not a universal problem - two pair, two seasons, lots of days, never had that issue.
I actually have more of a problem not being able to get brakes out of tour mode back into ski mode by hand and need to pry them with a pole tip

I have similar experience. 6 sets of brakes - 5 of them work as expected. One of them pops open.
Switching in climbing mode by hand (while putting the skins) helps. Snow under/inside the brakes does not help .

[TahoeJ]

So like 7-8 of the 20 or so people I personally know with them have had this problem. Take that for what you all will and keep drinking that koolaid. Good luck!

[cmsummit]

I sold my Shifts 2 seasons ago after the 3rd prelease. The thread makes me feel completely content with that decision.

[detrusor]

Never regretted selling mine. The pre-releases were so disconcerting


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[Lindahl]

Thankful I have a good pair I guess?

[galibier_numero_un]

Considering Salomon's mature manufacturing capabilities, it sounds as if the design is predicated on tight tolerances - tolerances that aren't easy to hold in production.

I won't repeat the comments about QA and QC, poor training materials for shop rats, or the attributes of a design that could be more idiot proof than it obviously is.

Key takeaway: If you have a pair(s) that's working for you, hang on to them. Don't mess with success.


... Thom