To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[old goat]

I still wear a mask in close settings, don't eat indoors at restaurants etc because we don't have good data on the effectiveness of the vaccines on all the variants (the Indian one seems to be a particular concern to the WHO) as well as their transmissibility and lethality. The idea that the vaccinated have near zero chance of getting seriously ill or dying is based on the Phase 3 trials which were largely pre-variant. Restaurants around here are supposed to be 25%. Many aren't open indoors; those that are make no attempt to limit occupancy. I'll ease up after I see the numbers continue to fall for at least a month or two more--that will be the best indication we have that the variants aren't overcoming vaccination.

[Ted Striker]

Few know of this anymore. Far fewer experienced this. This lost collective memory profoundly affects the lack of perceived risk in parental decisions to not vaccinate children.

The collective memory has been supplanted by the internet.

And rather than seeking knowledge, people look to the net to reinforce their preconceived nonsense.

[GoldMember]

I still wear a mask in close settings, don't eat indoors at restaurants etc because we don't have good data on the effectiveness of the vaccines on all the variants (the Indian one seems to be a particular concern to the WHO) as well as their transmissibility and lethality. The idea that the vaccinated have near zero chance of getting seriously ill or dying is based on the Phase 3 trials which were largely pre-variant. Restaurants around here are supposed to be 25%. Many aren't open indoors; those that are make no attempt to limit occupancy. I'll ease up after I see the numbers continue to fall for at least a month or two more--that will be the best indication we have that the variants aren't overcoming vaccination.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01222-5

[54-46]

My kid may soon be vaccine eligible. I need to track her so this could be a win-win! Anyone have a line on how to use the Bill Gates micro-tracking embedded in the vaccine?

[dan_pdx]

. And if you question that choice, they will point to all the chemicals we have ingested in out lifetime that latter were shown to be detrimental. That personal calculation can change as more information is available.

Makes sense on the surface, but does that mean they gave up all cured meats, non-organic dairy products, use of any household chemicals with a State of CA warning label, etc? I'm guessing not.

[subtle plague]

My kid may soon be vaccine eligible. I need to track her so this could be a win-win! Anyone have a line on how to use the Bill Gates micro-tracking embedded in the vaccine?

You need windows Vista. So it might be a lose lose situation.

[wooley12]

As a rule, I double mask when shopping with an N95 under my custom message mask of the day. No mask outside if I'm on dirt. Single mask if I'm outside on concrete or black top. Like avalanche avoidance, it's situational.

[CarlMega]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01222-5

That the mRNA vaccines are likely to offer substantial protections in the current variants is a godsend. And even more of reason that we should collectively embrace the medical marvel our immunization community has delivered.

Exercising patience - through masks and social distancing - as we establish the body of evidence to prove this effectiveness is sound policy. It honors that being risk-adverse will ensure that gains made by past restrictions and vaccine adoption won't be undermined should that effectiveness not be realized or new variants introduced.

[highangle]

not to mention that the far left has frequently objected to "the man" and the right has objected to anything associated with government. So many people, on both sides of the political spectrum, have been indoctrinated into the idea that government is not to be trusted, even if it's not based in any recent facts.

"Hillary made us do it!"

[schuss]

I see your analogy and that's certainly true in one direction, but it's also true in the other direction, as in it's like the other person in the car accosting someone for unbuckling their seat belt after the car's come to a stop. They're ready to get out of the car and go on about their day but the scared passenger doesn't want either to take off their seatbelts yet in case the car accidentally starts moving again.

There's certainly a divide these days about that. One side is yelling at the other for still wearing their masks post-vaccination because it feels unnecessary. The opposite side is yelling at the other for NOT wearing their masks post-vaccination because it makes them feel scared.

I wasn't aware that car accidents are a communicable disease. If we want to be accurate about your analogy, it's more like someone unbuckling as you hit the offramp from the highway, not being parked, as we're only 58.5% (cite: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...tatracker-home) with their first shot.

[uglymoney]

They call me a signaler when i drive the Prius. Or wear a mask. I don't fucking care what they think. It is just another excuse to hate on people different than them.

I have a store I go to where both people that work there are fully vaxxed. They are the only ones in the store (before it opens). They have never worn masks. I always have. The door stays wide open while I am there so fresh air and well ventilated. There is cameras and the corporate policy is to always wear a mask in the store.

If it wasn't for the cameras I would be done with the mask when I service that location. I might be done anyway soon enough. This is where the science says it is clearly okay to not wear a mask, but the rules haven't really caught up yet. We do shit like wear a shirt into a gas station on hot days even though there is no scientific justification. It is just the norm. So wearing a mask when it isn't scientifically justified isn't really out of bounds from all the other stupid shit we do.

[ticketchecker]

https://youtu.be/lesTkxvcSFw


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[uglymoney]

I still wear a mask in close settings, don't eat indoors at restaurants etc because we don't have good data on the effectiveness of the vaccines on all the variants (the Indian one seems to be a particular concern to the WHO) as well as their transmissibility and lethality. The idea that the vaccinated have near zero chance of getting seriously ill or dying is based on the Phase 3 trials which were largely pre-variant. Restaurants around here are supposed to be 25%. Many aren't open indoors; those that are make no attempt to limit occupancy. I'll ease up after I see the numbers continue to fall for at least a month or two more--that will be the best indication we have that the variants aren't overcoming vaccination.

I'm with you. We have an unvaxxed 11 yo. I want to see the numbers come down. Going to bars wasn't a very important part of my life before the pandemic so no need for that. Going to restaurants this time of year I'd rather eat outside anyway.

Restaurants around here are mostly fully open and business is booming. Covids is remaining steady instead of dropping even though this county at least is (edit) a couple three percentage points above the national average for vaxx rates. The infection rate has been incredibly steady since March 5th. Imagine if people unvaccinated people weren't acting like idiots. Shit would be over for now.

[KQ]

I watching the metrics in my community and that, along with businesses taking down thier signs, will determine when I stop wearing a mask indoors.

What compounds my issue is that I live in a tourist town and lately out-of-towners have been pouring in from all over Washington, Oregon and Idaho bringing their potential Covid and it's varients with them.

Further compounding it is the fluticasone propionate that I've been taking for a sinus infection. It carries a warning that it may decrease my ability to fight off viruses.

[old goat]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01222-5

That article doesn't consider the B.1.617 strain from India, or any yet-to-arise variants. I'm not suggesting wearing a mask forever. Case numbers will be the best indicator, especially breathrough case numbers.

[bennymac]

It used to be "it's just the flu" and "why aren't we doing Sweden?!" were posted every week in here - and then it would be slapped down only to rise up again a few pages later.

Now those same scholars are here doing it with "why are you wearing a mask outdoors/in the car by yourself / if you are vaccinated?" and trying to frame it as some downfall of society and child abuse etc - and they got slapped down last week but here we go again.

I miss them being idiots with the "just a flu" schtick - those were simpler times.

[KQ]

It used to be "it's just the flu" and "why aren't we doing Sweden?!" were posted every week in here - and then it would be slapped down only to rise up again a few pages later.

Now those same scholars are here doing it with "why are you wearing a mask outdoors/in the car by yourself / if you are vaccinated?" and trying to frame it as some downfall of society and child abuse etc - and they got slapped down last week but here we go again.

I miss them being idiots with the "just a flu" schtick - those were simpler times.

[ticketchecker]

Last I checked we’re still in a global pandemic and wearing masks is part of how we get as many people as possible through it. Same goes for vax


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[GoldMember]

That article doesn't consider the B.1.617 strain from India, or any yet-to-arise variants.

Well, there is at least some glimmer of hope with the India variant. As for yet-to-arise, obviously nobody knows.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ant-from-india

[bodywhomper]

Now that mask mandates are dropped where I live, I try to let the science guide me. Indoors within 6 feet of people for 15 minutes? It's still a good idea to mask....

The current science does not support the 6 feet/15 minute exposure theory. The CDC has finally gotten on-board with this "new" information and has finally changed its public-facing information about transmission but without a new rule of thumb for us lay folks to follow other than continue to wear a mask:

Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from inhalation of virus in the air farther than six feet from an infectious source can occur
With increasing distance from the source, the role of inhalation likewise increases. Although infections through inhalation at distances greater than six feet from an infectious source are less likely than at closer distances, the phenomenon has been repeatedly documented under certain preventable circumstances. These transmission events have involved the presence of an infectious person exhaling virus indoors for an extended time (more than 15 minutes and in some cases hours) leading to virus concentrations in the air space sufficient to transmit infections to people more than 6 feet away, and in some cases to people who have passed through that space soon after the infectious person left. Per published reports, factors that increase the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection under these circumstances include:

-Enclosed spaces with inadequate ventilation or air handling within which the concentration of exhaled respiratory fluids, especially very fine droplets and aerosol particles, can build-up in the air space.
-Increased exhalation of respiratory fluids if the infectious person is engaged in physical exertion or raises their voice (e.g., exercising, shouting, singing).
-Prolonged exposure to these conditions, typically more than 15 minutes.

That article doesn't consider the B.1.617 strain from India, or any yet-to-arise variants. I'm not suggesting wearing a mask forever. Case numbers will be the best indicator, especially breathrough case numbers.

Paul Offit is on the FDA committee that issues the EUA, he's co-invented a rotavirus vax, and he's Director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia as well as the Maurice R. Hilleman Professor of Vaccinology and a Professor of Pediatrics at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. He's gone on the record recently stating that he wears a mask in public places because of the variants, uncertainty of the current vax efficacy to the variants, and the potential that there are "new" variants actively being spread in a community that have not yet been identified amongst the community and as being a concern for the larger public (he lives in a dense urban area).

[singlecross]

Maine incentivizing people to get vaccinated with fishing and hunting licenses, park passes, ballgame and motor sports tickets, and LLBean gift cards...

[old goat]

In a scenario the CDC describes where an infected person and a potential infected person are spending significant time in an enclosed space without excellent ventilation and filtration--in other words restaurant, bar, workplace--it's not clear to me that even masks on both parties would be highly protective unless they were well fitted N95's (and in the first two obviously masks could not be worn at all times by the patrons). Vaccination would certainly help.

I am not rigid about avoiding the scenario--I spent a fair amount of time inside a hospital a couple of times recently for tests. Since the pandemic started the worst place has been the Truckee PO--after spending a long time waiting a couple of times and finally leaving I gave up ordering anything large from Amazon--always USPS here and you have to pick up at the PO.

[bodywhomper]

There was an outbreak amongst staff at my local post office. I now have a new mail carrier as a result (IDK what happened to her other than that she got sick).

my 15 year old is now scheduled for shot #1 on friday afternoon.

[yeahman]

Went to the health club today to use the pool and hot tub--no masks on employees or patrons. Went to the tire shop--no masks. Went to the pizza place to pick up dinner--no masks. Masks are a thing of the past here, unless you go to Costco or Target or a national chain store, or a school. Not saying it's good or bad, just the way it is.

Now that our legislature has blackmailed counties into conforming to state restrictions (which are currently zero) or lose funding, it's pretty much full steam ahead, damn the torpedos. Be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few months. So far active cases statewide seem to be hovering around 1,000 for the past couple months.

[goldenboy]

Ohio ftw with their $1M a week lottery for anyone who gets the vax.

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