To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[bodywhomper]

It's easy to get worked up and wish death on antivaxxers but then it actually happens and it is totally heartbreaking and unsatisfying.

Sorry for your friend and your loss.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

All the anti-vax conspiracy theory types that I know and (used to frequently) interact with, I know them because of their children and their relationship with my children. It’ll be crushing when/if this starts happening with those adults. My wife has parents of several children that she works with that now have long covid.

[old goat]

my sister told us after like 70 yrs she is now a libertarian and intends to ride out the Covid unvaxed

she is stupid but at least not stupid enough to also be a covid denier but it would be easier if she was

i think she just shopped that belief cuz she is chicken

I think she's got libertarianism and Christian Science mixed up.

So, managed to score a vaxx time for tomorrow.

Got me thinking what to do with the seasonal allergy medicines? Have taken the normal over the counters stuff intermittently for the last couple of weeks, but as the main pollen season picking up, wondering if one should carry on taking the medicines or stepping back?

Found couple (dated) articles that stated that they shouldn't affect the immunisation, but is there more current data available?
Mofro? Multi? Bueller?

The one allergy medication I would be concerned about would be an intranasal steroid spray. like Flonase. No evidence that I found on a quick google search, but nasal allergies are an overreaction of the immune system in the nose to antigens. Nasal steroids reduce the immune reaction. To the extent that the innate immune system in the nasopharynx protects against coronavirus (does it?) it would seem hypothetically possible that nasal steroids would reduce that protection. My totally unreliable anecdotal personal experience is that I seem to get a cold (a coronavirus?) every year during allergy season when I'm using nasal steroids and rarely the rest of the year.) Last spring when we were stuck in Sacramento I skipped the nasal steroids and found that a mask works better anyway.

[Gcooker]

I think she's got libertarianism and Christian Science mixed up.



The one allergy medication I would be concerned about would be an intranasal steroid spray. like Flonase. No evidence that I found on a quick google search, but nasal allergies are an overreaction of the immune system in the nose to antigens. Nasal steroids reduce the immune reaction. To the extent that the innate immune system in the nasopharynx protects against coronavirus (does it?) it would seem hypothetically possible that nasal steroids would reduce that protection. My totally unreliable anecdotal personal experience is that I seem to get a cold (a coronavirus?) every year during allergy season when I'm using nasal steroids and rarely the rest of the year.) Last spring when we were stuck in Sacramento I skipped the nasal steroids and found that a mask works better anyway.

Oddly, if I don't use flonase during allergy season I end up with a sinus infection and tinnitus.

[KQ]

I think she's got libertarianism and Christian Science mixed up.



The one allergy medication I would be concerned about would be an intranasal steroid spray. like Flonase. No evidence that I found on a quick google search, but nasal allergies are an overreaction of the immune system in the nose to antigens. Nasal steroids reduce the immune reaction. To the extent that the innate immune system in the nasopharynx protects against coronavirus (does it?) it would seem hypothetically possible that nasal steroids would reduce that protection. My totally unreliable anecdotal personal experience is that I seem to get a cold (a coronavirus?) every year during allergy season when I'm using nasal steroids and rarely the rest of the year.) Last spring when we were stuck in Sacramento I skipped the nasal steroids and found that a mask works better anyway.

My prescription intranasal steroid spray does warn that it can make you suseptable to some viruses.

[bennymac]

To be clear I think we need to make a distinction - nasal steroid spray may weaken your immune response in that area and could in theory make covid infection via the nose more likely if exposed. Lots of factors at play here (how long have you been using the spray, how much virus did you get into your nose, how strong is your immune system in general, age, other medical conditions, have you had one vaccine/two vaccines/no vaccines etc)

Nasal steroid spray being absorbed into your body to a level that it could affect your response to a vaccine in a negative way is highly unlikely in my opinion but I bet it’s been studied so smarter people may correct me. (just to circle back to the “I got a vax appointment coming up - what do I do about allergy treatments I’m on?” question) one could skip a couple days of use prior to vax appointment and restart a couple days after if they wanted to. If you’ve been using the spray for awhile you’ll still get some benefit/protection for a few days after stopping.

[k2skier112]

1st jab of Pfizer scheduled for tomorrow

[4matic]

Good friend had 2nd Pfizer last Sunday. Dead today. He’s alcoholic in poor health but still. My Internist said she almost went to emergency. I had serious anaphylaxis reaction three days after Moderna 2.

[abraham]

Yeah, I know. Still a ton of friends that think it is a left wing conspiracy, Bill Gates propaganda, etc. and refuse. Others say, if it is my time, its my time. All BS.

He was a good guy. We had shot pool together for several years. Just retired. He and his high school sweetheart of 40 years were getting ready to move to Charleston. Hate to say it, but sometimes you can't fix stupid.

Yeah like he said it's easy to dismiss these things as just numbers or the natural outcome of refusing to take it seriously but it still sucks and there's still a community of people who feel the effects. Sorry about your friend.

My wife has parents of several children that she works with that now have long covid.

Struggling with that sentence, the kids or the parents have it?

[bodywhomper]

Sorry ^^, the whole families got it and several adults now have long covid. Hard to tell about the kids because they already have disabilities.

FDA EUA’d for Pfizer for 12-15 year olds. What other approvals else has to happen for it to be available?

[bennymac]

Good friend had 2nd Pfizer last Sunday. Dead today. He’s alcoholic in poor health but still. My Internist said she almost went to emergency. I had serious anaphylaxis reaction three days after Moderna 2.

There are different types of allergic reactions - anaphylaxis (which is one type of allergic reaction) can be delayed but that length of time would be at the extreme. To be clear I’m not saying you didn’t have a bad reaction - could be anaphylaxis or could be another type of allergic reaction.

There also needs to be consideration given for what is an immune system response to the vaccine and what is an allergic reaction.

If you eat shrimp you’re not supposed to have your throat swell up and kill you - but that type of reaction can happen if you are allergic to shrimp - your immune system responds to the shrimp inappropriately.

If you get a vaccination it’s supposed to trigger your immune system. The symptoms you might get could be looked at as an appropriate response of your immune system.

Real vibes for you on the loss of your good friend that’s awful.

[californiagrown]

If you get a vaccination it’s supposed to trigger your immune system. The symptoms you might get could be looked at as an appropriate response of your immune system.

Vibes to any virus that tries to fuck with my immune system. It took the Shock & Awe approach to dealing with the J&J vaccine.

[old goat]

Oddly, if I don't use flonase during allergy season I end up with a sinus infection and tinnitus.

Not odd. Nasal congestion obstructs the sinuses and Eustachian tubes. The obstruction of the sinuses can lead to infection and the obstructed Eustachian tubes can lead to pressure in the middle ear which can cause tinnitus.

To be clear I think we need to make a distinction - nasal steroid spray may weaken your immune response in that area and could in theory make covid infection via the nose more likely if exposed. Lots of factors at play here (how long have you been using the spray, how much virus did you get into your nose, how strong is your immune system in general, age, other medical conditions, have you had one vaccine/two vaccines/no vaccines etc)

Nasal steroid spray being absorbed into your body to a level that it could affect your response to a vaccine in a negative way is highly unlikely in my opinion but I bet it’s been studied so smarter people may correct me. (just to circle back to the “I got a vax appointment coming up - what do I do about allergy treatments I’m on?” question) one could skip a couple days of use prior to vax appointment and restart a couple days after if they wanted to. If you’ve been using the spray for awhile you’ll still get some benefit/protection for a few days after stopping.

I wouldn't expect nasal steroids to be absorbed systemically in a concentration that would affect vaccination success. A hypothetical concern for the vaccinated person is that nasal steroids might allow infection of the nasopharynx which could potentially be transmitted to someone else, while the vaccine generated immunity would keep the person from developing symptomatic Covid. Totally speculative on my part.

Good friend had 2nd Pfizer last Sunday. Dead today. He’s alcoholic in poor health but still. My Internist said she almost went to emergency. I had serious anaphylaxis reaction three days after Moderna 2.

What were the symptoms of your anaphylaxis? An anaphylactic reaction is immediate.

[PNWbrit]

Good friend had 2nd Pfizer last Sunday. Dead today. He’s alcoholic in poor health but still. My Internist said she almost went to emergency. I had serious anaphylaxis reaction three days after Moderna 2.

You're really suggesting there's a connection with the vaccine?

[4matic]

What were the symptoms of your anaphylaxis? An anaphylactic reaction is immediate.

Yep. Immediate. Dry cough and felt my lungs were filling up with struggle to breath. Had to sit up and couldn’t lie down. It might have been GERD but I was sick from the vaccine two days already. It felt dire.. Although, in recent years I get severe environmental reactions where I can’t breath. Could it be cannabis edibles triggering it? I feel like I should be carrying a pen.

[4matic]

You're really suggesting there's a connection with the vaccine?

I got really sick after moderna 2 and so did my doc. Draw your own conclusions. I made no suggestion otherwise.

[riser4]

Yep. Immediate. Dry cough and felt my lungs were filling up with struggle to breath. Had to sit up and couldn’t lie down. It might have been GERD but I was sick from the vaccine two days already. It felt dire.. Although, in recent years I get severe environmental reactions where I can’t breath. Could it be cannabis edibles triggering it? I feel like I should be carrying a pen.

Maybe you have asthma?

[bennymac]

Yep. Immediate. Dry cough and felt my lungs were filling up with struggle to breath. Had to sit up and couldn’t lie down. It might have been GERD but I was sick from the vaccine two days already. It felt dire.. Although, in recent years I get severe environmental reactions where I can’t breath. Could it be cannabis edibles triggering it? I feel like I should be carrying a pen.

Anaphylaxis would typically happen immediately after the injection (or not long after).

3 days later having “immediate” onset of symptoms is not typical of anaphylaxis.

Not saying it was the edibles but I’d wager anyone who has done edibles has had that “omg I’m gonna die should i go to the hospital” panic attack episode

[4matic]

Maybe you have asthma?

No

[riser4]

Anaphylaxis would typically happen immediately after the injection (or not long after).

3 days later having “immediate” onset of symptoms is not typical of anaphylaxis.

Not saying it was the edibles but I’d wager anyone who has done edibles has had that “omg I’m gonna die should i go to the hospital” panic attack episode

Does thinking that you are already dead count?

[4matic]

Anaphylaxis would typically happen immediately after the injection (or not long after).

3 days later having “immediate” onset of symptoms is not typical of anaphylaxis.

Not saying it was the edibles but I’d wager anyone who has done edibles has had that “omg I’m gonna die should i go to the hospital” panic attack episode

It’s not a panic attack (I’ve had those too). So it’s anaphylaxis type of reaction. Could have been allergy or coincidence. I know how sick I felt after the shot.

[bennymac]

Yeah I want to be clear (from my earlier post) that this could definitely be an allergic reaction for sure. Be aware that anaphylaxis is but one *type* of allergic reaction.

Impossible for anyone over the internet to diagnose what you experienced (which is why I’m not trying) - but it’s in your best interest to sort this out as much as possible because just saying “I had anaphylaxis the last time I had a covid shot” is gonna potentially impede your access to future vaccines - especially for, but not limited to, covid booster shots

[4matic]

I know that and I know how to play the game. I want vaccines. And to be clear, had I rested properly instead of full speed ahead due to personal obligations I don’t think I would have had severe reaction. Rest, water, diet. Very important...next time

[chaka]

kids (13 yr old) now booked for first Pfizer shot this weekend! Seattle mags, check out allegro pediatric.

[Tri-Ungulate]

It’s not a panic attack (I’ve had those too). So it’s anaphylaxis type of reaction. Could have been allergy or coincidence. I know how sick I felt after the shot.

Yeah, no.

Anaphylaxis is not what you experienced. As many have mentioned, anaphylaxis is immediately following exposure to the offending agent, pretty much by definition, as an acute IgE mediated event. Yeah maybe rarely up to ~6H after exposure, but not something that shows up days after exposure (unless you're talking biphasic which is even rarer, requires prior treatment, and is beyond the scope of an interwebz conversation). Anaphylaxis occurs usually within the first 15' or so, which is the basis of the "15 minute observation" rule.

Sure, you may have experienced some paradoxical reaction to the vaccine, it may even have been allergic/immunologic, but as a TRG dentist, I'm gonna bet it ain't anaphylaxis.

[old goat]

Yep. Immediate. Dry cough and felt my lungs were filling up with struggle to breath. Had to sit up and couldn’t lie down. It might have been GERD but I was sick from the vaccine two days already. It felt dire.. Although, in recent years I get severe environmental reactions where I can’t breath. Could it be cannabis edibles triggering it? I feel like I should be carrying a pen.

I got really sick after moderna 2 and so did my doc. Draw your own conclusions. I made no suggestion otherwise.

Like Bennymac said, anaphylaxis would be minutes after the shot. Certainly could be some other vaccine reaction, so from your standpoint it probably doesn't matter, other than if you tell a HCW you had an anaphylactic reaction to it, it might affect your ability to get some other vaccine, like the one for cancer they're working on (may you never need it.)
GERD can do that if it's bad enough. Almost killed my wife--shock, extremely low blood oxygen, very low blood pressure, pneumonia. We think she refluxed and aspirated. Fortunately she recovered pretty quickly.
Riser's diagnosis is possible too. Cannabis edibles don't sound like a likely suspect.
But you already have a doctor--don't listen to us.
In any case, there's no doubt that some people have some pretty significant side effects from the shot and some have none. It seems like the range of reactions is wider than for most vaccinations, just like the range of reactions to the virus is so variable.

In the meantime--tetanus shots don't even help 4G.

(apologies for repeating what several other people have already said._