To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**GoldMember** · 02-15-2021, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by jono

Not that this justifies it, but maybe it tempers it a little:

Dinner partiers jumping the line is not all bad: if we self-selected based on concern about the virus (which is happening in a few ways) we'd wind up vaccinating the most careful people first. Which would certainly be more fair and would probably help death/hospitalization numbers, but it wouldn't slow the spread as much as getting the collaborators out of the way.

While I agree with your take, it doesn't justify the pure selfishness of what they're doing. We've been purposely avoiding situations where we'd expose or be exposed by following the guidelines but they seemingly feel they're better than that. There's a lot more history here with her but, that's a totally different series of stories. Suffice to say that we really don't spend any time together.

I agree with your premise in that I would like to see restaurants open at 25-50% capacity with the necessary precautions in place to minimize transmission. I think that's a much better way to control it rather than having people having private gatherings with no precautions, which is shown to be a much larger spreader problem than restaurants. If they could socially gather in controlled environments, they'd be less likely to gather like they do. At least, that's my thinking on it.

As for my SIL, their justification for this is just bullshit. Add to it that she's bragging to people about getting their shots, even though it's obvious they're cheating. That's just dumb. She should just shut up.

**old goat** · 02-15-2021, 11:19 AM

I sure hope someone is working on monoclonal antibodies for the variants because we're going to need them when everybody who's had a shot starts acting like the pandemic is gone.

**concretejungle** · 02-15-2021, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

I sure hope someone is working on monoclonal antibodies for the variants because we're going to need them when everybody who's had a shot starts acting like the pandemic is gone.

They are already. Had plenty of dumb fucks ask if they could not wear a mask in the business I work for since they're vaccinated. Good thing I wear a mask so they couldn't hear what I mumbled under my breath. This country is soooo fucked.

**Ted Striker** · 02-15-2021, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by GoldMember

...

That's just dumb. She should just shut up.

I live in a weird neighborhood in that a decade ago everyone was working/family age and houses were affordable (sort of), but over the last five(ish) years has undergone a gentrification led by retirees. So the pandemic changed my life dramatically, but for almost everyone on my block the only difference is that they now wear masks in public. They still have weekly get togethers in their homes, their adult kids for dinner, choir practice (wtf?), "alley parties" around a mobile fire pit, and are still going on vacations. IOW, I'm surrounded by your SIL.

So all of these people are in their 60s, and not one of them has a valid reason to get vaccinated before a younger 'front line' person (all in good health as far as I know). But if one or more of them ends up vaccinated before their 65th birthday I won't begrudge them at all - even though some of them literally personify the selfish boomer stereotype - because of the random deadliness factor. It would just be safer for everybody if these people were out of the equation (and I don't mean dead) because they've shown that they're incapable of meaningful change.

**funkendrenchman** · 02-15-2021, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by concretejungle

They are already. Had plenty of dumb fucks ask if they could not wear a mask in the business I work for since they're vaccinated. Good thing I wear a mask so they couldn't hear what I mumbled under my breath. This country is soooo fucked.

Luckily, the least cautious group will be the last to get vaccinated (besides kids and those "essential" restaurant workers).

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-15-2021, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by riser3

I'm a fat person. Fuck you too. And I in no way expect my weight to bump me up in any waiting line for the 5G injection.

I'm not skinny anymore either, but I'm talking about obese. BMI over 40. Whatever that is. My guess is, you and I are in the mid to low 30s.

**XXX-er** · 02-15-2021, 01:13 PM

Yer welcome

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/edu...MI/bmicalc.htm

talking to a couple of anesthetists in the bar at a medical conference and the guy from alberta tells us they get more money for operating on Fat people so I ask is it such a big deal ? they are both like oh yeah man more work/more stress sometimes finding the right parts to cut on/ complications and then there are the reasons they are on the table in the 1st place

**old goat** · 02-15-2021, 02:04 PM

I know of one case where someone with a small frame was so obese that the surgeon trying to make an incision in the abdomen wound up missing the abdominal wall entirely and wound up off to the side of it. Fortunately they didn't cut into the OR table.

**neufox47** · 02-15-2021, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

I'm not skinny anymore either, but I'm talking about obese. BMI over 40. Whatever that is. My guess is, you and I are in the mid to low 30s.

Obese is 30, 40+ is severely obese.

Sorry but I just can’t resist the humor in this. After all your ire towards fat people to then find out you are also obese, just not quite obese enough to qualify for the vaccine, has me loling here. I thought for sure you’d be some skinny guy like FastFred or Buttahflake for all your contempt.

**4matic** · 02-15-2021, 04:37 PM

If 10% of vaccines given are to line jumpers who cares. That’s one more vaccination.

My gf owns a personal care business and has to put herself at risk everyday since it’s legal to be open now. I signed her up as a “health care worker” at MyTurn but she hasn’t gotten the call yet.

Fuck old boomers bitching about it.

**GoldMember** · 02-15-2021, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by 4matic

If 10% of vaccines given are to line jumpers who cares. That’s one more vaccination.

My gf owns a personal care business and has to put herself at risk everyday since it’s legal to be open now. I signed her up as a “health care worker” at MyTurn but she hasn’t gotten the call yet.

Fuck old boomers bitching about it.

Then just open it up without restriction. I'm happy to bitch about people who are selfish to the point of breaking the guidelines so they can throw parties while displacing spots for people much more vulnerable thereby delaying their return to normal. Either people should follow societal norms or just admit that it's all about themselves. Which it appears you represent the latter.

**Catfish** · 02-15-2021, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by concretejungle

They are already. Had plenty of dumb fucks ask if they could not wear a mask in the business I work for since they're vaccinated. Good thing I wear a mask so they couldn't hear what I mumbled under my breath. This country is soooo fucked.

We are 100% fucked as a country. I completely agree with you on that point. But the reasons why, you and I would disagree 100%. That seems like a big problem

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-15-2021, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by neufox47

Obese is 30, 40+ is severely obese.

Sorry but I just can’t resist the humor in this. After all your ire towards fat people to then find out you are also obese, just not quite obese enough to qualify for the vaccine, has me loling here. I thought for sure you’d be some skinny guy like FastFred or Buttahflake for all your contempt.

Ok, don't actually know much about BMI exactitudes so I did some googling. Looks like I'm mid to high 20's. 40 seems like it would take effort. That's like the mom in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
The man I saw hit the floor with a massive heart attack (I think he died a day or 2 later in the hospital

) was pretty slim so YMMV I guess.

**old goat** · 02-15-2021, 09:07 PM

Whether or not I have a problem with someone cutting the line depends on what they do after the shot. If they are essential worker because they put food in other people's shopping carts or because they put food on their own table, because they keep the power and water going by working for a utility or because they pay a utility bill it's fine. If they use their shots to spread the South African variant around a plane, or a house party, or wherever I have a problem. When people are faced by a crisis like a war or a pandemic there needs to be a sense that we're all making sacrifices--certainly some more than others--and that while some, like 70 year old retired doctors, have privilege, they aren't flaunting it. There will always be some who do, but when too many flaunt the rules then it becomes everyone for themselves and it's not pretty.

The problem of who to give the shots to first is one with many solutions, none of them right. The main benefit of age is it's simple. There are other rational reasons to put age first and there are rational reasons to put age last.

What we have now is the rationing of health care in the form of vaccines. The last time we had it was in the early days of kidney dialysis, when there were far more people with kidney failure than dialysis machines and no transplants and kidney failure was a death sentence. Boards met to decide who got dialysis--if I recall correctly (I was a kid) younger age and whether a person was supporting a family were the main criteria. Those probably wouldn't fly today--nursing home patients would have been last, not first, but they're better than rationing based on a person's ability to use a computer.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-15-2021, 09:09 PM

"rationing of health care"

Have you noticed that everything bad conservatives said would happen if we had socialized medicine is happening in the counrties that don't have it?

**jono** · 02-16-2021, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

"rationing of health care"

Have you noticed that everything bad conservatives said would happen if we had socialized medicine is happening in the counrties that don't have it?

Don't be fooled. The fear was always that it could be illegal for people to buy their way ahead in lines. That really hasn't happened. I mean, sure, in theory, but more people go to jail for touching up their kid's college apps.

**bodywhomper** · 02-16-2021, 12:35 AM

Been busy. What’s the current situation of the mRNA vaxes to the the versions/variants that are known to be spreading? And what about being an asymptomatic spreader after mRNA vaxes?

**XXX-er** · 02-16-2021, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

Ok, don't actually know much about BMI exactitudes so I did some googling. Looks like I'm mid to high 20's. 40 seems like it would take effort. That's like the mom in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
The man I saw hit the floor with a massive heart attack (I think he died a day or 2 later in the hospital

) was pretty slim so YMMV I guess.

I am usually normal on the cusp of overweight, i was officialy into the overweight category by .2 lbs this am but if I skip dinner and i would be normal in the am, I did some calcs I can't see ever eating my way to obesity

BMI doesnt work well for people with either a lot of muscle or no muscle, but is quick and dirty for a GP telling you it would be a good for your health to lose 10lbs

the last guy to tell me the BMI doesnt work for him was short & 100lbs overweight

**GoldMember** · 02-16-2021, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I am usually normal on the cusp of overweight, i was officialy into the overweight category by .2 lbs this am but if I skip dinner and i would be normal in the am, I did some calcs I can't see ever eating my way to obesity

BMI doesnt work well for people with either a lot of muscle or no muscle, but is quick and dirty for a GP telling you it would be a good for your health to lose 10lbs

the last guy to tell me the BMI doesnt work for him was short & 100lbs overweight

Heh.. I'm guessing waist to height ratio wasn't working well for him, either.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-16-2021, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I am usually normal on the cusp of overweight, i was officialy into the overweight category by .2 lbs this am but if I skip dinner and i would be normal in the am, I did some calcs I can't see ever eating my way to obesity

BMI doesnt work well for people with either a lot of muscle or no muscle, but is quick and dirty for a GP telling you it would be a good for your health to lose 10lbs

the last guy to tell me the BMI doesnt work for him was short & 100lbs overweight

True. I am very broad shouldered and if I really weight trained, I'd be huge. When I turned 25, I was in PT for my shoulder so I got big. It was weird being a hulky nerd. Then a lot of it melted down to my belly, but I can still legit flex my pex through a shirt. I never had pecs before then, I was a skinny and weak little shit.
6' and 205lbs doesn't seem too unhealthy. I can get under 200 mountain biking a lot in the summer too, weeeeee.
As the great Brett Kavenaugh once said, I like beer.
And obviously, I'm being sarcastic. Fuck Brett. Entitled, partisan douche canoe.

**Catfish** · 02-16-2021, 06:26 PM

I have a question that’s been bugging me that I hope someone can answer.

We are told that masking and distancing works. We are told that vaccines work. We are told that even when vaccinated we will still need to mask and distance.

I don’t understand how all 3 can be true at the same time. Maybe someone can explain that to me. And don’t worry, I certainly won’t be taking one of your precious vaccines, I’m just trying to understand,

**wooley12** · 02-16-2021, 06:41 PM

"Don't think Wooley, you weaken the team." Coach Fitch, JV football 1964.

Just run the play the coach sends in.

**GoldMember** · 02-16-2021, 06:45 PM

Vaccinations have 95% efficacy and aren't yet very far along so, not a lot of value there, yet. 95% efficacy also translates into 5% ineffective on average. Even once the majority of people are vaccinated, from what I understand, they can still potentially get Covid but either be asymptomatic or very mild cases. Even if their immune system responds and keeps them from becoming sick, they can still possibly be transmissible by having short stints of virus exposure that can be in the nose and transmitted through sneezing or by contact on the hands that transfers to other surfaces, etc.

Masks and social distancing are still very much in play since the vaccinations aren't wide spread and, again, there's possible transmission, even by those who have been vaccinated. To some extent, these may be redundant precautions but redundancy is more diligent than throwing the doors open for all to be exposed. Over time, this will all change as vaccinations do their part and the virus runs out of places to go. The sooner, the better, before variants become the dominate case. Besides, I think we all want to get back to normal as soon as possible but until we can get this thing back in the bottle, we just need to make some sacrifices. The more we abide by the guidelines, the sooner this gets controlled.

And yes, I know you don't believe it even exists but, in the off-chance you're wrong, you're not being asked to sacrifice all that much and the long term benefits would seemingly outweigh the inconveniences of wearing a mask or maintaining social distancing.