What's the number?

[shroom]

we wfh in our jammies

[XXX-er]

there were always bathrobe guys but you had to be good enough that they had no idea what you were doing

so they locked the doors from the outside

[neufox47]

I don't see retiring before 65 so being retired for half my working life is out of the picture. Heck, I'm in my 50s so it's right on the cusp of being out of the picture even if I retired tomorrow.

I wasn’t counting the first 22 years, only working years. College, grad school, etc doesn’t count in my formula.

[neufox47]

I think this is all true and I'm sure many people did die within three years of retirement, I just don't believe most people died within three years of retirement.

My company has had a ton of people die before they retire. Earning ability continues to go up throughout our careers so many stay in the game until they are 70+. We had one guy recently get forced out at 84, he’d fall asleep at his desk daily, fell asleep during a WebEx with a client, etc. pre-Covid he’d still come by the office at least once a week. A few times a few of his co-workers put him to work while he was there.

Another guy kept getting pulled back in by his friends asking him to take on “one more case”. Then he died stressed out preparing for a big meeting on the street of a heart attack in NY.

Our afflictions are stress, long work days, lack of exercise, and generous expense accounts. A good expense account can take a major toll on your health. All those steaks, drinks, etc.

[GoldMember]

I think this is all true and I'm sure many people did die within three years of retirement, I just don't believe most people died within three years of retirement.

I can't remember all the details behind this but I remember about 20 years ago when LTV Steel went bankrupt. Their pension plan was contractually bound to pay essentially nearly full pay upon retirement, including health and dental, until death. The lifetime guarantee had been signed into by management a couple of decades or longer, prior to the BK. At the time of the bankruptcy, there were more people on the pension roles than actively worked within the company. The pension was already upside down, then there was a market retraction and the company couldn't right the ship. What was revealed out of that was that the lifetime guarantee had been signed into at a time where three things ultimately brought it down: 1. - At the time, average life expectancy of a retiree was just short of 67 years old (death less than two years after retirement). 2. - Continuing growth and active employee numbers would bolster payouts. Modernization and market shrink actually caused a reduction in the number of contributing employees. 3. - Stock market volatility caused a dramatic shrink in the plan which already had nearly $2B in unfunded liabilities.

The big one that sticks out is that the average life expectancy for the retirees increased substantially from the time of the guarantee and the company failure.

[Danno]

I wasn’t counting the first 22 years, only working years. College, grad school, etc doesn’t count in my formula.

even so, if I retired today I would have to make it to 82 or so to be retired half my working life. Given that I don't see retiring for another 12 years or so, at best...

[JimmyCarter]

nawww it’s more like money is so cheap to those with money, the disparity in one’s ability to exponentially make money without working via leverage is supporting inflation only a small % can actually back with their monthly nut

“we all get crazy low rates” reads like you’re in a bubble (know you’re not that type). i’ve never had a loan on an asset in my life.

the stock market plays and mortgage refinancing every 6 mo is a luxury the median doesn’t have or likely even understand

I was really just commenting on the lack of interest on savings, but yes, the breakdown is disproportionate by population.

Capital share of economy continues to expand vs labor share of economy, and that's not going to get better any time soon (or really anytime ever short of some type of active measure or total system collapse)

[skaredshtles]

I wasn’t counting the first 22 years, only working years. College, grad school, etc doesn’t count in my formula.

I don't think that I had a "real" job until I was around 26. I think if I retire when I should, I will easily get more retirement years than working years. Unless I die when I should...

[El Chupacabra]

even so, if I retired today I would have to make it to 82 or so to be retired half my working life. Given that I don't see retiring for another 12 years or so, at best...

[XXX-er]

My company has had a ton of people die before they retire. Earning ability continues to go up throughout our careers so many stay in the game until they are 70+. We had one guy recently get forced out at 84, he’d fall asleep at his desk daily, fell asleep during a WebEx with a client, etc. pre-Covid he’d still come by the office at least once a week. A few times a few of his co-workers put him to work while he was there.

Another guy kept getting pulled back in by his friends asking him to take on “one more case”. Then he died stressed out preparing for a big meeting on the street of a heart attack in NY.

Our afflictions are stress, long work days, lack of exercise, and generous expense accounts. A good expense account can take a major toll on your health. All those steaks, drinks, etc.

My buddy the lawyer used to say that lawyers were some of the most stressed out/fucked up/ un organized/confrontational people you can find

he was not disorganized, rode bikes, skied, had a sewing mc, all kinds of stuff the other lawyers thot was wierd shit

[The AD]

My company has had a ton of people die before they retire. Earning ability continues to go up throughout our careers so many stay in the game until they are 70+. We had one guy recently get forced out at 84, he’d fall asleep at his desk daily, fell asleep during a WebEx with a client, etc. pre-Covid he’d still come by the office at least once a week. A few times a few of his co-workers put him to work while he was there.

A guy I worked with finally retired this year after 68 years at Boeing. He started during the Korean War in 1952. I don't think there's any way he would have retired if not for WFH forced by the pandemic. He was probably the only person at the company who still came in every day wearing a suit and tie. He was always at his desk when I got to the office at 6:30 and often still there when I left at 4:00. I hope he enjoys a long retirement.

[Danno]

My buddy the lawyer used to say that lawyers were some of the most stressed out/fucked up/ un organized/confrontational people you can find

really depends on what type of practice you're in, both subject matter and organization. What you say is no doubt true of many lawyers but not all.

[XXX-er]

Glen told me simplisticaly it was his job to organize people, they were in trouble cuz they got all fucked up and disorganized, he was very proud of how fast he could close a file

between runs we used to talk law on the chair not the specifics of course due to client priviledge but he would thro out scenerios and ask what I think should happen and why ... very interesting

[Benny Profane]

I can't remember all the details behind this but I remember about 20 years ago when LTV Steel went bankrupt. Their pension plan was contractually bound to pay essentially nearly full pay upon retirement, including health and dental, until death. The lifetime guarantee had been signed into by management a couple of decades or longer, prior to the BK. At the time of the bankruptcy, there were more people on the pension roles than actively worked within the company. The pension was already upside down, then there was a market retraction and the company couldn't right the ship. What was revealed out of that was that the lifetime guarantee had been signed into at a time where three things ultimately brought it down: 1. - At the time, average life expectancy of a retiree was just short of 67 years old (death less than two years after retirement). 2. - Continuing growth and active employee numbers would bolster payouts. Modernization and market shrink actually caused a reduction in the number of contributing employees. 3. - Stock market volatility caused a dramatic shrink in the plan which already had nearly $2B in unfunded liabilities.

The big one that sticks out is that the average life expectancy for the retirees increased substantially from the time of the guarantee and the company failure.

This is why many municipal and state plans will fail. Politicians bargained away the future for present day cops, fireman, and sometimes teachers. There are cops in the northeast that will make more in retirement than working, with benefits. COLA helps, but, retiring at 50/55 doesn't even need COLA to do that. Then, like military guys, they go off and score a second pension based job. Nice.

[Benny Profane]

A guy I worked with finally retired this year after 68 years at Boeing. He started during the Korean War in 1952. I don't think there's any way he would have retired if not for WFH forced by the pandemic. He was probably the only person at the company who still came in every day wearing a suit and tie. He was always at his desk when I got to the office at 6:30 and often still there when I left at 4:00. I hope he enjoys a long retirement.

Dead in two years.

[XXX-er]

i wonder if buddy with 68 years at Boeing was still wearing the suit while working form home ?

making that jump from working to retired is just not as easy as some people think, the people who say they know what they would do in retiremeent have never worked long enough to retire and the guy who has worked long enough to retire is habituated to showing up for work so some folks fail at retirement and just go back to work

[GoldMember]

i wonder if buddy with 68 years at Boeing was still wearing the suit while working form home ?

making that jump from working to retired is just not as easy as some people think, the people who say they know what they would do in retiremeent have never worked long enough to retire and the guy who has worked long enough to retire is habituated to showing up for work so some folks fail at retirement and just go back to work

^^ This. I've "failed" twice at retirement. I just got bored, even though I was skiing/golfing/biking as much as I wanted, I still had too much time on my hands. I'll try it again within the coming year but I'm not really in a hurry. I actually enjoy my work so why quit?

[Buster Highmen]

I guess I've had a hard time stopping. I could have a few years ago, but I wanted to do more.
Work was like puzzles and it was incredibly satisfying to figure out how to put things together that did something.

But I sure as hell got sick of the climbers, the goody-lookers who'd lie and fuck shit up.
Most of all, I feel weird just making money on investments, like it's not really an income.

[GiBo]

I wasn’t counting the first 22 years, only working years. College, grad school, etc doesn’t count in my formula.

I don't think that I had a "real" job until I was around 26. I think if I retire when I should, I will easily get more retirement years than working years. Unless I die when I should...

Fucking trustfunders. I worked a minimum of 4 hours a day since I was 15. Started full-time at 18. Worked swing to put myself through college. I'm counting all that shit.

The good news is that that college job had retirement. In 6 months I'll be 55 and have 29 years in a 2%@55 pension. My current employer is exempt from SS, so I have a 503b, which I have a good chuck of money in (I still qualify for SS from my other jobs, although it will be small).

It's all been in the far off distance for so long. I've been kicking around options, never really deciding on anything for sure. Now it's getting close and I need to start planning.

Option 1: Be a pussy and stay at a job I don't enjoy for 8 more years until I max out at 63 (would add about 30%).

Option 2: Retire. Buy some land, raise food, smoke a lot of dope, ski, bike, fish and just be a country hippy. Wouldn't be rich, but I'd be ok.

Option 3: Retire. Take job with a buddy who's been asking me to join his small software company for years. I could make more than I'm making now AND collect retirement. Do that for a 3-5 years and stash a bunch of money and then do option 2.

I'm leaning towards 3, but somedays (ok, it's been a lot of days lately) I'm not sure I want to look at a computer again in my life.

Of course, medical is a problem. My long time SO said we could get hitched and I could get it through her, but that only gets me to maybe 60.

We used to have "lifetime" medical here, but a municipal bankruptcy ended that. Shit, half the people here would be gone if that was still in place.

Sometimes it sucks to have options.

[Mustonen]

Those poor banks only making hundreds of billions every year.

Will someone think of the banks!

Well, no, but that’s the point. The banks don’t really take not making money as an option. Not unlike any other successful business.

So when fed funds target is slammed into the ground and lending rates follow it, deposit rates drop too. Bonus: cheap money. Downside: your money is cheap.

[XXX-er]

YES ^^ the qualities that got you to retirement are the exact opposite of those that will be needed to make you sucessful in retirement

I did a variety of short term ski bum-like odd gigs with low commintment but I have never touched another computer for money, I think its good to do something completely different, oddly enough after 30 yrs as a corporate lackey how to become a ski bum was not apparent

[Danno]

I would not get sick of retirement. I might, however, get a very part time job just to get me out there and provide some structure, or maybe I'd just volunteer. I have a good job but I would not miss it.

[Benny Profane]

Problem is finding a part time gig in retirement that pays fairly. I mean, what employer wants to accommodate someone who wants to take off whenever to ski and travel? And how's that play out in office politics ruled by full timer grinders? You need a really good patron to support that.

[LeeLau]

really depends on what type of practice you're in, both subject matter and organization. What you say is no doubt true of many lawyers but not all.

You're absolutely right that it's tough to generalize all lawyers but there's one generalization I'm willing to make. The vast majority of lawyers I know (in different fields, in different countries) are finance imbeciles. The exceptions being those who run their own firms as a business. This is true of many professionals. My theory is that they are captured by expertise; so competent in their niches but myopic in their expertise.

^^ This. I've "failed" twice at retirement. I just got bored, even though I was skiing/golfing/biking as much as I wanted, I still had too much time on my hands. I'll try it again within the coming year but I'm not really in a hurry. I actually enjoy my work so why quit?

Same here. I tried sitting on the beach for six months. I couldn't sit around and do nothing and had to something mentally active. "Working" 10 hours a week, FOR ME, though is plenty. With the caveat that everyone has their own predisposition the general stereotype of 24/ farting around doesn't work into my preconception of retirement

[Danno]

Problem is finding a part time gig in retirement that pays fairly. I mean, what employer wants to accommodate someone who wants to take off whenever to ski and travel? And how's that play out in office politics ruled by full timer grinders? You need a really good patron to support that.

Well, who said anything about "pays fairly". I'd be happy working in a ski shop 1-3 days a week. And I could also potentially freelance in my field, and pick up a little work here or there, without tying myself to a schedule.