the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

**garyfromterrace** · 12-14-2020, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by EWG

Calf pressure points are gone. Sweet! Feet super cold though. I think that’s just new tight liners. It was also cold and she had no warming apparatus. I think we are gonna make this work. Just gotta break in liners I hope.

Any more ideas for warmer feet lemme know.

Just wandering around and saw this post. Is she putting fresh thin socks on immediately before putting the boots on? An hour in hot snowboots in the car before skiing is enough to make the feet/socks good and moist.

**skijosh** · 12-17-2020, 10:09 PM

I’ve been in dalbello kryptons / KR2s since 2008

Fit is getting worse and worse on my foot

Finally pulled the trigger on a 4 buckle boot with zip fits

Ended up with the Fischer Ranger Free 130.

Im shocked at how soft it feels, especially during the first 15-25% of engagement

I won’t be able to ski these

Most boots don’t fit my foot. Even the curve 130 fit weird.

Most medium volume Langes seem to fit

Will all 4 buckle boots feel soft at the top compared to a krypton? The lack of engagement at the top made skiing feel stupid hard today

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**mntlion** · 12-18-2020, 09:26 AM

did it feel weird skiing it, or inside shop flexing?

2 pr will always flex different then 3 prt, but both can be found stiff and soft, adn both are different inside vs out

**gregL** · 12-18-2020, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by skijosh

Will all 4 buckle boots feel soft at the top compared to a krypton? The lack of engagement at the top made skiing feel stupid hard today . . .

As mntlion says, 3 piece designs flex differently than 2 piece designs; it doesn't really have so much to do with the number of buckles but the fact that the tongue is separate and engages sooner in the flex pattern - this is especially evident with a wrap liner.

So, generally 2 piece boots flex softer off the top (first 5-10 degrees of the flex pattern) and gradually get stiffer the further you flex into them, while 3 piece boots are initially stiffer and the flex is more constant throughout the pattern.

You can make a 2 piece (also called overlap) boot stiffer at the beginning end of the pattern by switching to a wrap liner and running a tighter cuff circumference; you can make a 3 piece shell flex softer off the top by slotting the tongue and swapping to a tongue liner, etc.

What has changed with your feet? If you prefer the way a Krypton skis, and you used them successfully for years, it's hard to imagine a good bootfitter can't get a current KR Pro to fit. If you need a tad more volume, I'd try on one of the Roxa 99mm boots.

**123ski** · 12-18-2020, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by mntlion

did it feel weird skiing it, or inside shop flexing?

2 pr will always flex different then 3 prt, but both can be found stiff and soft, adn both are different inside vs out

Felt weird skiing.

Reading the blister review of this specific boot they seem to find that the soft initial engagement was very noticeable even for a 2 piece boot - so it may just be that I selected the wrong boot, especially if I’m used to a more instantaneous transfer of power

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**gregL** · 12-18-2020, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by 123ski

Felt weird skiing.

Reading the blister review of this specific boot they seem to find that the soft initial engagement was very noticeable even for a 2 piece boot - so it may just be that I selected the wrong boot, especially if I’m used to a more instantaneous transfer of power

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Check out the Salomon S Max 130 Carbon . . .

**123ski** · 12-18-2020, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

As mntlion says, 3 piece designs flex differently than 2 piece designs; it doesn't really have so much to do with the number of buckles but the fact that the tongue is separate and engages sooner in the flex pattern - this is especially evident with a wrap liner.

So, generally 2 piece boots flex softer off the top (first 5-10 degrees of the flex pattern) and gradually get stiffer the further you flex into them, while 3 piece boots are initially stiffer and the flex is more constant throughout the pattern.

You can make a 2 piece (also called overlap) boot stiffer at the beginning end of the pattern by switching to a wrap liner and running a tighter cuff circumference; you can make a 3 piece shell flex softer off the top by slotting the tongue and swapping to a tongue liner, etc.

What has changed with your feet? If you prefer the way a Krypton skis, and you used them successfully for years, it's hard to imagine a good bootfitter can't get a current KR Pro to fit. If you need a tad more volume, I'd try on one of the Roxa 99mm boots.

I tore both the medial and lateral ligaments in my ankle several years ago. After healing it’s caused me to probate pretty badly in my left ankle. No matter how much we punch the shell, the medial malleolus grinds on the shell. Where we need to punch it is right where the middle cable runs so that’s not helping.

My feet have also gotten wider and flatter over time. Even though my ankles are fairly narrow, so now anything less than a 100mm fore body crushes my metatarsals making my entire foot burn within minutes of stepping off the chairlift.

The Fischer boot, with zip fit and with my current orthotic took away all pain in my foot, will require some finessing to get the ankle bone exactly right, but seemed good other than the flex

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**123ski** · 12-18-2020, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by gregL

Check out the Salomon S Max 130 Carbon . . .

Thanks for the recommendation, it crushed my instep.

Seems that Lange and Fischer fit best, followed by tecnica - at least as a general rule - with some exceptions

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**gregL** · 12-18-2020, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by 123ski

Thanks for the recommendation, it crushed my instep . . .

Bootboard can be ground for more instep height and it is the stiffest "off the top" of the current crop of overlap boots. Hard to say about the maleolus and forefoot issues without seeing your foot, but I would check to see that the maleolus punch(es) are in the right place - put on just the liner, put your finger on the crest of the maleolus and mark the spot with a Sharpie after poking around a bit. Then put the liner back in your shell and see where the dot lines up (kind of hard to see this; often it's easiest to look for the indent from the cuff pivot and then measure in the direction of the maleolus on the liner then transfer to the shell). Typically maleolus punches the "don't work" are not spotted correctly (or simply need more depth).

**123ski** · 12-18-2020, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

Bootboard can be ground for more instep height and it is the stiffest "off the top" of the current crop of overlap boots. Hard to say about the maleolus and forefoot issues without seeing your foot, but I would check to see that the maleolus punch(es) are in the right place - put on just the liner, put your finger on the crest of the maleolus and mark the spot with a Sharpie after poking around a bit. Then put the liner back in your shell and see where the dot lines up (kind of hard to see this; often it's easiest to look for the indent from the cuff pivot and then measure in the direction of the maleolus on the liner then transfer to the shell). Typically maleolus punches the "don't work" are not spotted correctly (or simply need more depth).

Thanks. We’ve done that with a bunch of lasers even, we can’t quite get it in the right spot without compromising the groove for the instep buckle cables. We’ve gotten it pretty close.

I tried on every medium volume boot that my shop had and surprisingly couldn’t find anything that flexed stiffer than the ranger 130 walk. Even the ranger 130 curve and tecnica concept felt softer.

So this leads me to believe that the less linear flex and the more aggressive forward lean of the new boot is just something to get used to.

I’ll ski it a few more times and probably throw and booster on it. If that doesn’t work I’ll probably have to go to a plug boot and go down the rabbit hole of grinding out a lot of material.

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**123ski** · 12-18-2020, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

Bootboard can be ground for more instep height and it is the stiffest "off the top" of the current crop of overlap boots. Hard to say about the maleolus and forefoot issues without seeing your foot, but I would check to see that the maleolus punch(es) are in the right place - put on just the liner, put your finger on the crest of the maleolus and mark the spot with a Sharpie after poking around a bit. Then put the liner back in your shell and see where the dot lines up (kind of hard to see this; often it's easiest to look for the indent from the cuff pivot and then measure in the direction of the maleolus on the liner then transfer to the shell). Typically maleolus punches the "don't work" are not spotted correctly (or simply need more depth).

They didn’t have that Salomon boot to try on so it might be the solution if the booster doesn’t help here

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**123ski** · 12-18-2020, 09:01 PM

My friend picked up some slightly used RX130 yesterday that he’s going to let me demo tomorrow with my zipfit.

They are the low volume model so I’m hoping to learn two things.

1) how stiff is a traditional 130 boot vs a touring 130 boot

2) how does my foot handle a narrower last (we know ankle box in the rx130 fits my ankle well)

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**123ski** · 12-19-2020, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by 123ski

My friend picked up some slightly used RX130 yesterday that he’s going to let me demo tomorrow with my zipfit.

They are the low volume model so I’m hoping to learn two things.

1) how stiff is a traditional 130 boot vs a touring 130 boot

2) how does my foot handle a narrower last (we know ankle box in the rx130 fits my ankle well)

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Ended up skiing my new zip fits in a Lange RX 130 LV - best day of skiing I’ve had in at least 24 months. Would need 6th toe punched in that boot, and maybe a small punch in my ankle, but otherwise it was great.

I do wish it came in a 140+ flex and that makes me want to try on the Salomon before committing, but it’s hard to not buy a boot that made you feel fantastic the first day you skied it.

I do wish rebound was slightly faster, but I’ll just as a WC booster.

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**mntlion** · 12-19-2020, 08:04 PM

good to hear

**123ski** · 12-19-2020, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by mntlion

good to hear

Can anyone comment on stiffness of RX130 vs Tecnica M1 Concept? Tecnica technically fits my foot better out of the box, but hard to turn down the RX after how well it skied today (wish it was slightly stiffer) and I’m sure a booster will make it even better.

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**DarthMarkus** · 12-21-2020, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by 123ski

Can anyone comment on stiffness of RX130 vs Tecnica M1 Concept? Tecnica technically fits my foot better out of the box, but hard to turn down the RX after how well it skied today (wish it was slightly stiffer) and I’m sure a booster will make it even better.

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Can comment on out of the box feel for the M1 LV and the XT3 140. Not skiing though (yet). I would say they're actually pretty close in forward flex out of the box. Lateral transmission is better in the M1, but the margins are close.

**123ski** · 12-21-2020, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by DarthMarkus

Can comment on out of the box feel for the M1 LV and the XT3 140. Not skiing though (yet). I would say they're actually pretty close in forward flex out of the box. Lateral transmission is better in the M1, but the margins are close.

Thank you. After reading this, after skiing the rx130 and having a great experience, and after talking to Luke a blister - I decided to get the rx130 + WC booster and just crossing my fingers that in the future they’ll release a 140+ flex option.

Shop is letting me swap out the rangers or id try the head, but need to stay within his inventory since he’s letting me return the other boots

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**skithewest** · 12-22-2020, 07:52 PM

Hoping to find some help with this inconsistent boot issue on my right foot. Left foot fit is perfect.

Middle of last season I came off some very old Full Tilts to the 19/20 Cochise DYN 130. In both boots there's been pain and a feeling of lack of support on the distal part of the fifth metatarsal, mostly on the lateral side. It almost feels like my foot is supinating, but only from the last 2 metatarsals. It shows up after a few runs at the start of the day and goes away around 2 or 3, right when I'm about to call it for the day.

Current footbeds are relatively new. I'm thinking either a shim under that part of the footbed (this worked with the full Tilts for a brief time), or a very small sixth toe punch.

Any other ideas/thoughts/confirmation that a punch might be a good idea?

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**mntlion** · 12-22-2020, 08:05 PM

start with a shim (as its changeable) then a SMALL punch (less changeable)

**skithewest** · 12-22-2020, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by mntlion

start with a shim (as its changeable) then a SMALL punch (less changeable)

That's exactly what I'm worried about. The shim helped before, but only for a short while (weeks worth of riding). Overall I'm caught up on that they're conflicting ideas, less volume with a shim/more volume with a punch.

Trying to figure out the real issue before doing something I can't take back.

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**californiagrown** · 12-26-2020, 05:17 PM

Got lupo ax 120s this year. Love love love the fit for my weird foot, which is most important for me honestly. Plus they tour super well and consolidate gear into 1 boot quiver. Today's snow turned to heavier chop so I brought out the big stiff skis to charge on (my normal style is a little more finesse/playful)... I was really over powering the boot going fast skiing over the front and blasting through the setting up chop. I'm 6'4" 200lbs with gear so it's to be expected I guess. I have prowrap liners and expert booster straps on them already, but stock otherwise.

In lighter snow, they ski amazing in chop, but I definitely found their limit today at alpental with heavier stiffer skis. Any ideas on stiffening them up a little more?

**mntlion** · 12-26-2020, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by californiagrown

In lighter snow, they ski amazing in chop, but I definitely found their limit today at alpental with heavier stiffer skis. Any ideas on stiffening them up a little more?

buy the stiffer tongues?

Where the temps warmer too? I find with my lupos I need to beef them up in spring

**robnow** · 12-26-2020, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by californiagrown

In lighter snow, they ski amazing in chop, but I definitely found their limit today at alpental with heavier stiffer skis. Any ideas on stiffening them up a little more?

This is a VERY supportive boot and you did well to go with a better liner, what gave you the feeling that you are actually "overpowering" the boot? Remember that you are now in a boot with a more 'linear' flex vs 'progressive'.

The 120/125/130 all come with the 'P' tongue which is plenty stiff, however the Factory did come with one even stiffer marked 'B'. Not sure how easy these are to find but possibly the only option.

**123ski** · 12-26-2020, 06:47 PM

What’s the best method for molding zip fits? I’ve seen the instructions for heating the boot shell in hot water or a convection oven. This makes me wonder how much heat will degrade the flex of the cuff over time?

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**ntblanks** · 12-26-2020, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by 123ski

What’s the best method for molding zip fits? I’ve seen the instructions for heating the boot shell in hot water or a convection oven. This makes me wonder how much heat will degrade the flex of the cuff over time?

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i just wear them for a few days on the hill and they're good.

otherwise, hot rice sock method is probably what you want.

i don't bother with the shell at all whatever the old man says.