East Coast Roll Call #??? 20-21 Covid closures and hard core touring! Be Fit or Sit

[FussyDutchman]

Best for a speedy recovery to him prs.

[anotherVTskibum]

The only way people do not cross lines to ski is if there are no lifts spinning to drive to. Hate to sound like a dick but this is hard human nature fact.

As my father-in-law, who BTW is intubated and fighting for his life as I type, would say about most people's attitude towards others, fuck you I got mine.

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Best wishes to your FIL; hopefully the medical support works and he pulls through.

Re: shutting lifts, that alone may not be enough. There were a lot of out of state plates at both local ski areas last spring after lifts stopped turning, leading to no trespassing signs and blockaded parking lots. I really, really hope it doesn't come to that again...but in the scheme of things, if that's my biggest pandemic-related problem, I'm doing pretty well.

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[Dexter Rutecki]

I assume I am pointing out the obvious, but if people just come up and ski, there should be no risk of transmission. You sit on the lift by yourself or with space between you, everyone is masked (if the lift is moving that probably doesn't even matter, but masks are on), you don't go inside (and if you do you are obviously masked and not close to anyone for more than a few seconds)--if that's all that people do I don't see an issue. Now, maybe a lot of those people are going to restaurants and hanging around inside around other people, but skiing should be about as safe as it gets. Not sure what people are worried about (and I also don't understand why people are behaving as if it's perfectly acceptable as long you are only spreading to people who have the same license plate you do--if you are a risk to spread or be infected you shouldn't be doing whatever you're doing in any state).

[east or bust]

^word

[HankScorpio]

The concern around here isn’t the skiing or riding a lift; its all those extra people in stores, restaurants, gas stations, apres parties at the condo, etc that will be the problem.

Most people who come skiing for a weekend may ski for a few hours but will be shopping, eating out, partying and socializing the vast majority of the time.




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[Vt-Freeheel]

This ^^


Healing vibes to your fil prs

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

I assume I am pointing out the obvious, but if people just come up and ski, there should be no risk of transmission. You sit on the lift by yourself or with space between you, everyone is masked (if the lift is moving that probably doesn't even matter, but masks are on), you don't go inside (and if you do you are obviously masked and not close to anyone for more than a few seconds)--if that's all that people do I don't see an issue. Now, maybe a lot of those people are going to restaurants and hanging around inside around other people, but skiing should be about as safe as it gets. Not sure what people are worried about (and I also don't understand why people are behaving as if it's perfectly acceptable as long you are only spreading to people who have the same license plate you do--if you are a risk to spread or be infected you shouldn't be doing whatever you're doing in any state).

Except that's not what I saw. I saw a bunch of dumb-ass teens and 20-somethings with no masks and the poor employees trying to police them. I just stayed far away from them. And like Hank said, they don't just ski. Magic isn't even open and the number of out of state plates at the grocery store is disheartening. I see what's going on in my neighborhood so I know they are only up here for the weekends. Almost no out-of-state plates in the same store parking lot mid-week.

And vibes to PRS and his family.

[prsboogie]

Thank you all, he is making incremental improvements over the last 24 - 48 hours but it is a long scary ride. Its honestly worse for our family, my wife and I are RNs and my MIL is a retired 30 year LPN. We are all too aware and familiar with how this road twists and turns. His a tough bird though, 12 years army/ 24 years reserves Gunny Sgt and French Canadian to boot! Fingers crossed!

With all this i do agree that the day tripper who comes in skis and goes home presents little to no risk to anyone and will be punished by the entitled assholes who gives no shits about anyone else. I probably will be sticking to B.east and Wawa, possibly Catamount if we want to drive 3 hours [emoji848]

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[danmelon]

I assume I am pointing out the obvious, but if people just come up and ski, there should be no risk of transmission. You sit on the lift by yourself or with space between you, everyone is masked (if the lift is moving that probably doesn't even matter, but masks are on), you don't go inside (and if you do you are obviously masked and not close to anyone for more than a few seconds)--if that's all that people do I don't see an issue.

This is basically how they are running things in QC. If you come from a 'red' zone you can go ski, but you have to act like you are still in a red zone (no restaurants, no hanging in the lodge, no shopping, etc). Pretty much roll up, takes some laps, go home and wear a mask at all times. Pretty easy to respect if your only an hour or so away from the hill. I was however surprised by how few people wear masks.

Hope you father in law pulls through man. vibes. Really sucks. I'm not going to see my Dad this xmas as a precaution. That will make a year since i've seen him.

[Self Jupiter]

Good luck PRS. Sending vibes.

[cat in january]

[anotherVTskibum]

Except that's not what I saw. I saw a bunch of dumb-ass teens and 20-somethings with no masks and the poor employees trying to police them. I just stayed far away from them. And like Hank said, they don't just ski. Magic isn't even open and the number of out of state plates at the grocery store is disheartening. I see what's going on in my neighborhood so I know they are only up here for the weekends. Almost no out-of-state plates in the same store parking lot mid-week.

And this is a big part of the problem. Skiing itself should be nearly-zero risk (for Covid); it's the ancillary stuff that has some risk. Take, for example, lodge bathrooms; as we all know, they're universally well-ventilated and capacity is high enough that they're never crowded. Lift lines and lift rides should be minimal risk with everyone masked and spreading out, but a lot of people seem to have trouble comprehending that dealing with the smaller PITA restrictions (e.g. masks) lets us have a chance at keeping a portion of the economy open and getting to ski.

License plate color doesn't matter, but travel does; Covid-19 doesn't drive on its own, it needs to hitch a ride. So combine that with the inherent risks that we can mitigate but not eliminate—such as lodge bathrooms, because pooping on the hill creates all sorts of other public-health issues—and we get policies that attempt to mitigate risk on multiple levels because you can't eliminate it entirely without going to a true lockdown.

I'm trying not to get excited about plate color, because a lot of second-home owners have actually moved into those second homes since March, but if they could learn to drive in the snow and use turn signals, that would be nice.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Except that's not what I saw. I saw a bunch of dumb-ass teens and 20-somethings with no masks and the poor employees trying to police them. I just stayed far away from them. And like Hank said, they don't just ski. Magic isn't even open and the number of out of state plates at the grocery store is disheartening. I see what's going on in my neighborhood so I know they are only up here for the weekends. Almost no out-of-state plates in the same store parking lot mid-week.

And vibes to PRS and his family.

Yeah, well, here in NYC all the out of state plates have never gone away (including the usual number of green plates), so it's obvious people are going back and forth (and probably rarely quarantining--just saw two VT plates within a block of our place so thought of this). I do know a lot of out of staters who have essentially moved to VT, although I'm sure it's not just those people you are seeing.

My plan (for the tiny bit that I am going to be out of NYS, but also for all the days anywhere) is for us to be isolated when we're not on the hill, and just do what makes sense when we're out there, which is really easy to do. Goal is not to get infected regardless of where we are, but no reason we can't make skiing work (we will be behaving the same way we do at home, which really means we're at zero risk).

I have been up in VT twice since March (once to clean things out after the panicked departure, once over the summer for part of a day), and both times it was jarring to me to see people indoors without masks (people at the gas station walking inside and things like that). Around here you just don't see that--you'd probably be physically attacked if you tried (maybe VT mask compliance is better now, but when I saw that I knew VT's rate wouldn't stay down forever). I guess in the summer it had gotten better, but definitely in April or May (don't remember the month) I saw people going inside of places maskless. I was surprised.

And all of this is pretty easy for me regardless since my winters consist mostly of being on the hill and self-quarantine anyway (before anyone called it that--it was just known as being too exhausted to leave your place and not interested enough to do so...).

[bern43]

I assume I am pointing out the obvious, but if people just come up and ski, there should be no risk of transmission. You sit on the lift by yourself or with space between you, everyone is masked (if the lift is moving that probably doesn't even matter, but masks are on), you don't go inside (and if you do you are obviously masked and not close to anyone for more than a few seconds)--if that's all that people do I don't see an issue. Now, maybe a lot of those people are going to restaurants and hanging around inside around other people, but skiing should be about as safe as it gets. Not sure what people are worried about (and I also don't understand why people are behaving as if it's perfectly acceptable as long you are only spreading to people who have the same license plate you do--if you are a risk to spread or be infected you shouldn't be doing whatever you're doing in any state).

This is basically what we were planning on doing. We get passes at Pats Peak. With little kids it's a good easy option. The plan was for us to drive up from MA and base everything out of the car for the day. But now with the quarantine requirement coming back to Mass. it looks like we're going to have to push the season passes over to next year. I have until December 10th to let Pats Peak know. Bummer start to the season.

[JongDoe]

, but if they could learn to drive in the snow and use turn signals, that would be nice.

OK, now your're getting ridiculous

[Anospa]

Anyone know wachusett's current uphill policy? Website still saying is ok prior to lifts spinning but unclear if that is the case when they aren't even open that day for skiing?

I'm assuming it'll be a fucking shitshow this weekend.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Yeah, well, here in NYC all the out of state plates have never gone away (including the usual number of green plates), so it's obvious people are going back and forth (and probably rarely quarantining--just saw two VT plates within a block of our place so thought of this). I do know a lot of out of staters who have essentially moved to VT, although I'm sure it's not just those people you are seeing.

My plan (for the tiny bit that I am going to be out of NYS, but also for all the days anywhere) is for us to be isolated when we're not on the hill, and just do what makes sense when we're out there, which is really easy to do. Goal is not to get infected regardless of where we are, but no reason we can't make skiing work (we will be behaving the same way we do at home, which really means we're at zero risk).

I have been up in VT twice since March (once to clean things out after the panicked departure, once over the summer for part of a day), and both times it was jarring to me to see people indoors without masks (people at the gas station walking inside and things like that). Around here you just don't see that--you'd probably be physically attacked if you tried (maybe VT mask compliance is better now, but when I saw that I knew VT's rate wouldn't stay down forever). I guess in the summer it had gotten better, but definitely in April or May (don't remember the month) I saw people going inside of places maskless. I was surprised.

And all of this is pretty easy for me regardless since my winters consist mostly of being on the hill and self-quarantine anyway (before anyone called it that--it was just known as being too exhausted to leave your place and not interested enough to do so...).

Londonderry is a small place. You pretty much know who is following the guidelines and who is not. The issue is that if you come to Vermont from a place with a high infection rate and have the virus but are not symptomatic and don't follow the quarantine/testing guidelines, you can spread the virus inadvertently. As noted, if you're driving up to Vermont from the metro NYC area, there's almost no chance you're doing that without stopping.

To be fair, almost all of Vermont's recent outbreak cases are internal and caused by Vermonters gathering at Halloween parties. We're going to see another surge from Thanksgiving because people became complacent because the state was doing so well.

One thing is certain given the Governor's track record...if there's a super-spreader event that is traced back to a ski area it will almost certainly cause the end of the lift-served ski season for the entire state.

[Benny Profane]

Londonderry is a small place. You pretty much know who is following the guidelines and who is not.

Oh, please. It's like you're saying you live in Mayberry or somewhere. Do you have to break into the party line to get an urgent call out?

Like everybody in your little bubble was born there?

[Peruvian]

Oh, please. It's like you're saying you live in Mayberry or somewhere. Do you have to break into the party line to get an urgent call out?

Like everybody in your little bubble was born there?

Mayberry (although fictional) had a population 2-3x that of (the slightly less fictional) L’derry.

[buckethead]

yup skiing *should* be relatively safe ... but most people seem to lack the self-discipline needed to do it in a more bare bones manner. most of the skiing public seems wired to place the (false) comfort of normalcy above else.

hard to see how the areas will stay open through all this absent robust personal responsibility. a single forced shutdown would likely ripple through the whole *region* - and ruin it for everyone.

edit: knew we could count on benny for his special brand of contrarian wisdom

[Dexter Rutecki]

Londonderry is a small place. You pretty much know who is following the guidelines and who is not. The issue is that if you come to Vermont from a place with a high infection rate and have the virus but are not symptomatic and don't follow the quarantine/testing guidelines, you can spread the virus inadvertently. As noted, if you're driving up to Vermont from the metro NYC area, there's almost no chance you're doing that without stopping.

Sure, but that's my point--you drive up, you stop for gas (and I rarely bother with gas in VT anyway), and the most contact you have with anyone (inside) is 30-60 seconds several feet apart through a plastic partition with both parties wearing masks. No one in the history of this virus has ever been infected that way, and a gas stop is even safer--it's close contact that is the problem (which, per the CDC, is being within six feet of someone else in an enclosed space for more than a minute or two--so really very easy to safely travel to VT without risking catching something). I'm not at all worried about being infected while on the hill (outside it is very difficult to catch it, unless you're really close to someone for an extended period), and when I'm not on the hill I'm by myself (or with family) inside. That was my point--if people act the way they are hopefully acting anyway when they are at home this should be fine. I realize that it's too much to expect, for some reason, but the simple fact of people coming in from out of state to ski doesn't in itself mean there's transmission risk.

I'm not altering what I'm doing regardless of location, and I'll be damned if I'm going to catch this thing (especially when I'm hoping to be vaccinated before much longer).

[Dexter Rutecki]

yup skiing *should* be relatively safe ... but most people seem to lack the self-discipline needed to do it in a more bare bones manner. most of the skiing public seems wired to place the (false) comfort of normalcy above else.

hard to see how the areas will stay open through all this absent robust personal responsibility. a single forced shutdown would likely ripple through the whole *region* - and ruin it for everyone.

edit: knew we could count on benny for his special brand of contrarian wisdom

IMO the ski areas should be able to enforce protocols--if they are determined to do it--that would allow for a pretty risk free environment. Frankly I was surprised that Magic, for example, is going to have indoor dining at all. I think it could be a big mistake (I haven't sat down inside a restaurant since March), but I don't know how much spacing between tables they will have, which theoretically could make all the difference (still don't think I'd be willing to do it).

[buckethead]

^^ same here (dining wise). during the summer i was amazed by how many people flocked to sidewalk eateries as numbers soared - and as many eateries closed due to infections among the staff.

if the ski areas actually enforced the protocols would they be able to make any money?

for the season finale MRG had no food service and base box was for quick trips to rest room only. they requested booting up and base-lodging at cars. BYOF.

jiminy otoh (where i ended my season) was in deep denial mode. not a single indication that a pandemic had shut down all major sports, entertainment venues, mass gatherings two days earlier.
i had to fake out those who wanted to pack onto my chair every time.
and for two weeks i wondered if i'd endangered my health for one more day on the hill.

the folks that care enough to *just* ski is a minuscule segment of the market.

more than an out of state problem it's a more general out-of-mind problem, with most somewhere on that spectrum.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Bucket nailed it.

I trust Dexter at his word because he is known to me. It's the entitled dentists and stockbrokers at Stratton or
$teaux or Sugarbush that are going to fuck this up for everybody.

And, as per my norm, fuck off Benny. You don't know shit about me.

[Benny Profane]

I know that you live in a tourist town, but you think you're in some small town bubble.