Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Cono Este]

Santiago on a complete lock down now. Big spike in cases.

You need a permit to leave your house.


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[Jong Lafitte]

K wait that was a joke but I’m deleting it anyway.

Also had print media. Just saying.


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[Tri-Ungulate]

Gonna inject a tiny bit of optimism in this here thread, which is constantly in danger of going off the rails.

Everybody take this with a hudge grain of salt as anecdotal hearsay, and doubly so as HIPPAA does not allow for anything more specific.

To update one of my earlier posts, with a larger dataset, our limited experience with patients with endstage "cytokine storm" response to SARS CoV 2 seems to indicate that they may respond to IL-6 inhibition with tocilizumab. This is within our own small non-placebo controlled sample, so perhaps no more statistically significant than Raoult et al. with hydroxychoroquine. Nonetheless, IMO this is still promising, and as our findings are part of a larger multi-institutional dataset that will eventually release results, hopefully positive. Major downside is that tocilizumab is in short supply and fantastically expensive, as are all engineered monoclonal antibodies.

More encouraging is our (also) limited experience with convalescent serum in critically ill SARS CoV 2 patients - this is similarly optimistic, at least thus far. Again, I hope and expect that there should be larger-scale multi-institutional data coming out soon to buttress our own observations. As convalescent immunoglobulin does not require manufacturing scale-up and is therefore potentially at less of the whim of the exigencies of private enterprise, perhaps it will be available more widely sooner, but I'm not sure about that. At least, I believe convalescent serum can be mobilized relatively rapidly with an enthusiastic donor population, and with known risks in re: administration. Something I wish we could investigate further @LegoSkier is whether we could see whether there are more specific/effective antibodies in a per-donor approach.

I should stress that even if our findings are real, that these are not by any means solutions to the SARS CoV 2 problem. Even if successful, they are merely additional tools in the fight. Public policy and scale-up capacity are far more important in implementing any tool in a battle against such an implacable foe, and TBH I'm far less optimistic about these aspects of the equation, especially with our current administration. Prevention is far more important, and as behaviour in our country (and even from participants this thread) sadly indicates, this will remain the main concern.



YMMV of course.

[rod9301]

Is anyone coming around to ending the lockdown now that data is showing that "it's just the flu" if you are under 60?

Netherlands:
Attachment 328620
Attachment 328621

Attachment 328615
Attachment 328616
https://esb.nu/blog/20059695/we-kunn...nen-aan-corona

Spain:
Attachment 328622
https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-05-...evalencia.html
Attachment 328617

France:
Attachment 328618Attachment 328623
https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...cience.abc3517

China:
Attachment 328624
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033357v1


"Unicef warns lockdown could kill more than Covid-19 as model predicts 1.2 million child deaths"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-h...l-predicts-12/
Attachment 328619

It seems to me that the data shows a very large percentage of younger people that are infected have no or mild symptoms.

But they can still infect other people, so lockdown is still the only way to prevent this flu, haha, from spreading.

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[Vt-Freeheel]

Incidentally, Trailer Park Boys is the finest entertainment ever to come oat of Canada, eh.

Sorry, it's Letterkenny.

[m2711c]

[gravitylover]

We took a ride yesterday because we had a hankerin' for some LI seafood and our favorite spot has their market open. I had to see history as it's happening so we went through NYC to see the emptiness. The sidewalks on residential avenues and side streets are actually fairly busy but not much more than at 2am on a regular Sunday morning, there's a fair bit of traffic on the streets but it's mostly trucks delivering to the VERY FEW businesses open. For open stuff there are some restaurants, most markets, deli's and bodegas (but not all) and drug stores with a handful of bars that had tables set up in the doorway with bartenders mixing drinks and sending people on their merry way down the sidewalk. The East River trail was busy but not for a sunny day in May and the weirdest thing was going past all of these empty playgrounds with no children around.

It was disappointing to see how many people are not wearing masks, how many have their noses hanging out and how close people are willing to get to each other. It was nice to see so little traffic, one moment in particular struck me when we were the only car on Park Ave for 8 blocks at about noon! That's what these pics are.

On LI we visited my dad and spent some time on the deck talking. It's strange hanging with your dad wearing a mask... We stopped at 3 businesses, 2 to get the food we traveled for and one to get an extra cooler because we got more food than intended. In all 3 places mask wearing was taken very loosely, noses hanging out (employees and staff) and I still can't get over the people that think they have to pull it down to talk to others.

One other thing that really stuck out for me is how much less expensive gas is everywhere outside my little county. In what used to be some of the most expensive spots in the metro area it's up to $1/gallon less. That was annoying... All in all it's not nearly as somber a mood as we've been seeing and hearing, things are still happening, people are still getting out and doing stuff and people here are as dumb as we're seeing everywhere else. It was nice doing 180 miles and seeing different stuff, my world has revolved around a 15 mile radius for over 2 months...

[riser4]

Pio is piloting your Pilot

[My Pet Powder Goat]

The administration wants to make sure they're in a position to take credit for a vaccine if/when it's available. I guess that's sort of what being the President is all about, though: take credit for all the hard work done by others.

That's why it's called the "executive branch"

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[My Pet Powder Goat]

I do have one question, if you would give me the honor, what does the the Rat Flu Odyssey gang think about Sweden? They must have some natural immunity right? Maybe it’s the kitschy furniture?


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I like their meatballs.


Don't let the 5G get Ya!

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[Benny Profane]

I like this idea.

https://www.rt.com/news/488821-nethe...s-sex-partner/

[Core Shot]

Gonna inject a tiny bit of optimism in this here thread, which is constantly in danger of going off the rails.

Everybody take this with a hudge grain of salt as anecdotal hearsay, and doubly so as HIPPAA does not allow for anything more specific.

To update one of my earlier posts, with a larger dataset, our limited experience with patients with endstage "cytokine storm" response to SARS CoV 2 seems to indicate that they may respond to IL-6 inhibition with tocilizumab. This is within our own small non-placebo controlled sample, so perhaps no more statistically significant than Raoult et al. with hydroxychoroquine. Nonetheless, IMO this is still promising, and as our findings are part of a larger multi-institutional dataset that will eventually release results, hopefully positive. Major downside is that tocilizumab is in short supply and fantastically expensive, as are all engineered monoclonal antibodies.

More encouraging is our (also) limited experience with convalescent serum in critically ill SARS CoV 2 patients - this is similarly optimistic, at least thus far. Again, I hope and expect that there should be larger-scale multi-institutional data coming out soon to buttress our own observations. As convalescent immunoglobulin does not require manufacturing scale-up and is therefore potentially at less of the whim of the exigencies of private enterprise, perhaps it will be available more widely sooner, but I'm not sure about that. At least, I believe convalescent serum can be mobilized relatively rapidly with an enthusiastic donor population, and with known risks in re: administration. Something I wish we could investigate further @LegoSkier is whether we could see whether there are more specific/effective antibodies in a per-donor approach.

I should stress that even if our findings are real, that these are not by any means solutions to the SARS CoV 2 problem. Even if successful, they are merely additional tools in the fight. Public policy and scale-up capacity are far more important in implementing any tool in a battle against such an implacable foe, and TBH I'm far less optimistic about these aspects of the equation, especially with our current administration. Prevention is far more important, and as behaviour in our country (and even from participants this thread) sadly indicates, this will remain the main concern.



YMMV of course.

Whoa. Easy there with the sciency talk.

We just want to blather on about food and Swedish babes.

[Flounder]

One thing that this virus has done is expose just how stupid people can be.

I've been expressing the theory for the past few years that modern life has made it too easy for stupid people to survive. Most of these idiots would have been kicked in the head by a mule a hundred years ago because they're too stupid to know which end is the front. Modern medicine and safety protections have allowed idiots to not only survive but thrive. They seem to be having their moment now. Like any of these dufuses who take up arms because they can't get a haircut could have taken a wagon across an unknown country, cleared land, built a cabin, and been a self sufficient pioneer. Just a bunch of poser wannabes.

[glademaster]

I've been expressing the theory for the past few years that modern life has made it too easy for stupid people to survive. Most of these idiots would have been kicked in the head by a mule a hundred years ago because they're too stupid to know which end is the front. Modern medicine and safety protections have allowed idiots to not only survive but thrive. They seem to be having their moment now. Like any of these dufuses who take up arms because they can't get a haircut could have taken a wagon across an unknown country, committed genocide along the way, cleared land, built a cabin, and been a self sufficient pioneer. Just a bunch of poser wannabes.

FIFY

[jono]

I've been expressing the theory for the past few years that modern life has made it too easy for stupid people to survive. Most of these idiots would have been kicked in the head by a mule a hundred years ago because they're too stupid to know which end is the front. Modern medicine and safety protections have allowed idiots to not only survive but thrive. They seem to be having their moment now. Like any of these dufuses who take up arms because they can't get a haircut could have taken a wagon across an unknown country, cleared land, built a cabin, and been a self sufficient pioneer. Just a bunch of poser wannabes.

It looks like Darwin would predict but in reality it's sadder and faster-acting than genetics: education is just not valued and hasn't been for just a little too long. Maybe one or two generations is enough.

[Core Shot]

FIFY

If your going to FIFY a long paragraph, can you at least bold the F?

[glademaster]

If your going to FIFY a long paragraph, can you at least bold the F?

It really wasn't anything earth shattering. I just threw in "committed genocide along the way."

Just getting my morning post-count pad in.

[old goat]

Coronagate

[Ted Striker]

I've been expressing the theory for the past few years that modern life has made it too easy for stupid people to survive. Most of these idiots would have been kicked in the head by a mule a hundred years ago because they're too stupid to know which end is the front. Modern medicine and safety protections have allowed idiots to not only survive but thrive. They seem to be having their moment now. Like any of these dufuses who take up arms because they can't get a haircut could have taken a wagon across an unknown country, cleared land, built a cabin, and been a self sufficient pioneer. Just a bunch of poser wannabes.

You have seen idiocracy, right?

[Bunion 2020]

Mmmmmmmm http://beauty-around.com/en/tops/ite...asivyie-swedki

[Flounder]

You have seen idiocracy, right?

I have not. Worth the time is it?

And I left out the genocide involved because that's one thing I do think the modern idiots are capable of.

[Ottime]

We took a ride yesterday because we had a hankerin' for some LI seafood and our favorite spot has their market open. I had to see history as it's happening so we went through NYC to see the emptiness. The sidewalks on residential avenues and side streets are actually fairly busy but not much more than at 2am on a regular Sunday morning, there's a fair bit of traffic on the streets but it's mostly trucks delivering to the VERY FEW businesses open. For open stuff there are some restaurants, most markets, deli's and bodegas (but not all) and drug stores with a handful of bars that had tables set up in the doorway with bartenders mixing drinks and sending people on their merry way down the sidewalk. The East River trail was busy but not for a sunny day in May and the weirdest thing was going past all of these empty playgrounds with no children around.

It was disappointing to see how many people are not wearing masks, how many have their noses hanging out and how close people are willing to get to each other. It was nice to see so little traffic, one moment in particular struck me when we were the only car on Park Ave for 8 blocks at about noon! That's what these pics are.

On LI we visited my dad and spent some time on the deck talking. It's strange hanging with your dad wearing a mask... We stopped at 3 businesses, 2 to get the food we traveled for and one to get an extra cooler because we got more food than intended. In all 3 places mask wearing was taken very loosely, noses hanging out (employees and staff) and I still can't get over the people that think they have to pull it down to talk to others.

One other thing that really stuck out for me is how much less expensive gas is everywhere outside my little county. In what used to be some of the most expensive spots in the metro area it's up to $1/gallon less. That was annoying... All in all it's not nearly as somber a mood as we've been seeing and hearing, things are still happening, people are still getting out and doing stuff and people here are as dumb as we're seeing everywhere else. It was nice doing 180 miles and seeing different stuff, my world has revolved around a 15 mile radius for over 2 months...

The craziest thing is how Park Ave seems to be taking a break and laying on its side. Never seen anything like that in my six years living in Manhattan. Incredible.

How was the fish?

Vibes man. It must feel amazing to get out of the city right now and put in some miles.

You have a parking spot in the city? Must be a dentist.

[Ted Striker]

Seriously? Your post was basically the premise of the movie (along with the other side of that coin: smart people are too busy with academic and professional achievements to breed in similar numbers as the leisure class)

It's low-brow humor with a too-true twist. And remarkably prophetic considering it was made fourteen years ago.

[glademaster]

And I left out the genocide involved because that's one thing I do think the modern idiots are capable of.

Touche.

[Deebased]

I dunno, the best skiing on the continent is in British Columbia.

That is if you've never been to Alaska.