Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[jackstraw]

I'll take guides over shimanos any day of the week. Shimanos don't hold a bleed, have shit for modulation, and the bite point is different every time I pull the lever.

You're the first to ever say that. Did you ride Marker binders in the 80's and 90's also? [emoji3]

It's crazy because I like a lot of sram components. I've run their derailleurs for years now, but I hate reverb and the guides.

[toast2266]

You're the first to ever say that. Did you ride Marker binders in the 80's and 90's also? [emoji3]

It's crazy because I like a lot of sram components. I've run their derailleurs for years now, but I hate reverb and the guides.

No argument on the reverb. And their drivetrains are fine, but leave plenty of room for improvement.

But guides have better modulation than xt's, better adjustability than xt's, and sram has the best bleed system in the industry. Which isn't to say they don't still have their problems, but they're still waaay better than any shimano brake I've ever ridden. And codes are better than guides, so there's that.

The only thing shimanos are better at is locking up your wheels when you shouldn't / don't want to.

[rideit]

I'll take guides over shimanos any day of the week. Shimanos don't hold a bleed, have shit for modulation, and the bite point is different every time I pull the lever.

No longer true with the 19/20 models.
Admittedly it’s a small sample, but I am basing that opinion on a few hundred thousand feet of descending this year.

[toast2266]

No longer true with the 19/20 models.
Admittedly it’s a small sample, but I am basing that opinion on a few hundred thousand feet of descending this year.

While I haven't ridden them yet, it sounds like they have better modulation, but still have a wandering bite point. I'll reserve judgment though.

[jono]

FFS. Get some Maguras and end the bullshit already. Smells like Panaracer vs. Hutchinson in here.

[jackstraw]

The only thing shimanos are better at is locking up your wheels when you shouldn't / don't want to.

Yes. The shimano's are all on or off. The guides are squishy and then on. The TRP's, according to my friend who's riding them now and his son races them, is a happy medium between the two.

Don't know shit about Magura's...but they're German. Must be good eh?

[toast2266]

Don't know shit about Magura's...but they're German. Must be good eh?

They're on/off, but also squishy.

[One (+) Sentence]

FFS. Get some Maguras and end the bullshit already. Smells like Panaracer vs. Hutchinson in here.

Maguras ain’t perfect either. The torx 10 course thread wood screw at the bleed port is easy to strip when threading into their plastic lever (although Magura claims this plastic is some type of hybrid carbon.) And their 4 piston calipers take 4 individual tiny pads. My opinion is the best current alternative to Sram or Shimano is Hayes Dominion A4’s. Those are truly impressive for a number of reasons.

I think Hutchinson is still making pretty good tires, you just don’t see them too much. Plus, they were one of the early pioneers of true tubeless so, respect...

[gravitylover]

Maguras are squishy and use silly little brake pads (on the 4 piston models) but they're reliable and fairly powerful. Guides can be a little bit squishy but not so much so that I would change them out. I hate the on/off thing with most Shimano brakes but their reliability is pretty damned good and when you're miles out from the trailhead that's important so I'll put up with it. I run Shimano brakes on my simple hardtail but 4 piston SRAM brakes on my fatty and e-mtb because they need more power and better modulation.

[Dantheman]

My opinion is the best current alternative to Sram or Shimano is Hayes Dominion A4’s. Those are truly impressive for a number of reasons.

Love mine.

ETA: Coincidentally, Hayes' instructional video for bleeding Dominions recommends removing the brake from the bike. Good luck with that on an internally-routed frame

[Andeh]

I'm also on Maguras (MT7s, also have MT5s and have run MT Trail Sports). I previously ran XT M785s (experienced wandering bite point and on/off), and briefly Code RSCs (experienced fade, don't like the really long lever). As long as I have a good bleed on the Maguras, I find them to be extremely consistent. I find their lever feel to be somewhere in between Codes and XTs... bite sooner and more definitively than Codes, but later and less aggressively than XTs. I did manage to strip the bleed port screw once on my first bleed, before I learned to RTFM and pay attention to their torque ratings. Basically all it takes to torque that screw is roll your torx allen between your thumb and forefinger as far as you can before your fingers slip. I did break the MC housing once in a crash, but Magura USA sent me a complete new brake assembly in 2 days. Their bleed process is a bit more finicky, but if I'm able to do it (can't reliably adjust drivetrain), most home mechanics should be able to.

What's the concern with the 4 individual pads? With 4 cylinders of any form, you have to take care to align the caliper front & back, and make sure that the pistons stay clean so they engage evenly.

A bunch of the local guys are XTR fans, on the latest version. I've overheard them quietly still complaining about wandering bite and fade. At the end of the same steep few minute trail, you could tell who's using XTRs blindfolded, by the stink of their pads.

[simple]

Hello is this the bi-monthly discussion on mountain bike brake performance?

I have two more bikes to add to my reference points. Oh wait they are road disc brakes so I guess I'll wait until the discussion goes there....

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Oh wait they are road disc brakes

[jono]

Maguras can use 4 pads or 2 on the 4-piston calipers. If you don't find an advantage to 4 then that's your call, get the ones with a connected backing plate. If you find them squishy they need a bleed. Which is rare unless you let the pads get too thin/start adding fluid instead of replacing pads--don't do that. Or overtorque stuff. Apart from that they seem to go multiple seasons with nothing but pad changes. And they use mineral oil.

In average running condition the levers feel a lot like Guides for very light braking. But the power ramps up quicker on the Maguras. Always takes me a little while to get used to Guides again; first couple of hard stops can be kinda scary.

[mtnjam]

Back onto the topic of rants. Anterior shin laceration from an "incident" last month, just about healed up. Riding my flats last night, slide out on some loose rocks in a creek bottom and rake my anterior shin on my flat pedals where my laceration was healing up. Damnit.

Back to the bi-monthly brake talk. Hayes brakes suck, my experience has been nothing but horrible with those. OTOH, my experience with Hope's has been great, although finicky to setup they provide great modulation and power, but I haven't used those for a while.

[One (+) Sentence]

Maguras can use 4 pads or 2 on the 4-piston calipers. If you don't find an advantage to 4 then that's your call, get the ones with a connected backing plate. If you find them squishy they need a bleed. Which is rare unless you let the pads get too thin/start adding fluid instead of replacing pads--don't do that. Or overtorque stuff. Apart from that they seem to go multiple seasons with nothing but pad changes. And they use mineral oil.

In average running condition the levers feel a lot like Guides for very light braking. But the power ramps up quicker on the Maguras. Always takes me a little while to get used to Guides again; first couple of hard stops can be kinda scary.

I’ve had good luck not stripping those bleed ports, but the torque spec on those is 0.5 NM. Seriously. That can be pretty hard to assess, especially for the home mechanic.

Didn’t know about the one piece backing plate pads. Thanks for the heads up.

[grskier]

Not enough to justify the PITA factor, IMVHO.



I can't recall seeing many, if any, bikes that routed cables/hoses on the underside of the downtube. You've seen a lot more frames than I have, though.

Do you guys charge extra for a brake install on a frame with internal routing? It's a conspiracy!

Transition Coverts had cable routing under the bb

[grskier]

I've had much better luck with XTs than any of the Code iterations I've run.

[Dantheman]

Back to the bi-monthly brake talk. Hayes brakes suck, my experience has been nothing but horrible with those.

When was the last time you used them? The new ones definitely don't suck.

[skaredshtles]

When was the last time you used them? The new ones definitely don't suck.

My guess - Hayes 9's from the early '00s.

And to be honest - they weren't particularly terrible from what I remember... although they *were* the 1st disc brakes I'd ever experienced... so they were being compared to XT v-brakes.

[toast2266]

I still have some hayes 9's on my dirt jumper. So, to their credit, they still work ok after 15(?) years.

But yeah, they suck. Zero power, bad lever shape, etc. No way I'd run those things on a bike where stopping actually matters.

No opinions on the new hayes stuff. Haven't tried it yet.

[mtnjam]

When was the last time you used them? The new ones definitely don't suck.

About 15 years ago. So yes, they certainly may have gotten better, but like the BOA closure systems for shoes. One bad experience is enough for me. I'll stick with XT's and shoelaces.

[Dantheman]

But yeah, they suck. Zero power, bad lever shape, etc. No way I'd run those things on a bike where stopping actually matters.

No one in their right mind would run anything from that era now

#juicy7s4life

I'll stick with XT's and shoelaces.

I switched from '18 XTs to the A4s, no comparison.

[jackstraw]

I’ve had good luck not stripping those bleed ports, but the torque spec on those is 0.5 NM. Seriously. That can be pretty hard to assess, especially for the home mechanic.

Didn’t know about the one piece backing plate pads. Thanks for the heads up.

My shop gave me this. It comes with every bike they build. 5Nm

[plugboots]

Now show us your 0.5 nm one.