Ikon Pass

**Name Redacted** · 08-02-2019, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by bigdude2468

Maybe too cold but steep plays little part in it. If you look back at posts from last winter you will find all kinds of stories from Alta about IKON pass holders getting in way over their head. My favorite was a guy at the top of Alta’s Collins lift asking me “is this is the easy way down?”. Unfortunately he was 100 yards from the top so there was only one way down. Or how about people reading trail maps while on the high T, or stopping and asking directions on the High T, we saw it all.

Yeah, but Abasin is right up the street from Gaperville USA, AKA Keystone. Been dealing with that shit for many years.

Last season wasn't even that crowded on the hill. New lift and terrain really spread people out.

The worst days will be when Abasin reports 1" more snow than Copper or WP. Which rarely happens. Also, spring has the potential of sucking when the other two resorts are closed.

They had to do something to ensure the masses would continue to support their F&B that they've been investing heavily in the last few years.

**LesterSmoove** · 08-02-2019, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by blackalps

the world is overpopulated. It's not getting better. The US loves capitalism, and the goal of capitalism is to make money. Capitalism + increased population = no more quiet, people free experiences anywhere. It's not going to stop in our lifetime. You can get mad at IKON or whine about weekend warriors ruining your favorite spots, or you can get over it and go skiing. The same thing is happening everywhere.

IKON may not be a good sustainable business model for every independent resort though. not sure about A-Basin, but I think Jackson Hole would actually be better off financially as an independent premium resort in the long run. if every place is getting overcrowded, there will be a market for relatively uncrowded options at a higher price. doubt that applies to solitude...nice as it is, it doesn't have the draw and cache of JH and solitude is probably making bank compared to pre-ikon.

it's just silly for every major resort to go with the high volume low price model across the board. let's hope that when the original alterra contracts are up, capitalism gives us at least 1 traditional resort that isn't an over-capacity shitshow.

capitalists are risk-averse sheep sometimes. A-basin had a strong bargaining position with Alterra this year, so they could boost their redemptions over what vail would pay, but they would be fucked if they tried to go it alone for 19/20 and had a bad snow year or unexpectedly low financial performance. alterra would know, and alterra would twist the knife in negotiations if a-basin came crawling back.

**Name Redacted** · 08-02-2019, 12:37 PM

Funny to read all the conspiracy theories out there. This deal was made last season before they announced they were going off Epic.

Oh, yeah, and blackout days FTW!

Most Frangers will blow their 7 days shredding the ribbon of death and be playing golf in Denver when the snow is really good in the spring.

Lastly, they have been posting this as damage control for all the Butthurt Social Media crusaders "There will be benefits added to the A-Basin season passes soon. If you have any questions, feel free to contact guest services at 970-468-0718."

**ColMan** · 08-02-2019, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Oh, yeah, and blackout days FTW!
.

I was also thinking that the blackout periods would possibly be the least crowded days. Far from a scientific poll, but all my friends in CO who went Ikon bought the base pass. Will be the first time in a while that I actually plan to ski between Xmas and NYE.

Oh, and Keystone just announced a Keystone/CB 4-pack today for $249. Nice try VR.

**Ottime** · 08-02-2019, 01:38 PM

Not IKON, but EPIC. Kirkwood is empty during blackouts. Even if there is a solid base, and deep soft snow. Hell, even a solid powder day can be empty during blackouts.

**japanada** · 08-02-2019, 01:51 PM

1!

Originally Posted by ColMan

I was also thinking that the blackout periods would possibly be the least crowded days. Far from a scientific poll, but all my friends in CO who went Ikon bought the base pass. Will be the first time in a while that I actually plan to ski between Xmas and NYE.

Oh, and Keystone just announced a Keystone/CB 4-pack today for $249. Nice try VR.

Sent from my SM-G973U using TGR Forums mobile app

**japanada** · 08-02-2019, 01:52 PM

!

Originally Posted by japanada

1!

Sent from my SM-G973U using TGR Forums mobile app

Sent from my SM-G973U using TGR Forums mobile app

**MMMSKI** · 08-02-2019, 01:56 PM

I just wish that ski areas could remain independent . . . but it is 2019 and every one needs to be in a alliance with someone apparently. I was trying to think of independent "destination" ski areas in the West that remain unattached to a multi season pass and could only come up with a few.

Sadly am a iKon pass holder for that sole reason...BUT ski at a state owned/run ski area in NH

**Telemarketeer** · 08-02-2019, 02:18 PM

Holy Social media meltdown! 1200 comments, almost every one bitching. Sad day and age we live in.

**simple** · 08-02-2019, 02:20 PM

Yeah so sad. We hate children at Disney world as well.

**The SnowShow** · 08-02-2019, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by ULLRismyco-pilot

Holy Social media meltdown! 1200 comments, almost every one bitching. Sad day and age we live in.

Yeah, EVERYONE is pissed about the “bait and switch”.

**Telemarketeer** · 08-02-2019, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by The SnowShow

Yeah, EVERYONE is pissed about the “bait and switch”.

99% of those posts are from a Russian troll farm organized by Robert Katz and Vladimir Putin.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 08-02-2019, 05:17 PM

I will be bringing my lanyard over to Summit to ski with Lemon Boy if nothing else. Strange times. The Jane stayed open super late this year. If the late spring skiers go to The Basin, that will actually cost Alterra money.

**FiveLarge** · 08-02-2019, 11:16 PM

Shredgnar gets it.

Don't know how many a basin only passes will sell, but there are substantially fewer ikon passes sold vs epic, and abasin was unlimited with minimal restrictions on 4 VR pass products, (including the cheapest multi resort pass) now its only 5 or 7 days, the 5 being restricted.

**Name Redacted** · 08-03-2019, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by FiveLarge

Shredgnar gets it.

Don't know how many a basin only passes will sell, but there are substantially fewer ikon passes sold vs epic, and abasin was unlimited with minimal restrictions on 4 VR pass products, (including the cheapest multi resort pass) now its only 5 or 7 days, the 5 being restricted.

Not to mention VR employees, including Keystone and Breck employees, many who live a short drive away. Copper, WP, Aspen are all too far away for most employees to visit consistently.

Just found out I'm getting a free Epic pass too. Can't wait to hear what they add to the A-Basin only pass.

**cmsummit** · 08-03-2019, 08:54 AM

One thing for certain......Ikon just pulled more CO Front Range skiers away from the Epic Pass with this move. I'm still sticking with the ABasin and Epic Local passes. 80% of Front Range Ikoners will get the Base pass and ABasin should be empty on those holiday blackout dates. Glad I added my daughter onto the ABasin pass for $99. Overall, I do think ABasin sees fewer skier visits this season, but I think we'll still see those certain weekends where it will look just like the Epic crowds.......mountain is 100% open, Gratz calls for the most snow at high elevation areas along the Divide, yada, yada, yada.....

**brutah** · 08-03-2019, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by LesterSmoove

IKON may not be a good sustainable business model for every independent resort though. not sure about A-Basin, but I think Jackson Hole would actually be better off financially as an independent premium resort in the long run. if every place is getting overcrowded, there will be a market for relatively uncrowded options at a higher price. doubt that applies to solitude...nice as it is, it doesn't have the draw and cache of JH and solitude is probably making bank compared to pre-ikon.

it's just silly for every major resort to go with the high volume low price model across the board. let's hope that when the original alterra contracts are up, capitalism gives us at least 1 traditional resort that isn't an over-capacity shitshow.

capitalists are risk-averse sheep sometimes. A-basin had a strong bargaining position with Alterra this year, so they could boost their redemptions over what vail would pay, but they would be fucked if they tried to go it alone for 19/20 and had a bad snow year or unexpectedly low financial performance. alterra would know, and alterra would twist the knife in negotiations if a-basin came crawling back.

I love that people think a ski resort sees overcrowding and long lift lines as a problem. That looks like success to me!

You want uncrowded resorts? It's called the Yellowstone club (which I hear has lift lines occasionally). There's a private ski resort in the beginning stages of development in the works in Utah.

The ikon pass is guaranteed money. Bad snow year, you still get paid. Good snow year, getting paid. It's foolish to think most ski resorts view this as problematic as the skiers. Plus I was told Alta received a phat check upfront when they signed their 3 year contract. Guaranteed money is key when one bad snow year can destroy an independent ski area.

**doebedoe** · 08-03-2019, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by brutah

Guaranteed money is key when one bad snow year can destroy an independent ski area.

I don't disagree with your main thesis. But it is going to take a series of really all-time horrible years to potentially threaten Abasin. And if Abasin is fucked for bad snow, well the entirety of Colorado probably is.

The idea that Abasin couldn't operate sustainably as an independent ski area is just a misnomer. There is a very similar area a few miles away, similar number of lifts, similar amount of terrain to control, way less notoriety and fame. And its a sustainable operation.

The Ikon pass is how Abasin feels like it can maximize long-term profits. Ain't nothing wrong with that, lets just call a spade a spade. Al preaches a big game, and I for one think he believes it. But he doesn't own the resort -- it's owned by a real estate investment group.

**EWG** · 08-04-2019, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by doebedoe

I don't disagree with your main thesis. But it is going to take a series of really all-time horrible years to potentially threaten Abasin. And if Abasin is fucked for bad snow, well the entirety of Colorado probably is.

What is ABasin? Do you mean A-Bay?

**Bunion 2020** · 08-04-2019, 03:53 PM

The Ikon pass is how participating areas feel like it can maximize long-term profits. Ain't nothing wrong with that, lets just call a spade a spade.

FIFY.

People tend to forget, skiing at resorts is a business model, plain and simple. If a business loses money long enough it is no longer IN business.

I worked for a cool operation that thought, "Skiing is an amenity and hey if we have a bad year we sell a few more lots and make it up". They went bankrupt and were bought and consolidated, but for 10 years it was really a fun place to work and ski, now not so much.

**Best Mexican Skier from Da South** · 08-04-2019, 06:39 PM

Ottime, yeah... Kirkwood is shhweet. Some of my best days were had at the Wood last year. Hope you're doing well, man.

Best MEX

**Best Mexican Skier from Da South** · 08-04-2019, 06:44 PM

For the record, this is a great time to be without kids and single while living in an RV. The Epic and Ikon passes have really changed my life for the better. I don't know what the fuck I would have in the memory banks without these big alliance passes... and there are still more adventures on the horizon. Yeehaw!