The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[1000-oaks]

Issue with adjustible AFD toes is the stack height & ramp changes depending on boot type. With Shift / Lord / Duke / etc, the toe stack is maxed (and ramp minimized) with an alpine boot. With a binding like the Warden, toe stack is fixed and the wings are adjusted upward, so ramp never changes even if the boot does.

[Spyderjon]

Huh - how does bsl affect the difference in both absolute (and not only angle) terms? (honest question, i do not understand how it would ) I mean, 3mm is 3mm no matter what BSL you run, where BSL seemingly only would alter the angle of the ramp, not the ramp as measured in difference in height.

Is it down to sole characteristics on specific boot models or what? I just cannot for the life of me understand why putting the bindings closer together on the same mount pattern would increase the difference in height

You're correct that there's no difference in the relative heights of the toe and heel - this is why delta is measured in mm as opposed to the number degrees of tilt of the boot.

However it's the degrees of tilt that is noticable to the skier and the shorter the boot sole length the greater the angle/tilt of the boot will be, even though the height differences are the same.

That 17/24 stack height is misleading as it's not the true delta as the measurements are only made to the top sheet and the skis are likely to be different thicknesses where measured. The actual delta of the Shift with a Vulcan/Mercury installed with the correct forward pressure and toe height adjustment is 8mm.

[LeeLau]

Also recall the 17/24 stack height I measured is centre of tech toe piece/centre of tech fitting. Confusingly there is no standard for where that's placed on a boot. I did clarify the methodology when measuring for that reason

[el hefe]

after the g3 thread I am really disappointed in the lack of drama here. I am getting mine mounted today....

[reckless toboggan]

after the g3 thread I am really disappointed in the lack of drama here. I am getting mine mounted today....

I totally agree. Very un-TGR dammit!

Where is Cody on this!?!?

LOCK HIM UP!

[emoji6]

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

Huh - how does bsl affect the difference in both absolute (and not only angle) terms? (honest question, i do not understand how it would ) I mean, 3mm is 3mm no matter what BSL you run, where BSL seemingly only would alter the angle of the ramp, not the ramp as measured in difference in height.

Is it down to sole characteristics on specific boot models or what? I just cannot for the life of me understand why putting the bindings closer together on the same mount pattern would increase the difference in height

Attachment 258877

ref https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...ouring-Binding

The shorter the boot, the more dramatic the ramp angle. Think about it.

[kid-kapow]

The shorter the boot, the more dramatic the ramp angle. Think about it.

To quote somebody on TV: Serenity Now!

If you read what I wrote and did not come away with that I 100% understand that a shorter bsl = increased angle if the height differences remain the same, then either my writing skills suck or somebody needs to read stuff with less of a bias...

My question was not regarding the angle, but the absolute height difference front and back (based on LeeLau's findings quoted above) and what I read as that height difference increasing as BSL got shorter. That made no sense to me, hence the question.

It also made just about 0% sense that an alpine binding is taller in the front than in the rear, but then again, I might have misunderstood something. When I do not understand something, I try to ask instead of just assuming things.

My question was replied to in #1129, and the assumption that all boot soles are not made identically, which together explain the phenomenon. Jubilations.

Thanks for the replies though.

[cmcrawfo]

To quote somebody on TV: Serenity Now!

If you read what I wrote and did not come away with that I 100% understand that a shorter bsl = increased angle if the height differences remain the same, then either my writing skills suck or somebody needs to read stuff with less of a bias...

My question was not regarding the angle, but the absolute height difference front and back (based on LeeLau's findings quoted above) and what I read as that height difference increasing as BSL got shorter. That made no sense to me, hence the question.

It also made just about 0% sense that an alpine binding is taller in the front than in the rear, but then again, I might have misunderstood something. When I do not understand something, I try to ask instead of just assuming things.

My question was replied to in #1129, and the assumption that all boot soles are not made identically, which together explain the phenomenon. Jubilations.

Thanks for the replies though.

Does the calculation change if the heel is still attached or not?

[Alkasquawlik]

I totally agree. Very un-TGR dammit!

Where is Cody on this!?!?

LOCK HIM UP!

[emoji6]

Yeah, sorry, been busy packing up my belongings, stuffing the truck and getting a head start on the pitchforks and tiki torches.

[2FUNKY]

Attachment 258768Yea legit.. Mounted professionally tested etc. Industry pro.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Post up more photos and how it happened. The one iffy photo and lack of discussion is interesting.

[XXX-er]

Don't over react, broken heelpieces only qualify for tar n feathers

[PNWbrit]

tiki torches.

That's not an angry mob it's a Jimmy Buffett audience.

[ACH]

Don't over react, broken heelpieces only qualify for tar n feathers

Meh, that is a reach, swirly, super wedgie at best...

[reckless toboggan]

Post up more photos and how it happened. The one iffy photo and lack of discussion is interesting.

Agreed.

[Alkasquawlik]

That's not an angry mob it's a Jimmy Buffett audience.

Ahh, that makes sense now. They were angry because Jimmy didn't show up in Charlotte.

[LightRanger]

Ahh, that makes sense now. They were angry because Jimmy didn't show up in Charlotte.

That, and mom didn't bring the meatloaf fast enough.

[Self Jupiter]

That's not an angry mob it's a Jimmy Buffett audience.

Not ready to say some of those folks are fine people

[brown9]

That, and mom didn't bring the meatloaf fast enough.

What is she doing all day!?

[reckless toboggan]

What is she doing all day!?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrGF1pjAQba/

[XavierD]

Issue with adjustible AFD toes is the stack height & ramp changes depending on boot type. With Shift / Lord / Duke / etc, the toe stack is maxed (and ramp minimized) with an alpine boot. With a binding like the Warden, toe stack is fixed and the wings are adjusted upward, so ramp never changes even if the boot does.

Issue with fixed afd bindings like the Warden/STH is while the binding delta is always the same, you see more variable in internal delta due to different sole styles changing the distance between the rubber and your foot. I think you will find there is more consistency between the flat top of the lugs and your foot than where the AFD contacts.

[burrito]

First day on snow with the Shifts inbounds at Mammoth yesterday. Looking forward to getting them out on a tour soon. A couple of notes:

They felt really good in the crud -just like an alpine binding. That was where I really noticed the toes of my Kingpins getting knocked around the past couple of seasons. Had one release exactly when I would have expected to. No issues there.

I was in new skis, boots, and bindings yesterday. So I can’t say with 100% certainty it was the bindings’ ramp angle, but I definitely felt more backseat than normal.

I think the AFDs, and trying to correctly set their .5mm gap, are going to be an issue for people. After an hour or two I noticed one of mine had become noticeably loose. I adjusted it up a bit, but within another hour it was loose again. My guess is that I’m on the wrong end of one of the “indexed” parts of its adjustment range, so I’m going to raise it overly high without the boot in, lower it until it’s kissing the sole, and then lower it another quarter turn or so. Hopefully this fixes it. If not, I may try to get in contact with Salomon for a replacement AFD.

[Spyderjon]

LeeLau, are you still sking the Salomon MTN binding? I'm looking in to the possibility of a Shift/MTN dual insert mount but I don't have a MTN jig or set of MTN's to play with. The MTN toe holes have 40mm centres as do the middle toe holes in the Shift so I'm thinking that I might get really lucky and be able to share the middle Shift toe holes with the rear toe holes on the MTN using the same bsl for both and still have the boot centres pretty close? Should be plenty of clearance on all the other holes and it'd be great to have the option to swap out the heavier Shifts for a lightweight distance binding on the same ski.

[gregL]

LeeLau, are you still sking the Salomon MTN binding? I'm looking in to the possibility of a Shift/MTN dual insert mount but I don't have a MTN jig or set of MTN's to play with. The MTN toe holes have 40mm centres as do the middle toe holes in the Shift so I'm thinking that I might get really lucky and be able to share the middle Shift toe holes with the rear toe holes on the MTN using the same bsl for both and still have the boot centres pretty close? Should be plenty of clearance on all the other holes and it'd be great to have the option to swap out the heavier Shifts for a lightweight distance binding on the same ski.

I have an MTN jig, Jon, and looking at a Shift template on it adjusted for the same BSL (300mm) it looks like the boot center is about 10mm off.

[LeeLau]

Jom I do have the MTN and the Shift still but looks like greg has you covered?

[Spyderjon]

Thanks fellas, that's great info.