The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[Alkasquawlik]

is that the same Forged Composite method that Lambo developed for their cars?

looks like a great binding. thanks for making it happen. It could replace 2 of my 3 bindings for sure, if it holds up. Ideal for my wife's skis too. looks like it could be a perfect W/B slackcountry setup, and good for sled-skiing. just gotta see how it holds.

yeah - seeing a mount pattern would be awesome too. or at least knowing if it conflicts with an existing kingpin pattern?

So is this basically replacing/improving the Guardians? is solly going to stop selling those?

I think it is. The developer was saying they sourced the material from a company that makes high end car parts and airplane components. He said they also helped specially make the composite that is in the binding.

Yeah definitely replaces any frame binding. Kills them in weight and tourability but also could be a replacement for a lot of people's alpine set up since it's as light as a Junior binding.

[mf63cf]

Has anyone ski'd both Kingpins and S/Lab Shift? I just bought the Kingpins, kinda bummed that the release was not announced before!! Would like to know if anyone has ski'd both and which ones they recommend and why? I am not too worried about the extra 100gms of weight, if it allows burlier skiing and is also safer that it won't release on jumps and resort skiing.

[nyskirat]

Has anyone ski'd both Kingpins and S/Lab Shift? I just bought the Kingpins, kinda bummed that the release was not announced before!! Would like to know if anyone has ski'd both and which ones they recommend and why? I am not too worried about the extra 100gms of weight, if it allows burlier skiing and is also safer that it won't release on jumps and resort skiing.

They're not on the market until fall 2018 and I imagine very few members here have skied both.

If you need touring bindings this year, use the Kingpin. If you can wait, do what your heart desires.

[summit]

Frame binding will persist for those who dont have tech boots (or don't want to ski them) but that market must be shrinking

[jacob_dbu]

Frame binding will persist for those who dont have tech boots (or don't want to ski them) but that market must be shrinking

Yeah and that market is 0 on TGR pretty much. I can imagine that this binding may entice boot makers to start putting tech fittings on any boot with a walk mode.

Also, let's not forget that frame bindings are much cheaper than this binding, especially on the used market.

[MCskid]

Can you ditch the brakes and save weight? If so how much weight would this save? Any plans to make a lighter weight tour only version? Will this be your one and only full time binding?

[Ottime]

Intrigued. If you want, next time you are in Santa Cruz, I can buy your used protos for cheap. This seems ideal.

I was a Duke and Vertical user for years, but grabbed my Dukes more often than not. Weight and frame sucked, but it gave me confidence on the down that allowed me to ski and guck what I like.

These days I tend to tour with pins, as all the up is soooo much better. Seems like you've created a nice mix. Can't wait to see a pair in real life.

[grinch]

With the use of carbon composites it makes me wonder if these use steel alloy springs like “Eibach” produces. I’ve saved somewhere between a 1/4-1/2lb on my rear bike spring . If this binding doesn’t use these steel alloy springs it’s conceivable the binding could shave enough weight to put it very close to a kingpin. That’d make the decision easy. A lighter 10-11 din binding and lighter corresponding build in line with a 10-11 din might yield a Tecton weight. Eibach talk a lot about there consistency and linear travel but in this app I see the weight savings and longevity/durability being a good fit.

http://eibach.com/us/p-13-about-us.html

[kid-kapow]

A very interesting design and an impressive engineering feat. I really like what Fritschi, Salomon and Atomic are bringing to market these days. These are fine days to be in the resort and touring based free riding segment - the gear that is available is simply increasingly fantastic (if costly). Well done.

(market segment ponderings - ignore if this does not interest you)

While the weight is impressive for the function that they pack, they still weigh approx 170gr a foot more than the Tectons. That kind of begs the question how big the perceivable ride quality difference is (especially in soft snow conditions) vs what you gain in extra energy from saving 170gr a foot on the ascent. Also whether people want a burlier ski with a tecton binding or a lighter weight ski and a shift binding if the scenario is to keep the system weight similar vs what gives the best overall performance in that scenario (damper/"more" ski or increased elasticity in the binding).

Also, seeing how many people are perfectly happy with the pretty inelastic and less safe bindings that currently are saturating the market from all other brands than Fritschi and SkiTrab (and from next season Atomic/Salomon) it will be very interesting to see how the market will develop after the introduction of these bindings. I know that I at least sometime forget what the real comparison is for the lighter weight bindings that are used for touring - and that is mountaineering bindings that are fully locked all the time. Compared to these most modern tech bindings represent a meaningful improvement safety wise, even if they fall woefully short of an alpine binding. These short comings are not necessarily an issue though as the need for alpine binding performance and safety features simply isn't there given the significant weight penalty for the weight-focused and out-on-a-leisurely-stroll end of the market.

What the Shift bindings probably will do though, is open up market from/between the Tectons and regular alpine bindings and increase the number of people who get into the Tecton/Shift segment for ultimate flexibility quiver wise - and these should kill the frame market once and for all. That is at least were i find this product to be brilliantly placed and i def see it helping this segment grow in a meaningful way. It is probably a perfect product for North America and the general crowd reading TGR/Freeskier/Powder mag. Again, well done Atomic/Salomon! I would def be a bit concerned if i was in charge over at Marker right now - for the Kingpin/frame bindings could end up being a bit dead in the water going forward.

[LHutz Esq]

I think folks can get a little weird about weight.

You know what weighs a lot?- my dick. Yet I still bring it everywhere I go because it makes my life better.

So maybe not the bindings for multi-day epics- but for the most of us, most of the time- if it makes skiing safer and more fun then Weight prob isn’t that much of an issue.

Looks cool - I’d love for my friends to get it.

[jacob_dbu]

(market segment ponderings - ignore if this does not interest you)

Regarding this I see really 3 tech binding options that could all fit in a quiver for different uses:

1. Ultralight bindings (MTN, SSL, Speed Turns)
2. Mid-weight bindings (Evo or Tecton, I can't see the Ion/Kingpin/Radical standing up to these)
3. Shift

The weight difference is enough to warrant different ones for different uses in my opinion. The innovation has been awesome in the past few years.

[carlh]

Definitely very interesting, I am curious how the durability and safety look long term compared to the tecton. My touring skis ride lifts infrequently and only in soft snow but I want to trust them in the backcountry. As a big guy who likes to ski pretty hard one of these two will be my next bc options, I am mainly looking for safety and reliability, the improved skiing characteristics are likely in the noise for soft snow focused BC. I hope salomon will have enough pairs of these under athletes this year for us to see how they hold up in real world use.

[grinch]

Either my quiver just went to crazy level $’s or msybe it can be thinned with the wider usage of all the new bindings
Sub 95 with ssl’s
100-106 with vipec (mostly bc)
108-110 with CAST(mostly on hill)
115-120 with SHIFT MNC
128 protests with tectron
Tlt6’s
XTD 120
Lupo carbon ti
And 6 boot liners of course

[summit]

Frame bindings now go the way of the alpine trekker... A used market saturated with Cheap used frames that people buy for their first season

Regarding this I see really 3 tech binding options that could all fit in a quiver for different uses:

1. Ultralight bindings (MTN, SSL, Speed Turns)
2. Mid-weight bindings (Evo or Tecton, I can't see the Ion/Kingpin/Radical standing up to these)
3. Shift

The weight difference is enough to warrant different ones for different uses in my opinion. The innovation has been awesome in the past few years.

X1000

[Alkasquawlik]

Regarding this I see really 3 tech binding options that could all fit in a quiver for different uses:

1. Ultralight bindings (MTN, SSL, Speed Turns)
2. Mid-weight bindings (Evo or Tecton, I can't see the Ion/Kingpin/Radical standing up to these)
3. Shift

The weight difference is enough to warrant different ones for different uses in my opinion. The innovation has been awesome in the past few years.

I see where you're coming from but I would disagree. What's the point of a midweight tech binding? It offers no more safety aspects than an ultralight tech, just a perception of safety. Tecton's/Kingpins are ultimately tech bindings and TUV classifies them as such. The Shift offers the safety of an alpine TUV certified binding, the elasticity of an alpine binding and the downhill performance of an alpine binding but with tech fitting uphill capabilities...all for about 235 grams more per foot. For me, the SHIFT will be my 70% binding with ultralight tech bindings being reserved for fall-you-die steep skiing or massive planned touring days.

[Alkasquawlik]

Definitely very interesting, I am curious how the durability and safety look long term compared to the tecton. My touring skis ride lifts infrequently and only in soft snow but I want to trust them in the backcountry. As a big guy who likes to ski pretty hard one of these two will be my next bc options, I am mainly looking for safety and reliability, the improved skiing characteristics are likely in the noise for soft snow focused BC. I hope salomon will have enough pairs of these under athletes this year for us to see how they hold up in real world use.

Well we've done what we've could to test durability but in many ways, that will be proven over the next few years. I'm a big guy too, 6'2", 190 lbs and they've been working quite well for me. Oh and we actually had tons of athletes on them last year in addition to select guides and ski patrollers. This year you'll be seeing all of us on them a shit ton.

[Alkasquawlik]

I think folks can get a little weird about weight.

You know what weighs a lot?- my dick. Yet I still bring it everywhere I go because it makes my life better.

So maybe not the bindings for multi-day epics- but for the most of us, most of the time- if it makes skiing safer and more fun then Weight prob isn’t that much of an issue.

Looks cool - I’d love for my friends to get it.

I just wanted to quote this to make sure this golden line never goes lost.

[TAFKALVS]

That was one of the main goals. It had to have the same performance as our STH's or Wardens in any condition. I'll let you decide ultimately but for us, that hurdle was achieved.

I've sent some 20-30 footers at Squaw last season on them.

Oh yeah and OH YEAH!

For me, the SHIFT will be my 70% binding with ultralight tech bindings being reserved for fall-you-die steep skiing or massive planned touring days.

So when would you make the decision to switch over to alpine bindings aka STH16 etc?

[Alkasquawlik]

In case you all want to hear the hour long origin story of this binding, here the words from the chief engineer and get more details behind it, Blister just posted a podcast with Chris Rubes, designer Benoit Sublet and I: LINK

[NW_SKIER]

For me, the SHIFT will be my 70% binding with ultralight tech bindings being reserved for fall-you-die steep skiing or massive planned touring days.

Thank you for finally answering my question about whether or not you would use the shift for a big tour.

I second Leavenworth skiers question about Sth2. Will you ever ski those anymore?

[TexasGortex]

Yeah and that market is 0 on TGR pretty much. I can imagine that this binding may entice boot makers to start putting tech fittings on any boot with a walk mode.

Also, let's not forget that frame bindings are much cheaper than this binding, especially on the used market.

It’s at least 1 on TGR... me. I have alpine boots and frame bindings specifically because of injury/safety concerns. This binding is what I’ve wanted for years. My next boots will now have tech fittings, no question. Finally.

I’ve really enjoyed what my Guardians and Trekkers have allowed me to do, but they have substantial downsides that I won’t miss.

[Stairmaster]

Awesome so stoked.

[1000-oaks]

Tecton's/Kingpins are ultimately tech bindings and TUV classifies them as such.

Though these two are in a similar weight class, I wouldn't group them together functionally. The Kingpin functions as a burly/heavy-duty traditional tech binding (all release is at heel), while the Tecton is a lightweight variation of the Shift concept (elastic horizontal release at toe, alpine-style heel that slides back in tour mode, etc).

[el hefe]

Stoked for these, thanks for the info.

[CaliBrit]

Why do this big media release for a product that isn’t available until fall ‘18? (They look fucking awesome though)