where do these sexual assault people come from?

[wooley12]

For millions of years humans took a shit where they stood. It is in the DNA. But for a better society we have learned to control our natural urges to shit on the sidewalk. It is called self control. We teach it to two year olds. We are taught to control our natural urges. We could teach this.

[TahoeJ]

Taking a shit on the sidewalk is not more pleasurable than sitting on a nice warm toilet, so it's a false comparison. The biological urge to fuck and reproduce is hardly the same thing.

It hasn't even been that long since getting a small cut on your finger infected could kill you. We're not nearly as advanced as we like to think. Ill advised strategy makes a great point - if you don't want as many shitty men out there, stop having sex / reproducing with them so much while ignoring the good ones. It's a cliche that a lot of feminists flinch at but it's absolutely true.

This in no way excuses any behavior, I should add.

[wooley12]

Your first statement is your opinion. That's OK. Are you saying men can't keep it in their pants? Humans have no self control?

[Bromontana]

Ill advised strategy makes a great point - if you don't want as many shitty men out there, stop having sex / reproducing with them so much while ignoring the good ones. It's a cliche that a lot of feminists flinch at but it's absolutely true.

An aggressive guy can easily bang 20-50+ women a year. It's not hard, it just takes dedication. For the kind, sweet guy that many women pretend to want on the internet, the range tops out around 5/yr, if that. Being aggressive towards women in a sexual context is the smart thing to do if you're a single guy that doesn't want marriage.

If you know anything about feedback loops, that should give you pause. It goes on both sides, but effort is much more rewarding when it's not pissed into the wind.

[mtngirl79]

So, Yeti, even though you were raised by women, to respect women do you feel rapey? Is it an urge you have to resist.

I know that sounds terrible, but I'm really curious and I don't knoe how to ask it without sounding confrontational..

[Dexter Rutecki]

All I did was replace one "looks like" with another looks like.

One, completely taboo. You can find 18 year olds that look 12 and 12 year olds that look 18.

The other... nude pictures of women posted online without their permission.... sure, you will say it's not ok if pressed, but will you take a stand?

Both hard to tell for sure..

Not sure what you mean by both hard to tell, but for the record I wasn't 'pressed' by anyone to say what I said at the outset--those photos are wrong and shouldn't be tolerated. Period. You want to apply the same standard to a photo that apparently was consensual, and that's where I disagree.

I still don't see why you are bringing the issue of how old someone looks into this--clearly there has to be an objective standard, and so if someone happens to look younger (by your definition of it, I guess) we have to live with that. I guess the only solution would be to say that only people over the age of 25 can consent to photos, or something like that.

edit: my impression is that you probably want to discuss the presence of these kinds of threads (photos) in general, which I certainly think is worth discussion. Would I be happier if they weren't here? Probably--especially given that they may drive away female members, which I think is a real failing of this message board. In any given thread the female perspective is largely absent, and while I'm not sure what that means for ski specific topics, it certainly diminishes many other threads. But you have still made a lot of assumptions (some about me) that aren't accurate.

So...



Looping back to the beginning of the thread...this kind of "humor" is often camouflage for those who do the deeds you were scratching your head about. Don't be sucked into their game. And don't be suckered into a wrestling match with mtngirl. Whether you agree with her 100% or not, she is talking about substantive issues. Issues where she has a view into things that you and I do not. Getting into a personal tussle just takes attention off the big picture. I can just about guarantee that the stuff you started the thread about about has been going on all around you.

I don't deny that it is happening all over the place, but I will still say that I have been in work environments where this was not present. Again, these were very small outfits, and I can't say the same about some other places that were larger (for example, I worked at a place that was originally just a few guys, and then a woman was added--there is simply no way that anything changed in terms of the dynamics at work, and I was present for virtually every interaction--in addition, I was quite close with her and we spent hours outside of work talking about every aspect of our colleagues). I think to assume that this stuff must occur at every single place of work is by its nature bound to be incorrect--again, not saying it isn't prevalent, just that there are environments where it might not happen, and to some extent I think there can be an institutional bias that makes such problems more or less likely.

I'm not gonna be all Louis C.K. supporter, but this is worth contemplating in light of the general case of power asymmetries. Especially gender ones. And their likely impact on the threads in question.

I mean, the fact that C.K. had to note this fact about the power dynamic with subordinates, which seems painfully obvious, is embarrassing.

[mtngirl79]

I brought it up as a comparison. Replace the something considered kinda bad, but tolerated with something absolutely not tolerated.

It went over your head.

[jono]

it should be astonishing anybody would defend the obvious overall treatment of women on this board but it's not.

Did I miss that somewhere? Maybe we're seeing it differently. Who do you think is defending the overall treatment of women on this board?

[jono]

I mean, the fact that C.K. had to note this fact about the power dynamic with subordinates, which seems painfully obvious, is embarrassing.

I think that's part of why it took so long to "break" the story in entertainment circles: unlike most workplaces these aren't strictly subordinate/superior relationships like there are for most of us. If this stuff goes on prior to any professional relationship forming the dynamic might make it feel harder to report. Who do you go to when there's no HR department and you just got talked into going to some perv's hotel room? Shame component goes up and the options go down...just what predators want. SAG etc. should have done a lot more to protect its members.

[cloudpeak]

Why does a ski message board need to have porn photos of women?

Asking for a friend.

[Dexter Rutecki]

I brought it up as a comparison. Replace the something considered kinda bad, but tolerated with something absolutely not tolerated.

It went over your head.

Yeah, and the analogy didn't work, which you seem unable to grasp despite having it clearly explained to you.

I could try to make an argument against jaywalking by referring to murder, but that would be idiotic. Maybe that will help you understand this.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Did I miss that somewhere? Maybe we're seeing it differently. Who do you think is defending the overall treatment of women on this board?

I don't think anyone has done that in this thread, but the argument has been made in the past, I think.

[Kinnikinnick]

Why does a ski message board need to have porn photos of women?

Asking for a friend.

It doesn’t have to have porn...
Or Politics
Or biking
Or gimp central
Or music
Or fishing
Or sexual politics
Or non ski tech talk
Or gifs
Or divorce
Or movies
Or college football
Or nhl
Or nfl
Or soccer
Or guns
Or jeans
Or weed
Or stock market
Or word association
Or caturday (what ever happened to that?)
Or second floor bathrooms
Or PGA
Or Airbnb
Or running
Or dogs
Or beer
Or wine
Or bbqing
Or kitties
Or hot tubs
Or shit that annoys you
Or shit that doesn’t annoy you but should
Or bathrobes
Or Hans solo
Or police
Or pressure cookers
Or MLB
Or Roasting
Or KQ Claus
Or wood
Or insurance
Or Paleo
Or cars
Or furniture
Or jeopardy
Or VWs
Or wildlife
Or mortgages
Or UFC
Or drugs
Or fake service dogs


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[mtngirl79]

Yeah, and the analogy didn't work, which you seem unable to grasp despite having it clearly explained to you.

I could try to make an argument against jaywalking by referring to murder, but that would be idiotic. Maybe that will help you understand this.

We can do it with jaywalking and murder.

Jaywalking is just an annoying thing people do... barely against the law. Joking about it isn't a big deal.

Murder is a real crime that hurts people.

Most people would not really care if they were accused of jaywalking.

Accused of murder is a big deal. Yo wouldnt want it ti look like you might have commiteed murder just like you wouldn't want it to even look like you posted pictures of underage girls.

You guys treat posting pictures without permission like Jaywalking.

[wyeaster]

It doesn’t have to have porn...
Or Politics
Or biking
Or gimp central
Or music
Or fishing
Or sexual politics
Or non ski tech talk
Or gifs
Or divorce
Or movies
Or college football
Or nhl
Or nfl
Or soccer
Or guns
Or jeans
Or weed
Or stock market
Or word association
Or caturday (what ever happened to that?)
Or second floor bathrooms
Or PGA
Or Airbnb
Or running
Or dogs
Or beer
Or wine
Or bbqing
Or kitties
Or hot tubs
Or shit that annoys you
Or shit that doesn’t annoy you but should
Or bathrobes
Or Hans solo
Or police
Or pressure cookers
Or MLB
Or Roasting
Or KQ Claus
Or wood
Or insurance
Or Paleo
Or cars
Or furniture
Or jeopardy
Or VWs
Or wildlife
Or mortgages
Or UFC
Or drugs
Or fake service dogs


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

all the same as objectifying women -- half the population with far less than half the economic and political power -- on the basest terms possible. moms, wives, sisters, daughters. for profit and pleasure.

[Kinnikinnick]

We can do it with jaywalking and murder.

Jaywalking is just an annoying thing people do... barely against the law. Joking about it isn't a big deal.

Murder is a real crime that hurts people.

Most people would not really care if they were accused of jaywalking.

Accused of murder is a big deal. Yo wouldnt want it ti look like you might have commiteed murder just like you wouldn't want it to even look like you posted pictures of underage girls.

You guys treat posting pictures without permission like Jaywalking.

If you have evidence that a crime was committed, call the police.


But wait it’s just your conjecture isn’t it?




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[ill-advised strategy]

So, Yeti, even though you were raised by women, to respect women do you feel rapey? Is it an urge you have to resist.

I know that sounds terrible, but I'm really curious and I don't knoe how to ask it without sounding confrontational..

No...the whole idea of having sex with a stranger is just weird to me. I don't want anyone I don't know and trust to see me naked, I don't want my dick inside anyone I don't have a pretty good idea they're disease free and not crazy...etc. I just don't relate to the urge to copulate with strangers, I mean, I'm not trying to judge anyone but I just don't get it.....let alone a woman who's not into me...the raping and prostitution and all the various forms of sex-with-a-gal-who's-not-into-you....real difficult for me to relate to....although I do see how that develops; if a guy has developmental experiences with prostitutes or girls who aren't sure what they're in for...the whole body language of "I'm not sure I want this" becomes entangled with arousal. So I can understand that aspect academically, but it's tough to relate.


and I think I failed to adequately explain the basis for my "opinion"(s) about this. In wildland firefighting, you don't just show up and work a shift with some strangers and go home, you live life with 20-25 other mostly-men for months at a time, sometimes for years. Several things happened over and over and over again, enough for me to form a series of beliefs:
1) The handful of women on various crews always slept with the gross, lecherous, aggressive guys. Always, no exception.
2) Those guys always had nice wives/girlfriends and treated them like shit...beyond cheating on them while on the road and with female crewmembers.
3) When we were on the road, I never went looking for sex, but I was in about a 10-15% group of those who didn't.
4) The gross, aggressive, lecherous guys always took pity on me...thinking I had something wrong because I wasn't out chasing women when we were staying overnight on a road trip. Their advice was always to learn to act like an asshole, and just approach tons of women with the asshole routine until you find the one who likes to fuck assholes, because that's a type you will usually find with enough reps.
5) The guys who were not gross, aggressive, and lecherous were almost always single.
6) There was sometimes obnoxious speculation that I was gay because I wasn't into the predatory "hunting chicks" while on the road scene.

You should watch the movie Slap Shot. For one, it's an all-time great movie and one of Paul Newman's very best...but also because there's a very realistic portrayal of some of the dynamics that I experienced living, working, and traveling with a bunch of guys.

It's pretty easy to see where the genes are coming from. Yeah, you can socialize people out of all kinds of stuff. Durr. But my point, which seems to have been lost, is that in doing so you're fighting nature...which is doable, but it's tough. To use the shitting where they stand analogy, the beaches of many inhabited places in Africa are just full of human turds. Wherever you live, there's a nursing home where people revert to shitting themselves just like they also often revert to saying lewd things to the staff....there was a resident who used to say hilariously explicit stuff to me when I was a student nurse. Fighting nature...it's a tall order.

[Dexter Rutecki]

We can do it with jaywalking and murder.

Jaywalking is just an annoying thing people do... barely against the law. Joking about it isn't a big deal.

Murder is a real crime that hurts people.

Most people would not really care if they were accused of jaywalking.

Accused of murder is a big deal. Yo wouldnt want it ti look like you might have commiteed murder just like you wouldn't want it to even look like you posted pictures of underage girls.

You guys treat posting pictures without permission like Jaywalking.

OK, fine, but again, you have changed the terms of the argument.

Not to mention that you seem to continue to assume that a photo was taken without permission, when in fact the poster explicitly stated that it was (jokes about it notwithstanding). And AFAIK, no one in this thread has taken the position that posting pictures like those is victimless and harmless, like jaywalking. I for one have been very clear that such photos shouldn't be tolerated, and I haven't seen anyone take a different position on that..

[ill-advised strategy]

The other major basis for my understanding(s) of people and these dynamics comes from having spent a lot of intimate (not sexually intimate) time with my nursing and fire dispatching cohorts, both of which were the opposite of fire crews, being mainly female. I've observed the dynamic of women complaining about the bad men, then complaining that the good men aren't exciting for them. So...what many of them appear to want is a guy who appears mean and aggressive and high-testosterone, but also turns those appearances and behaviors off and on immediately on command...which really doesn't exist. So, the nice guy is too boring, and the sexy guy cheats on you or worse. I observed so much of that....so, really, there's not a lot anyone can say to persuade me it's not a real and common dynamic.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Dexter, you need to realize that you can't win an ever changing "argument" and stop.

Someone way back mentioned that the PR stuff was likely the reason there are so few woman here. I lurk on AZ to read comments from beaters that ski at my local and post how badass they are. If you look at the poster there you will find next to no woman just like here. And that is with heavy moderation.
Face it, women don't want to be on a lot of sports sites, period. I don't recall ever seeing a single female poster on the Apriliaforum in the last 14 years.

I avoid threads with content or excessive posters of drivel and will avoid more as time goes on.

[jono]

Why does a ski message board need to have porn photos of women?

Asking for a friend.

I keep trying to get my head around this. Are you suggesting that Ullr is not, in fact, sitting on a cloud refreshing the page and bestowing powder in 6" servings with every such post? I mean, I'm sure you're not suggesting such heresy, it's just that when you say "need" I think it implies a certain urgency, so I had to check. You do believe in Ullr's supreme control of the snow and somewhat less publicised but nevertheless totally certain porn addiction, right? Right??

[Dexter Rutecki]

Dexter, you need to realize that you can't win an ever changing "argument" and stop.

Someone way back mentioned that the PR stuff was likely the reason there are so few woman here. I lurk on AZ to read comments from beaters that ski at my local and post how badass they are. If you look at the poster there you will find next to no woman just like here. And that is with heavy moderation.
Face it, women don't want to be on a lot of sports sites, period. I don't recall ever seeing a single female poster on the Apriliaforum in the last 14 years.

I avoid threads with content or excessive posters of drivel and will avoid more as time goes on.

Points taken, and I wasn't really saying this board lacks females because of those threads--but I believe it may have kept a marginal extra few from joining or sticking around.

But yeah, chasing those goalposts is pointless.

[Mazderati]

So...what many of them appear to want is a guy who appears mean and aggressive and high-testosterone, but also turns those appearances and behaviors off and on immediately on command...which really doesn't exist.

There is some - at least rudimentary - polling floating around that shows women want to fuck beautiful men but prefer to marry men closer to average in appearance with the perceived likelihood of cheating driving that decision.

[mtngirl79]

If you have evidence that a crime was committed, call the police.


But wait it’s just your conjecture isn’t it?




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Yes. If someone was investigating that picture in a state where posting/taking nudes without permission was illegal (pretty sure taking nudes without knowledge is always illegal?) Then there evidence that it was taken without the woman's knowledge.

It looks that way and when it was questioned, Booner didn't deny it, he made a vague statement leaning towards her not knowing.

If people cared about not posting naked pictures of women without their permission, he would have insisted she knew and was ok... or not posted in the first place because it looks like she may not know... just like you wouldn't post a picture that looks like an underage girl even if it wasnt... because wouldn't want to be accused of that.

[wooley12]

You go girl!! They can't fight what's right.