MAKE TAHOE DEEP AGAIN ~ 2016/17 OFISHUL SNOW/FOOD/WHINE & STOKE THREAD

[powpig]

80-114 inches forecast for Relay Peak by Tue AM

[gnarbro365]

Just a thought...

Maybe it's been hard to hire/recruit experienced mountain ops staff (IE Patroller's who can handle AC work) to the Tahoe basin because of a bunch of horrible snow years in a row.

"Come work for us in beautiful Tahoe! We can't guarantee you work, and based on the past five years, it probably wont snow! PLUS put yourself in harms way for minimal pay. Don't forget...angry guests cursing you and your decision making in person AND online!"

I can't even imagine trying to get people to move here to help people park their cars between the lines, sell lift tickets, bump chairs, serve overpriced food, etc. for near minimum wage.

[~mikey b]

^^truth^^

Looking for a few good skiers with 1st Responder or EMT cert.

[powdrhound]

Does Sugar Bowl allow RV's to stay?
Squaw and Alpine welcome me.
Kirkwood tries to kicks us out after midnight. I am tired of that.

[~mikey b]

There are places to stay up on Donner Summit

[NorCalNomad]

sno park pass ftw

[~mikey b]

You haven't been reading

[4matic]

I don't know if this article is just marketing by Vail but it suggests Vail had at least part in the power plant.

https://www.kmpud.com/news/kirkwood-...ntal-benefits/

And at least with Vail, lifts run and open on time at Kirkwood. When chair six broke earlier this year, it got fixed quickly.

I don't love Vail but I appreciate that they didn't completely ruin Kirkwood. It's not like the first thing Vail did after buying Kirkwood was try to build a huge village and water park while neglecting mountain operations.

The credit worthiness of Vail as main customer likely helped get a lower bond rate and approval of the financing.

[old goat]

Just a thought...

Maybe it's been hard to hire/recruit experienced mountain ops staff (IE Patroller's who can handle AC work) to the Tahoe basin because of a bunch of horrible snow years in a row.

"Come work for us in beautiful Tahoe! We can't guarantee you work, and based on the past five years, it probably wont snow! PLUS put yourself in harms way for minimal pay. Don't forget...angry guests cursing you and your decision making in person AND online!"

I can't even imagine trying to get people to move here to help people park their cars between the lines, sell lift tickets, bump chairs, serve overpriced food, etc. for near minimum wage.

The cost of housing can't help with recruitment for any ski area job. Is there anywhere where that's not the case?

With patrol, it's not just how many you hire but how many are scheduled on a given day, especially on snow safety days.

[~mikey b]

Funny thing is, as shitty as patroller pay is, it's better than working on an ambulance. I make $3-4 /hour more than I would as EMT on the bus.

[BGnight]

I've been skiing Squaw for 35 years and have had a pass there most seasons for the past 25.
Everything you just described I saw all during the 90s when Cushing ran the show. It sucked then and it sucks now even more because there's more folks trying to ski there. But it's certainly nothing new.
.

+1
I've had a pass at Squaw every season (except one) since 93-94' and we've always bitched about them not opening terrain/chairs, etc...I can't speak for Alpine. There's just far more people skiing now to make things worse. It's gotten to the point that I'm starting to bitch about all the people doing backcountry now. Skiing is fun, but it's not THAAAT fun. Some of you should find new hobbies.

[TahoeJ]

To be fair ABC hardly if ever ran pre KSL when I had Alpine passes?

Not saying it always ran but it definitely ran more than it does now. In 2010 / 11 (the last year under JMA) I probably rode ABC more days than I have in the 5 years since then. It's also much more crowded now (does anyone deny that?) so it's a more egregious decision to leave it sitting there. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Maybe it's been hard to hire/recruit experienced mountain ops staff (IE Patroller's who can handle AC work) to the Tahoe basin because of a bunch of horrible snow years in a row.

It is difficult but not because of snow. It's lack of affordable housing and when you already have to wake up before 5am the last thing you want to do is drive 30-45 minutes from Reno. They *could* do something about that. Either increase the wages or secure more housing directly. A friend of mine owns a restaurant and connected bed and breakfast and was having trouble hiring and retaining workers due to housing issues. So he bought a building nearby and included subsidized apartments as part of the gig. You're telling me a small operation like that can afford such a move but Squaw can't? Bullshit. And they're only trying to make it worse for the entire Truckee / North Tahoe area by creating 700+ new mostly low-paying jobs with the new village while only providing housing for 300 of them.

During the lean drought years when KSL was whining about staff issues, Northstar and Heavenly were just churning along with plenty of employees around to ensure the customer experience wasn't impacted. Probably because they didn't just cut bait on them as soon as the season got off to a slow start.

In any other business people would say tough shit, deal with it and do something about it. Too many excuses.

Anyway, I'll stop my bitching. At least the forecast looks good after all the flooding.

[Ottime]

How were the conditions?

Good. Skier loosened on the frontside. I was with my 5 yr old, so we did not chase after the backside. Skied straight onto every lift. Seriously, cars parked out at the Inn and still no lines.

[splat]

Raining at Squaw, snowing in Reno this am, I've heard.

[Ottime]

The credit worthiness of Vail as main customer likely helped get a lower bond rate and approval of the financing.

That may have helped but the project to bring power to the valley began 8 years before Vail bought the place through a partnership between KSL (homeowners) and the power plant. Everyone who uses energy in the valley is paying off the bond. Vail showed up at the eleventh hour and likes to take full credit as if they made it happen.

And lifts never open on "time" on powder days. Not shocked or disappointed but on Tuesday 6 had an ETA of 9:30 and 10@10. 6 opened at 9:50 and 10 around noon. Not that much different that the pre Vail days. Control work takes time.

Also, Vail shuts down lifts whenever someone poaches. They don't post management or patrol at closures like The old KW.

I love KW and see little need to ski else where, but Vail could do a whole bunch more to improve the place. One case in point, my son was scheduled for ski school on Wednesday. Seeing the conditions, I called over to see if ski school was cancelled. It was. No shuttle in valley and likely no lifts. I get an automated email when I sign up for a lesson, but when I asked why I didn't get one about cancellation, I was told it would take too long to email everyone. Sure, but it could be automated and a manager would need to write one email and press a button. I was then told the managers were not there as they road was closed. First, managers should be working from home if that is the case and second, build some ducking manager housing for when storms hit so you actually have some experience managers on site when the shit hits the fans. It sucks that they leave it to their hourly employees to deal with the shit show that ensues.

Talk with any KW employee candidly and you'll here how Vail refused to invest at KW. Vail says they will invest when more people show up. But people like working lifts and good guest services before they are willing to $100 lift tickets, $30/night room rates and $14 plain nachos.

I was there for 8 days skiing superb conditions every day and only waited in line three times Tuesday and twice on Thursday. Literally rolled onto every other lift over 100k lift served on every possible except 1 and 9 (did not take these).

Not really complaining as it is not all that different than pre Vail except now the only place to eat is 7800.

The Kirkwood Inn was closed this week. We had planned to give it another post Vail try, but they had it shut down. I used to have to make a reservation to get in there during a holiday week. Buns used to be pack, and Off the Wall a 45 minute wait at lunch. Vail can't even seem to make the food service work for them.

[roverdoc]

Very disappointing last few years at Squaw Alpine. Agree with most of the comments above. Time to move my family season passes elsewhere. The inability to open terrain with even a hint of a storm is ridiculous for a world renowned resort such as Squaw. I lived it Utah for 5 recently and had my best days on cold and very windy storm days in LCC and BCC with the lifts spinning!

[AKbruin]

Raining at 7k on Rubicon. One of my binding toe pins broke, cheating me out of these glorious conditions. (Please don't ski anything steeper than 30 degrees, folks.)

[MrSmith]

That's ridiculous. SB's terrain is flat, boring, and super short. Might as well be skiing Homewood. There's a reason people go to Alpine and Squaw in droves - the skiing is better.

The terrain is irrelevant to me when there are hour long waits for Roundhouse. I fully understand the complex terrain at Alpine and don't really care to over analyze the issue. Fact is I've had multiple excellent days this season actually out there making turns while friends at Squaw/Alpine were complaining about conditions. But teledad is right, I should probably keep my mouth shut.

[Ottime]

I think his comments were sarcastic.

[TahoeJ]

The terrain is irrelevant to me when there are hour long waits for Roundhouse. I fully understand the complex terrain at Alpine and don't really care to over analyze the issue. Fact is I've had multiple excellent days this season actually out there making turns while friends at Squaw/Alpine were complaining about conditions. But teledad is right, I should probably keep my mouth shut.

Meter man was kidding... he doesn't want all of us fed up Squawlpine skiers coming over there and making the lines longer.

Bummer about the rain levels so early, although not surprising. I will, however, take some smug satisfaction towards all of my Bay Area friends who ignored my advice and drove up this weekend anyway.

[Shred Baron]

I've been looking into doing an Avalanche 1 refresher. Looks like ASI are the only one offers a course. Has anyone done a a refresher. It's been ~10 years since I took the level one. Want to make sure I don't regret not redoing a level one. Any recommendations would be welcomed.

[meter-man]

No, for real. SB is surprisingly flat, boring, no technical terrain, no pitch over 400 vert. And Ops never gets anything open on time. If you like skiing Squaw Creek chair, you'll love Sugar Bowl. Easy to get the mountain open when the only real avy terrain (i.e., the only STEEP terrain) is in the Palisades and Silver Belt/58.

Any idea why Rahlves is the only big name pro to call SB home? Because they can only afford to pay one guy's salary, and anyone looking for real terrain would go elsewhere. And yeah, that guy can ski just about anywhere in the world for free, so why not have a mellow local mountain that pays you to ski with the fam, when you can hop aboard any AK heli, BC cat, Euro resort, or any other N. Am ski area for free? Seriously, Squaw (or Alpine/Kirkwood) skiers would be bored at SB halfway through their first season.

Ottime knows what I'm talking about.

[Driver]

Kwood skied very well yesterday. Definitely consolidated, wind affected but overall great snow and good times. Mountain Ops did a great job getting everything open in some of the highest consequence snowpack conditions we've had in a while. As evidence of this, basically every aspect on the mountain that could have slid was set off by patrol and went BIG. The crown shown above is at the wave and that isn't the only 10 ft + crown. Took out trees, debris the size of trucks, etc.

The saddle / backside popped at about noon and while still fairly consolidated/heavy, super fun with soft spots and all the lines are full opened up.

I am going to go the opposite way from many of the frustrated people here. The areas have significant economic incentives to get the hills open. When people have great days skiing at their hill, it builds their brand/reputation, creates stories, and happy customers. But at the same time you have to understand the conditions they are dealing with here. While probabilities certainly decreased by yesterday, the destructive potential is massive and the responsible thing to do is work extremely cautiously. Patrol we talked to yesterday at kwood were on their game, working hard, and rightly very cautious given the magnitude of the avy problem. Knowing Squaw I have no doubt its a similar situation there. I get that people are frustrated that they couldn't see what they wanted, but I find it highly unlikely there is some sinister plot to keep you from skiing in otherwise safe conditions, or that mountain ops are inept. We have a great snowpack setting up for the season and colder snow coming next week, life is good!

[roverdoc]

I think the bigger issue is not this week alone but the trend since ownership change. No one should argue that the snowpack is volatile right now and consequences high for uncontrolled terrain. Props to kirkwood ski patrol for putting in the work and getting terrain open.

[old goat]

When it comes to crowds I do try to remember that I'm just as much a part of the problem as anyone else, although that can be hard to do when someone skis over your tails at speed in the KT lift line. I'll stop ranting about KSL for now and go back to whining about the rain.