MAKE TAHOE DEEP AGAIN ~ 2016/17 OFISHUL SNOW/FOOD/WHINE & STOKE THREAD

[4matic]

Anyone hear what's up with the Carson spur

If it doesn't open tomorrow it could be closed for a week.

[4matic]

I have to give KSL credit for good communication but it really seems that they don't know how to run a resort. Squaw and Alpine have a ton of avalanche terrain but so does Kirkwood. I know that the avalanche danger was very high with this storm and safety is paramount but it seems like KSL could have done a better job managing the conditions to give their passholdes a better experience.

What do you expect for $500? Before KSL a pass was $1500.

[reid]

Sounds like KW was a lot like it was last Christmas -- roads closed both ways, just a handful of us having a grand ol' time on the mountain.

[hercule33]

What do you expect for $500? Before KSL a pass was $1500.

I expect them to compete with Vail in terms of price and quality of skiing. Take Kirkwood for example. Ever since Vail took over drinks and food cost a ridiculous amount but the mountain operations are much better. And my pass cost $500 and I can ride at Heavenly and Northstar, which by the way did a great job opening the mountain today.

And yes I understand that to open more terrain they would need to raise their pass prices but guess what, Squaw/Alpine terrain is way better than what Vail offers. That is if it's open.

I have to give KSL credit for good communication but it really seems that they don't know how to run a resort. Squaw and Alpine have a ton of avalanche terrain but so does Kirkwood. I know that the avalanche danger was very high with this storm and safety is paramount but it seems like KSL could have done a better job managing the conditions to give their passholdes a better experience.

[irul&ublo]

What do you expect for $500? Before KSL a pass was $1500.

Pass price at Alpine dropped before KSL bought them. I'm still pissed they won't let the patrollers sell avy dog t shirts anymore. Mine are wearing out.

[hercule33]

Sounds like KW was a lot like it was last Christmas -- roads closed both ways, just a handful of us having a grand ol' time on the mountain.

After Vail bought Kirkwood they connected it to the power grid (November 2014) significantly improving the safety and reliability of the electrical service.

I am not huge fan of Vail but I have to say that they run their resorts much better than KSL.

[spnce]

I am not huge fan of Vail but I have to say that they run their resorts much better than KSL.

Is this normal?
Serious question. I feel like I'm losing perspective.

[old goat]

I've been skiing Squaw and Alpine for 40 years. There have been a lot of storms much bigger than this one and stuff opened a lot faster. Still no KT or Oly, Granite, or Headwall. Sherwood is supposed to open--tomorrow, but it won't because it will be storming again. It's not cheap passes that are the problem--they are selling enough of them to make up for the lower price 5 times over. It's pretty clear that the money is going into hiring lawyers and lobbyists and PR flacks to try to get the village development through and not into operations. Think of the money they spent to stop incorporation and to bribe the AG into dropping their opposition. KSL's way of sticking it to the locals who oppose their plans and who won't be the ones buying luxury condos in the village. The excuses for the non-openings posted on the web site are just a bunch of lame bullshit--they aren't spending the manhours it takes to get terrain open in a hurry, it's as simple as that. BTW--I wonder if the gazex's are a way for Squalpine to hire fewer patrollers. They were billed as allowing them to get the mountains open faster. What crap.

My prediction--operations will continue to deteriorate, KSL won't get their village any time soon and won't be able to pay back their investors, and will sell, probably to Vail. Vail may be another big evil corporation but at least they seem to be willing to spend the money to actually operate.

[gone2alpine]

Well said Old Goat.

[4matic]

The CEO of KSL is a ClubCorp guy. ClubCorp doesn't make money and the stock shows it. I'm sure he's following the same business model and the goal all along was sell it to the public. Doubt that happens.

Vail otoh is a well run company with rocket to the moon stock and they stick to what they do well.

Agree with OG. KSL is on the clock.

Wonder if the cold temps froze what left iof the pow?

[BGnight]

Pretty sure the delay in getting KT, headwall, etc.. open is the fact that these lifts haven't even ran this season and then they get a 4' storm with high avy danger. Even I didn't expect them to have that stuff open and I bitch about it more than most (mostly I bitch about Alpine cuz Squaw's patrol have their shit together in comparison). Had this storm been mid season they probably would have all been open today.

[4matic]

North Side got considerably more snow too.

[TahoeJ]

After this week I'm done with Squaw and the shit show. I'll be at Sugar Bowl next season. Alpine Meadows will still be my favorite mountain in Tahoe but the Squaw spillover effect and lack of competition has ruined the place. Fuck KSL and their bullshit excuses. Snowbird, Alta, Jackson, Whistler, etc. have just as much avy terrain (some with a consistently less stable snowpack) and they get shit open. Period. I don't want hear the excuses - I've heard several people who have been going there for decades say exactly what OldGoat did above. Not to mention that the operational equipment they're working with these days is vastly superior and more efficient. It's man hours and saving money.

Agreed that Vail at least knows how to run a fucking ski resort unlike these cheap bastards.

[mandudebro]

So pick one chair and focus resources on it to open it. If they cared for loyal customer experience and wanted to open new terrain, it's not that hard. The mtn hasn't changed, nor have the Tahoe storms.

[powdork]

When are they gonna drop the Alpine Meadows name and just call it 'the backside'. Then they can open it just before the holidays and close it mid march. Keep it closed during storms, etc.

[lepistoir]

Every time I see this topic pop up, I feel compelled to add my two cents and that is this: KSL is private equity. They have no interest in soaking Squaw for revenue. They only want to resell it at a profit in less than five years preferably. To that end, they only care about things that make it look like a profitable business and increase value to a potential buyer. Lowering overhead such as labor costs is one shortcut in. Having the easements for a super village is also a value add. They really don't care about the weekday local skier. What do you add for a potential buyer looking to invest in a profitable business? Some color? That's pretty easy for them to hire. What KSL is selling is a customer who spends $1000 per day and brings their whole family of five for a week. And that's why they worked so hard to secure approval of the village. I think since locals really don't have any's say and our dollars aren't enough to really hold any sway, as for all North Shore locals to go to Squaw and Alpine especially on weekends and make the line superlong, clog up the traffic in, and make it generally a horrible experience that everyone goes home and complains about. There might be another kind of direct action that actually works better to win the legions of commuters and vacationers to the local side while also sending a message to KSL and potential buyers, but I can't come up with one right now. Would love suggestions

[mcski]

Im with tahoejay and old goat. The upside down snowpack is fuck and a lot to deal with but they've done it many times before in years past. Money is simply getting spent else where. Ive been skiing squaw and alpine since the early nineties but I wish I had bought a pass else where this year. I definitely will next year.

Glad to know they are under some investor pressure. I hope this whole thing goes sideways for ksl and they are all bent over for this bullshit.

[spnce]

There might be another kind of direct action that actually works better to win the legions of commuters and vacationers to the local side while also sending a message to KSL and potential buyers, but I can't come up with one right now. Would love suggestions

The internet is a pretty loud megaphone. If googling squaw valley turns up a reputation of underfunded ski operations, people will think twice before booking. Forum posts are probably marginally effective though.

[neufox47]

Flying into Sacramento next Wednesday the 11th. Current plan is to stay at the Mellow Mnt Hostel and ski Kirkwood or heavenly. Worried about being able to get to the mountain though. Is driving from South Lake to Kirkwood going to be impossible in snow? Will have chains for the rental. Also, anyone stayed at the hostel? Odds I get bed bugs or HIV?

[FormerKnuckleDragger]

This is at least double- or triple-hearsay, but the word is KSL fired something in the neighborhood of 30-40 mountain ops people in the last two years, including more senior management. Anyone have solid info on this? Those folks probably don't want to badmouth KSL in the hopes of finding future employment elsewhere.

Also, delayed opening of KT for the weekend crowd is standard financial hold operating procedure, going back to the Cushing days. Granite Chief is an old(er) lift that's hard to get to, so I'm willing to chalk that one up to chance. As for Headwall, I wonder how good the skiing is going to be after the whole mountain slid yesterday (I'm guessing it wrapped around to North Bowl and Garbage Chutes too). The bed surface was pretty firm before the recent storms.

Anyway, I'm beholden to the Squaw/Alpine overlords, as my family has a house in the valley. I'd probably be at Sugar Bowl if not.

[SchralphMacchio]

Truckee River forecast bumped to 13' at Reno as of this morning, 3' above containment. Anyone in Verdi or Reno should plan to get extra batteries for light, backup heat source, water & food just in case this thing truly gets rowdy on Sunday.

8' crowns inbounds, deep persistent slab problem being triggered remotely from starting zones, massive flooding forecasted, and some of you guys are bitching about sidecountry gates and lift lines???

[MrSmith]

I think of Alpine as my home mountain but my fun level there just keeps plummeting. For various reasons I ended up shelling out for a midweek Sugar Bowl pass in addition to my Squalpine silver this year. Best move ever, best days so far by far have been at Sugar Bowl and I'm about to have another.

[4matic]

Flying into Sacramento next Wednesday the 11th. Current plan is to stay at the Mellow Mnt Hostel and ski Kirkwood or heavenly. Worried about being able to get to the mountain though. Is driving from South Lake to Kirkwood going to be impossible in snow? Will have chains for the rental. Also, anyone stayed at the hostel? Odds I get bed bugs or HIV?

You can almost always get to and from Kirkwood once a day from south lake. Rare that the pass is closed for the day. Stagecoach lift at Heavenly is a reliable storm option.

It's extremely rare that day trippers get stranded at Kirkwood. They always have one timed exit from the resort.

[4matic]

KSL did weather the worst snow drought in decades but the whole village thing regardless of environment is questionable. Northstar is a much better location for affluent year round living.

[TahoeJ]

The internet is a pretty loud megaphone. If googling squaw valley turns up a reputation of underfunded ski operations, people will think twice before booking. Forum posts are probably marginally effective though.

I already had something in the works and had been discussing it with certain folks, but was going to wait until closer to the spring to launch - now I'm motivated to move things up a bit. I'll probably end up getting my pass cancelled as a result, but oh well, I've still got the Epic Local and the BC.

And it's not like it's just because of this week. This kind of bullshit has been going on for the last few years. They often used the drought as a convenient excuse - now they have none.