MAKE TAHOE DEEP AGAIN ~ 2016/17 OFISHUL SNOW/FOOD/WHINE & STOKE THREAD

[2clue]

Tahoe is the new Colorado, apparently...

No kidding...that's not a pretty sight right there.

[TahoeBC]

Don't know if anyone found anything good to ski, but it was the holy grail for Fat biking out there today!

[buttahflake]

Holy shit! That is freaking awesome.

[SchralphMacchio]

That actually looks pretty sick! Fresh tracks look like must be like a cross between moist singletrack and slick rock sandstone!

[TahoeJ]

That first pic should get sent to BIKE magazine... sweet! Take any video? Curious how fast you get moving in those conditions.

[Ottime]

Glad I check in here and SAC. Just found time to read today, and I would have thought the rain penetrated deep enough below 9000'.

Historic would be scary.

Powdork - based on what you saw at eback, did it seem it broke on the PWL? From the pick it looks like a layer above the bottom.

[SchralphMacchio]

Avalanche problems like this are exactly why the NA Danger Scale should be abolished for recreational use forecasts. Or at least shown at the bottom of the page, well below the avalanche problems.

[TahoeBC]

Not to play down what the experts say but based on what I skied and biked the last two days, seems like the snow is pretty well bridged, nearly zero penetration at least in the areas I've been the last two days.

[TahoeJ]

Avalanche problems like this are exactly why the NA Danger Scale should be abolished for recreational use forecasts. Or at least shown at the bottom of the page, well below the avalanche problems.

You mean because it's going to shift back to low from moderate this week (I would guess) even though that PWL is still lurking?

[skier666]

Some shots from yesterday at Kirkwood below...

My daughter had a mini-Jets eval so we were going regardless of rain or snow. Pulling up in the lot, the upper mountain looked $$$$$. Then we took a few runs on Chair 7 and found it a bit frozen. Headed over to the Village at 10am and it was super crowded as Chair 5 & 6 had some icing issues on the lift. Saw Coop and he said that it was FIRM up top so I headed to 7 to do more groomers until I was informed that 6 just popped. Did around 7 runs in there from Monte's all the way to Rabbits. Skied Chamoix and found great snow until the exit of the air. The snow was weird. The top 30% on the main runs like Olympic, Sentinel, Rabbits all held winter turns but off trail was another story. I cruised around Oops and Poops (of course), Ski School Chute and found hard snow conditions that was still grippy with an hard edge...kind of fun on the super steep zones in its own unique way, but the frozen pow turns in the flats and gullies were atrocious. By the end of the day, you could feel the snow slowly trying to break up a bit (as you can see in the pics) but Monte's with all the skiers breaking up the crust layer had the best turns of the day by a wide margin. Groomers were crazy firm but edgeable on fat skis with finesse. Had a beer at lunch and then skied with my son for a few hours and was happy with the day's turns in the mountains. The upper mountain in caked.

Still having trouble finding the perfect spot for my GoPro Session...loved the side mount and angle of my old Contour but I'm one hell of a time finding that ideal angle. If anyone has found the perfect solution PM me.

Looks good from here:



Warm up laps at Timber Creek...



Cornice Chair looked prime but looks can be deceiving...



Chamoix? Why not...



Winter conditions in here...



Ski School Chute was fun and skiable...



Oops and Poops was technical due to snow conditions...



...didn't see any other brave soul in there all day...hmmmm



Sentinel Bowl at the end of the day with the older boy...



Looking out West with a light show...

[TahoeBC]

That first pic should get sent to BIKE magazine... sweet! Take any video? Curious how fast you get moving in those conditions.

You could move pretty fast, and climb pretty amazing pitches, do have video

Link
https://vimeo.com/195392361

[SchralphMacchio]

Not to play down what the experts say but based on what I skied and biked the last two days, seems like the snow is pretty well bridged, nearly zero penetration at least in the areas I've been the last two days.

Relying on bridging isn't a winning "long term strategy" if you're in the wrong terrain (Google "Sheep Creek avalanche accident." But also you're not exactly bike riding around in starting zones, etc. I think the bigger concern is if it doesn't warm up before another round of precip we could have some isolated areas with rotten snow that are fine now, but won't be fine once you add the weight of new snow on top. Lots of uncertainty and high consequences in these areas, even if probability of triggering is micro.

You mean because it's going to shift back to low from moderate this week (I would guess) even though that PWL is still lurking?

No, because many (most?) people don't know that Moderate also means that large to historic scale avalanches are possible in isolated areas via human trigger. The NA Danger Scale provides no specific information about scale, consequences, or location. Some people who don't understand the ratings stay home during Considerable danger days with Windslab problems (don't ski lee faces above treeline) and then go ski gnarly terrain on Moderate days with Persistent Slab problems (don't ski anything near runout zones where persistent slabs may exist). I'm guilty of such things.

The scale won't shift to low unless "human triggered unlikely" applies. This won't likely happen until PST results become much less consistent for propogation potential in pit data provided by professional observers and the public observations as well. I can't remember the last time we had a persistent slab problem rated Low, but I'm getting older with less functioning brain cells these days.

[mmmm...pow!]

Schralph, there's only so much you can dumb stuff down (and this applies to much more than just avy forecasts). The person that doesn't take the extra time to read the actual forecast beyond the rating is most likely out there without training, without digging pits, but they got the gear and the fancy new airbag, so they're good to go. Reading the fine print would just confuse them anyway, because then they would need to figure out the difference between lee and windward, know how to determine different aspects - too much work, not enough gnar.
And there's been plenty of times with a low rating and PWL, especially when spacial variability makes them harder to detect, but it's known that they exist somewhere within the area with potential for big consequences.
And TahoeBC, killing it, unreal pics. How often does the front tire punch through unexpectedly throwing you OTB?

[TahoeBC]

And TahoeBC, killing it, unreal pics. How often does the front tire punch through unexpectedly throwing you OTB?

Not once today, but it happens, all depends on conditions, doubt you could possibly hit better conditions than what we had today, pretty rare especially for this time of year until you get a good freeze thaw cycle going in the spring.

[powdork]

Glad I check in here and SAC. Just found time to read today, and I would have thought the rain penetrated deep enough below 9000'.

Historic would be scary.

Powdork - based on what you saw at eback, did it seem it broke on the PWL? From the pick it looks like a layer above the bottom.

Looked like a cornice break triggered it and then it stepped down several times. This pic from the SAC report shows it pretty well I think
Hard to tell here but there was a shit stain running down the main chute that is just a hair left of center in this pic


this shows it I think


and the steps down

[SchralphMacchio]

Schralph, there's only so much you can dumb stuff down

I hear you, and I don't think we should dumb it down any more. I think presenting the hazard on such a simple scale encourages that simple mindset. In other high consequence activities, your first time showing up to a local break or crag and having no clue what you are doing, you get put in place pretty quick if you throw up an American Death Triangle anchor, etc. We should be doing the same on the track.

I just get so tired of hearing "no signs of instability!," and "bomber!" from people out on the skin track who don't know the problem and just center punched some stupid exposed line with known persistent slab problems.

[bodywhomper]

I don't think I've seen "historic" used in the size scale before from SAC. Slides at that magnitude are what created things like the bowls on trimmer peak, I'm guessing.

Last years PWL slide cycle got some people pretty good, unfortunately, even a local pro with a guided group.

It ain't about penetration....

Those bike look like fun!

[TahoeBC]

Did I ride the chair with you? We were talking about the freeze hold on the Gondola and how rainy it was at Kirkwood the day before.

Its possible I would have been on the lift with my bud that's on a snowboard

[mmmm...pow!]

I don't think I've seen "historic" used in the size scale before from SAC. Slides at that magnitude are what created things like the bowls on trimmer peak, I'm guessing.

Last years PWL slide cycle got some people pretty good, unfortunately, even a local pro with a guided group.

It ain't about penetration....

Those bike look like fun!

Not sure what they mean by historic, unless they are talking about potential in the future. I'm thinking historic happens with a deep base, can't see there being enough volume in a 40" or whatever we got now base to produce something so monumental. But yeah, while there's been some deaths in the area in recent years, it's been a while since buildings or stands of trees have been taken out.

[bodywhomper]

Given the nature of that scale and our propensity to define the 100-yr, recurrence event, that's my guess; "Historic" is the 100-yr event, which could mean pulling down bigger trees.

With the additional weight, it'll be interesting to see what happens and how the warnings are elevated. If it starts hitting the fan, I bet NWS issues a warning.

TahoeBC, regarding your penetration observation, here's part of the little lecture on the SAC forecast, "These kind of avalanches will be harder to trigger in areas where a thick and supportable rain crust exists, but they may be possible in those areas as well."

That bike stuff looked fucking fun!

[TahoeBC]

It ain't about penetration....

Your wife might disagree

Point taken, have not done any digging yet, might dig a pit tomorrow to see whats going on if I get out, just looked at the video above, it is pretty eye opening.

[SchralphMacchio]

just looked at the video above, it is pretty eye opening.

Yeah what was that, a PST of like 8/100 with a super stout slab on top? That is a real deal Colorado snowpack. Last time we had something even close to that nasty it rained all the way into the facets and rounded. Not sure we'll get so lucky this time. Hopefully we find out sooner rather than later!

[bodywhomper]

Your wife might disagree

i was trying to set you up for that....

[Eastern Sierra Skier]

Just saw this video over at the Snow Brains FB page. Chris Davenport giving a great visual of todays conditions at Squaw.
Wow!
https://www.facebook.com/snowbrains/...7718115573334/

[avacadotoast]

Just to add a little perspective on all of this historic avalanche talk. I saw big slides at Rose on the slide side that I have never seen in my 13 seasons out here, so I'm inclined to be extra cautious for a while.

The only activity I've ever seen is right under the lift just lookers left of Hollywood rock go a bit and that's it (slide side isn't very steep)...that actually didn't seem to go. What went was the entire zone a little below that from the lift to the skiers right side of gold run and it ran all the way to the 'mine train' cat track. It pretty much ripped to the ground. Also the entire 'climax bowl' lookers left of the lift went pretty good. Here's a visual pink = slide