Lake Tahoe 2015/16 - Year of Godzilla Baby Jesus

[mmmm...pow!]

friend of mine came up friday, said he saw 14 wrecks on 80, this was before it closed. My wife saw three heading down friday before there were chain controls. Donner Pass Rd at Donner Lake was a freeway Friday with people thinking they could get around the chain checkpoints in truckee, finding out they couldn't and heading back. I think a lot of the carnage was people with 2WD and no chains. Not only that though--one of the wrecks my wife saw was an SUV upside down. I can't make fun of the idiots any more though, not after wrecking a 4Runner--in 4WD--when I hit a sudden snow squall near Colfax doing 50 (no chain controls at the time).

So apparently when 80 was rebuilt a few years ago there was a bit of a fuckup. As in, they used concrete, instead of asphalt, the stuff that is used everywhere else. So after a couple years of cars and trucks with chains driving on it, it is literally polished smooth. Pretty much guaranteed that there will be wrecks when it is wet, even during summer rainstorms, usually in the same spots. I believe CalTrans and CHP have even acknowledged this, though not sure if there are any plans to actually fix it.

[LightRanger]

^^^ Interesting. Hadn't thought of that but makes sense.

I seem to recall they did it because concrete weathers chain wear better than asphalt. But asphalt also wears unevenly, so, you're right. Not as smooth. But then they constantly had to repave it before. Seems like that work was never ending.

OG, when we were coming down DPR from Sugar Bowl on Friday evening at 6:30 or so there were 2WD no-chains people littering the road between Road Cut Wall area and the gate. Just spinning in place. We got caught behind a closure on Highway 20, maybe 8-10 miles short of the interchange. Multiple cars being winched up the embankment on 20 itself. Glad we went that way though. They actually opened it after we sat for about 45. 80 was closed for hours. My toddlers are fucking roadtrip rockstars, by the way. ☺

[~mikey b]

It's been over 25 years since they did that. That's when I became aware of it.

[LightRanger]

Nope. Some parts were concrete, but not all. At least, not the road surface (but it would wear through to concrete in places). They did massive sections of it in the last decade. Prior to that, they were resurfacing it almost every summer. (Referring to 80 between Truckee and Drum Forebay.)

[~mikey b]

Seems like I recall Donner Summit to the west being concrete last 25 years.

Edit: Donner Lake to the west

[old goat]

The road has always been concrete in the mountains--I can't remember where the asphalt turned to concrete--well before Nyack for sure. That concrete lasted way longer than expected. The new stuff is already showing ruts in the right lane as well as cracks and breakdown at the joints between the slabs. No way it will last as long as the original. One thing they did differently this time is to apply a thin coat of asphalt over the concrete--supposedly that gets replaced frequently. Some of that wore away the first year and a lot more since but none has been resurfaced. It's gotten really bad east of Truckee--there's a sign warning of rough pavement. I've written the Sac Bee a couple times to look into the issue, since they did a bunch of stories on how CalTrans fucked up the Bay Bridge replacement, but they aren't interested. If anyone knows how to get some media attention have at it. But I don't think there's a road surface that's been invented that would help most folks who wreck in a storm. (I remember one storm where the road was so icy that stopped cars were sliding sideways on the banked turns. I dove past about 50 banged up cars in the right lane before I had to stop in the left while they cleared the road, and past a bunch more after it opened.)

I've been stuck a few times behind 2WD cars wrecked on old 40 when chain controls are up. They should just push those cars over the edge (like that old wrecked bus--I wonder when that happened and what the story is). The people who own those cars shouldn't be allowed to drive.

[SchralphMacchio]

There is no really good solution because there is no really good enforcement mechanism.

CalTrans and CHP crews don't have time to check tread depth and service temp ratings on tires, which I think is a bigger issue or more easily fixable issue over 2WD and people driving faster than their vehicle can handle.

"Carry chains" law for Nov 1 to May 30 is totally neglected and is only enforceable when chain controls are active. The challenge is getting driver preparedness for when chain controls are not active ... there really isn't any effective enforcement mechanism and there is no effective education mechanism either for the people with bald tires who drive mountain passes like 3 times a year tops.

Still, I think California Vehicle Code requirements & fines for minimum M+S rating and minimum tread depth over mountain passes from Nov 1 to May 30 would be a great place to start. It would totally throw a bone to every retail chain like Goodyear, Firestone, Big O and America's Tire to advertise on "helping customers be compliant with CA tire laws for winter driving" - those guys have more money to make than Walmart selling $20 cables. Such a law would also make a starting point of discussion to educate people ... "Oh yeah, did you check your tread depth and temperature rating? Because the law totally requires you to have minimum "X" and "Y" labels on your tire if you are going to drive that road before May 30."

[TahoeJ]

Maybe it's not always feasible in terms of budget / vehicles and man hours, but one thing I've seen the CHP do is basically run pace cars out there which keeps everyone in check and below a certain speed when it's sketchy. I'd like to see more of that as it seems to work, at least based on my anecdotal observations.

[old goat]

driving in the snow 3 times a year on bald tires. Hell, half the people in truckee are driving in the winter on bald tires.

[mcski]

driving in the snow 3 times a year on bald tires. Hell, half the people in truckee are driving in the winter on bald tires.

I resemble that remark! I ran racing slicks on my jeep for 3 winters before I finally caved for new tires. It was refreshing after all that time to have some traction again.

[El Chupacabra]

check tread depth and service temp ratings on tires

Are you referring to tire temperature ratings (e.g. A, B, etc)? Those don't have anything to do with snow/ice traction. They're heat resistance ratings -- high-speed driving, not winter driving.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=48

[SchralphMacchio]

^ No, I'm just being full of shit. There is no required marking to indicate the tire compound's minimum service temperature to maintain whatever % of traction ... just the M+S marking and the snowflake marking.

I was just positing that if there was some kind of requirement to indicate if the tire compound and tread design were appropriate for use below 40F and on snow covered roads, and if there was also some kind of CVC requirement to have specific ratings and also have minimum tread depth and such a rating when driving on designated roads from Nov 1 to May 30, that would probably prevent a majority of issues except on really icy days or with complete jackass drivers. My complete utter bullshit hunch is that the majority of accidents is not people pushing the bounds but instead folks who literally don't know any better.

[bodywhomper]

/cough
Tech talk
/cough

[Westmeister]

You Corkys apparently have no sense of observation, let alone real information. Finished few years ago; Bay to Reno. Ongoing projects...Test surfaces etc...bridge work...etc...CHP bustin' you dummies who can't drive

[TahoeJ]

^^ Is observation the sixth sense or seventh?

[LightRanger]

Heh.

I got out of more than one ticket on 80 with a local ID and being friends with the kids of guys working patrol out of Gold Run. Useful. Radar detector now. Haven't been pulled over in years.

[mcski]

Heh.

I got out of more than one ticket on 80 with a local ID and being friends with the kids of guys working patrol out of Gold Run. Useful. Radar detector now. Haven't been pulled over in years.

I saw those fuks at gold run park 5 or 6 cruisers on the on ramp while another was stationed w a radar gun and sending them off to ticket. Really pathetic revenue grab.

[El Chupacabra]

http://www.valentine1.com/

I highly recommend using one.

[MTT]

The road has always been concrete in the mountains--I can't remember where the asphalt turned to concrete--well before Nyack for sure. That concrete lasted way longer than expected. The new stuff is already showing ruts in the right lane as well as cracks and breakdown at the joints between the slabs. No way it will last as long as the original. One thing they did differently this time is to apply a thin coat of asphalt over the concrete--supposedly that gets replaced frequently. Some of that wore away the first year and a lot more since but none has been resurfaced. It's gotten really bad east of Truckee--there's a sign warning of rough pavement. I've written the Sac Bee a couple times to look into the issue, since they did a bunch of stories on how CalTrans fucked up the Bay Bridge replacement, but they aren't interested. If anyone knows how to get some media attention have at it. But I don't think there's a road surface that's been invented that would help most folks who wreck in a storm. (I remember one storm where the road was so icy that stopped cars were sliding sideways on the banked turns. I dove past about 50 banged up cars in the right lane before I had to stop in the left while they cleared the road, and past a bunch more after it opened.)

I've been stuck a few times behind 2WD cars wrecked on old 40 when chain controls are up. They should just push those cars over the edge (like that old wrecked bus--I wonder when that happened and what the story is). The people who own those cars shouldn't be allowed to drive.

I heard, the asphalt was put down over the concrete because they fucked up the grading on the Concrete, and had drainage issues (Standing water in the road) So quick fix, put asphalt over the Cazzillon Dollar! Concrete highway project. It really comes down to modern day Government bribery for works projects. =
Paying the wrong people to do thing that matter.

[old goat]

I heard, the asphalt was put down over the concrete because they fucked up the grading on the Concrete, and had drainage issues (Standing water in the road) So quick fix, put asphalt over the Cazzillon Dollar! Concrete highway project. It really comes down to modern day Government bribery for works projects. =
Paying the wrong people to do thing that matter.

That explanation makes sense.

[LightRanger]

I saw those fuks at gold run park 5 or 6 cruisers on the on ramp while another was stationed w a radar gun and sending them off to ticket. Really pathetic revenue grab.

Just wait until you get clocked by the plane on 80WB between Applegate and Clipper Gap. That's always fun.

And, yeah, V1 or something else with good reviews. I think their patent on the directional indicators ran out recently?

[Ottime]

There is no really good solution because there is no really good enforcement mechanism.

CalTrans and CHP crews don't have time to check tread depth and service temp ratings on tires, which I think is a bigger issue or more easily fixable issue over 2WD and people driving faster than their vehicle can handle.

"Carry chains" law for Nov 1 to May 30 is totally neglected and is only enforceable when chain controls are active. The challenge is getting driver preparedness for when chain controls are not active ... there really isn't any effective enforcement mechanism and there is no effective education mechanism either for the people with bald tires who drive mountain passes like 3 times a year tops.

Still, I think California Vehicle Code requirements & fines for minimum M+S rating and minimum tread depth over mountain passes from Nov 1 to May 30 would be a great place to start. It would totally throw a bone to every retail chain like Goodyear, Firestone, Big O and America's Tire to advertise on "helping customers be compliant with CA tire laws for winter driving" - those guys have more money to make than Walmart selling $20 cables. Such a law would also make a starting point of discussion to educate people ... "Oh yeah, did you check your tread depth and temperature rating? Because the law totally requires you to have minimum "X" and "Y" labels on your tire if you are going to drive that road before May 30."

I thought you were thinking of moving out of California? Sound like you like the uber regulated police state.

How about we just fine the people who fuck up?

Seriously, I'm in the market to replace my AWD basically because I don't want to have to throw on chains every damn time if flurries. I know how to drive in the snow, and rarely needed chains on my RWD Tacoma when that was my main snow car. A decent thread, and drive in control. But instead, I'll be spending bank, cause the law man says I can't drive in the mountains w/o it.

This state already has too many laws.

/rant

And you are probably right anyway.

And you need good tires sir. You drive swiftly. I'm like a Sunday old man driver.

[bodywhomper]

But instead, I'll be spending bank, cause the law man says I can't drive in the mountains w/o it.

not to derail your rant, but spending bank is yer decision (and yer spouse's). your thread has plenty of other options. i know several peeps thatget after it and use chains. they're efficient and plan ahead a little bit.

[TahoeJ]

In December 2010 I was on the side of 80 at 6am putting on chains while it was -5 out, in the dark and it was windy as fuck. Took 20 minutes to get the feeling back in my fingers. Bought a Honda Pilot 2 weeks later. It was a good decision.

[TurxSki]

Heading up to Squaw for their Closing Weekend.
Wondering about digging out our Rock Ski's or sticking with our Daily Drivers.

Anyone have any insight as to how much "stuff" is showing through the snow in the open areas? Or care to offer advice?
Yeah I know - Tech Talk jong!