Fore! Who's playing golf, yo-

[jfost]

^Can you get anyone to take stills of your set-up, apex of backswing, contact position, and follow through?

I find stills give you a lot more feedback than video since you can really scrutinize your angles. The only thing I find video helps for is for tempo issues. Of course, that's a moot point if your app measures lines and angles.

if your video is HQ enough - you can frame-grab all you want...

[BackCountryNC]

^Can you get anyone to take stills of your set-up, apex of backswing, contact position, and follow through?

I find stills give you a lot more feedback than video since you can really scrutinize your angles. The only thing I find video helps for is for tempo issues. Of course, that's a moot point if your app measures lines and angles.

Stills? Never heard of anybody using stills. All you need is a decent camera that will shoot HD in slow motion. I take vid at 210 frames per second and nothing is missed through the swing. You can stop the vid at any position in the swing that you want. I guess you could use stills to get a general idea of a swing, but video is the only way to truly analyze the golf swing.

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-Exilim-E.../dp/B001HCTKZQ

[MotherFucker]

Of course you can take HQ video and grab stills at this point but not all of us have the capabilities to do so.

Stills are a perfect way to make sure you're at the right position when you need to be. Tell me how in the hell you analyze a golf swing at full frame rate speed. You can't. Everyone stops their video in their backswing to make sure they're in the right spot. No different than a still there. Nobody knows (and it's impossible to correct at that point) if they're in the wrong spot three quarters through their downswing and it's impossible to identlify with film anyways. Most flaws are caught in the backswing and it would be impossible to see what you're doing wrong without a screenshot (still) or slowing it down to a frame per second or less which would, in essence, be a slideshow of stills.

That's why even teaching pros, while they take video all day, use to identify (using the stills within the vid) the set-up, apex, contact, and follow through with the full swing being used to measure tempo (aka swing speed), clubhead speed, sidespin rates, etc.

[BackCountryNC]

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying? Are you using a video camera and stopping it to look at the swing or are you using a digital camera to take individual photographs?

BTW, what camera gives swing speed, ball speed and spin rate data? You need a launch monitor like TrackMan or Vector Pro to get those numbers.

[SuperGaper]

I think you are both onto the same thing, all the video tools/apps let you look frame by frame, mark up your angles and positions.

If you just have stored video, you can upload it to swingacademy.com and use their tools and solicit comments as well. Free registration.

[MotherFucker]

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying? Are you using a video camera and stopping it to look at the swing or are you using a digital camera to take individual photographs?

What is the difference between using a nine year old P&S for digital stills or the wallet draining DSLR (the one you linked) for a video you'll just be stopping for reference anyways? I have six stills of the most important sections of my swing and you have a 25 second video of your swing, six frames of which actually tell you anything.

I'm not saying video can't help, it just can't help with identifying swing faults that have to deal with anything but takeaway and tempo issues. I'm sure I'm wrong and someone will try to say otherwise, but, with my swing, I find that's usually the case.

This is coming from someone who's never had a lesson and is completely self taught as well so I may have no fucking clue what I'm talking about which I'll readily admit and fully expect someone to call me out on.

On the camera point though, I'm looking forward to seeing higher quality pictures of my swing. This fall I have a $800 budget for a wallet draining camera and I couldn't be moar stoked.

EDIT: To answer the question you added to your original post, no camera does that; my bad, I thought that was common sense. I added teaching pros to that sentence because it's usually them who have that technology. That, or it's easy to find a program online that will measue out angles for you like SG suggested.

[SuperGaper]

Using the swingplane app on my Iphone, with my driver, is 50 frames from takeaway to the end of the followthrough.
This revealed how my cocked left wrist at the top, led to an initial yank down to start my swing, followed by my hands fighting to get the club back on plane into impact.
You could not see the cause and effect with a still camera. Like you I have not had lessons, well one for grip and set up when I was 15. What it feels like and what your actually position and moves are can be very different.

[BackCountryNC]

Accuracy is the difference. If using a point and shoot is good enough for you, then that's fine. Certainly better than nothing. With a good high speed cam I can stop the vid in any position accurately. If I went to an instructor and he pulled out a point and shoot for swing analysis, I would have to leave.

It's like watching TV on a 20 year old tube style or a 1080 HD LCD. I'm not saying you can't do what you are doing, but there are much better ways of doing it. As long as it's helping you though, that's all that matters. Good luck!

[MotherFucker]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Something is definitely being lost in the translation. 50 frames of a video would still just be 50 stills. Just like I was saying before; it's just a slideshow of them.

SG, sounds like you said the cause was a cocked left wrist at apex which caused an off plane swing coming back through the ball. Not to be a dick, but if you can't see in a still that you're cocking your wrist and can't decipher how that's making you start your downswing off plane, then you would absolutely need someone to video you to point it out.

[MotherFucker]

I'd just like to say what a great thread. This could be one of the only threads on TGR where everyone isn't calling each other a cunt, dickbag, or douchenozz.

Golfing buddies can give each other shit or have a disagreement and still go golfing and not take it personally. I feel like that's the vibe throughout this thread. Love it.

[BackCountryNC]

Frame Per Second is not a bunch of stills. It's the rate of how much the video has been slowed down. Here's a vid of the great Charlie Wi at about 300 FPS. At that rate, using something like V1, you can stop the swing at any point to check any position much more accurately than you could with any point and shoot camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvF...eature=related

[SuperGaper]

MFer, I think my point and Backcountry NC's is the sequence of frames shows exactly what is happening. How do you snap a pic at each point of the swing accurately? I mean swingacademy is free, and the iphone app is 2.99 so I guess I am firmly in the middle.

And yes, seeing video of my swing after playing for 30 years was a bit of shock, but the fix was so simple it was crazy.

Not that it matters scoring wise, being the yippiest chipper and pitcher will wreck a scorecard in a hurry. Straight up choker.

Played Teton Reserve yesterday, shot mid 90's, literally if I could chip to within 20 feet of a pin I would be mid 80's. Where is Bob Rotella when I need him! Did rain the whole back nine, so that hurt scoring a bit, you have to take a cart, really tough to keep the grips dry.

[BackCountryNC]

I'd just like to say what a great thread. This could be one of the only threads on TGR where everyone isn't calling each other a cunt, dickbag, or douchenozz.

Golfing buddies can give each other shit or have a disagreement and still go golfing and not take it personally. I feel like that's the vibe throughout this thread. Love it.

Totally agree with that you cock sucker!!

[guroo270]

MFer, I think my point and Backcountry NC's is the sequence of frames shows exactly what is happening. How do you snap a pic at each point of the swing accurately? I mean swingacademy is free, and the iphone app is 2.99 so I guess I am firmly in the middle.

And yes, seeing video of my swing after playing for 30 years was a bit of shock, but the fix was so simple it was crazy.

Not that it matters scoring wise, being the yippiest chipper and pitcher will wreck a scorecard in a hurry. Straight up choker.

Played Teton Reserve yesterday, shot mid 90's, literally if I could chip to within 20 feet of a pin I would be mid 80's. Where is Bob Rotella when I need him! Did rain the whole back nine, so that hurt scoring a bit, you have to take a cart, really tough to keep the grips dry.

Huh, I swear I put in a pic of what I was talking about



You would not BELIEVE how amazing these are. If it's not pouring, put them on, dip your hands in water, go play.

[lionelhutz]

Wanna add some wedges...who's got a 64 degree wedge? Do you hit it often? I'm wondering if I want a 60 or 64. (Both is also an option).

[montanaskier]

played 9 at Vail on Sunday. I hit the ball GREAT off the tee...about 310 and straight on virtually every drive. Chipping was awful and some wet sand in a bunker on a par 3 was my undoing. On #9 the drive was 312, pw to the green (should have hit the 54* wedge) was past the hole on the top shelf about 35 feet away. 1st putt raced down the slope past the hole by 35 feet. Made the 35 foot par save coming back.

[4matic]

wet sand in a bunker on a par 3 was my undoing.

Play wet sand like a buried ball.

[skiballs]

Play wet sand like a buried ball.

This is bad advice .
Wet sand is easier to play out of than soft dry sand .
Don't open the club face as much , less bounce and swing a little easier .

[guroo270]

This is bad advice .
Wet sand is easier to play out of than soft dry sand .
Don't open the club face as much , less bounce and swing a little easier .

It's not his first time. You have to find the "U" in the small of the back or some shit first.

[MotherFucker]

It's not his first time. You have to find the "U" in the small of the back or some shit first.

Maybe I'm just high, but that made me lol.

I have no clue what I'm saying but I usually try to pick the ball clean with an easier swing through wet sand. If it's ridic dense and there's hardly a lip, I'll chip it like I'm on the fairway.

[4matic]

This is bad advice .
Wet sand is easier to play out of than soft dry sand .
Don't open the club face as much , less bounce and swing a little easier .

Depends how wet. Raked or not raked? Borderline mud vs wet sand? I was a member at a course where all the traps were wet all the time due to drainage issues. I studied the shot and stand by my statement.

For example:

"If you have a slightly buried lie, hard sand, very little sand or wet sand, you must use the leading edge. If the ball is really buried, you need to close the clubface to allow the toe of the club to dig deeper into the sand.

[4matic]

It's not his first time. You have to find the "U" in the small of the back or some shit first.

One thing for sure is you have never done any serious weight training to understand proper athletic posture.

[guroo270]

I forgot serious weight training and the golf swing were related. Thanks for setting me straight. Next you'll be recommending Pilsner Urquell That must be a big upgrade from your Michelob Ultra after your power lifting sessions. (He's here so I don't have to suffer your roid rage)

[4matic]

I forgot serious weight training and the golf swing were related. Thanks for setting me straight.

You're welcome because they are. Proper weight training equals better balance and posture.

"Tiger Woods trains with weight machines, free weights, dumbbells and medicine balls. However, what Woods does differently from a typical weight lifter is that he tries to perform various exercises in movements and positions that mimic the golf swing. He works on his golf posture and grip strength by lifting dumbbells. Since the golf swing is a very dynamic movement, I suspect that most of Woods’ exercises are done that way and not just sitting doing isolation exercise for individual muscles. Keith Kleven did not disclose how much weight Woods is doing, but rumor said that Woods was bench pressing about 300 pounds (about 136 kilogram)."

[guroo270]

Yes, on the pro stage, SOME pros lift in very specific ways to build certain muscles. It's certainly not necessary. For me in particular, when I was in high school I went from 5'7" 130 to 165, same height, and it destroyed my timing. I was lifting properly, but one day my legs would be fatigued, my upper body would be stronger, or vice versa. Just proper weight training doesn't always mean you'll be better at golf. Ask Angel Cabrera, Miguel Angel Jiminez, John Daly, Tom Watson, Tom Kite, Bubba Watson, Ernie Els, Jim Furyk, Fred Couples, Vijayjay Singh... Shall I go on?