Legal Mags - Small Claims Court Q:

[Tri-Ungulate]

So here's my situation: I paid for some sports equipment last winter, but didn't pick the stuff up because I didn't need it right away. Plus, I didn't have a place to put it at the time.

I come back to the store a few months later and am told they are out of stock, and that the guy who builds the equipment is out of town, could I come back later - sure, no big deal, no rush.

I come back last week and the guy tells me he's out of business - the IRS has seized his property for back taxes, and all his inventory is now in the hands of a liquidator.

The total amount of the goods is $625, so definitely small claims.

1) Do I sue the guy? I have every reason to believe he's flat broke - he's a senior citizen fella with some age-related memory problems (hence the back taxes fiasco and forgetting about my order). He generally seems like a nice guy. I don't really want to rake this poor old dude over the coals.

2) Can I get redress from the liquidator (either a cash refund or the equipment itself, which can either still be built or is still in the warehouse, but now owned by the liquidator)?

3) ...or am I SOL?

If I do have a case, I don't really think I need to get a lawyer involved since it's small claims, but what kind of resources should I look into? I checked out the UT state Small Claims website, which gives the forms and the generalities, but not any real particulars.

Thanks for any guidance.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Congratulations, you're now a creditor like the government, probably his landlord, and probably his trade suppliers. Go to the back of the line and hope for pennies on the dollar.

Just a guess.

[Rontele]

My first suggestion was to be weigh the cost of getting an attorney vs. the amount that could be recovered, but since you are doing this on your own, forget about that.

Since you have already paid for the equipment, you have a right to it, that is, unless there is a statute in Utah regarding abandoment of property (since you didn't pick it up).

Your best bet is to contact the liquidator. You paid for the equipement, but you didn't pick it up. If there is no applicable abandonment statute, they just can't go ahead and sell your property. If they do, you have a case against them for conversion. I think your best bet is to first write a strongly worded letter to both the shop owner and the liquidator and make an attempt to get your equipment. Allude to filing a proceeding in small claims court. See where that takes you before filing a claim (also check the statute of limitations on any conversion cause of action).

SSD, I think you are right, but this doesn't seem like a bankruptcy proceeding. The liquidator is holding the property to pay off back taxes. I am not quite sure how this works, but I am pretty sure that Tri-U has secured interest in the property that he already paid for. He may end up being a creditor of some sort and will have to wait in line to get his pennies on the dollar, but he may also be able to just go and pick up the property he has already paid for.

[Steven S. Dallas]

I think you're right on all counts, actually.

[Rontele]

I think you're right on all counts, actually.

I am also sure that Tri-U shouldn't take advice from the most junior of all TGR lawyers.

[MakersTeleMark]

If you have every reason to believe he is flat broke, then don't throw good money after bad. See if you can track down the liquidator and impress upon them that you are the rightful title holder to the goods. Spend your energy there, and use the old man for info.

[Steven S. Dallas]

I am also sure that Tri-U shouldn't take advice from the most junior of all TGR lawyers.

Well, you get what you pay for.

Hopefully.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Thanks so far. Very good helpful info, as even the most junior TGR lawyer is light years ahead of me re: torts.

I looked into conversion on Wikipedia and think it makes sense to this legal JONG and seems to apply to this case re: the liquidator. I have their info from a Business Entity Search so can get in touch with them easily.

Seems the Utah statute of limitations for "Open account for goods, wares, merchandise, and services rendered or for the price of any article charged on a store account: 4 years" so I'm definitely within that one, with plenty of time to spare.

I sure would like to get my Wrought Iron Spread-Eagle Rack, Gimp Cage, Chain-Link Fuck-Swing and LS9000 with Forehead Strap now that I have a special room for them all. Oh, and the Stocks, too.

Or get my $625 back.

[Rontele]

Thanks so far. Very good helpful info, as even the most junior TGR lawyer is light years ahead of me re: torts.

I looked into conversion on Wikipedia and think it makes sense to this legal JONG and seems to apply to this case re: the liquidator. I have their info from a Business Entity Search so can get in touch with them easily.

Seems the Utah statute of limitations for "Open account for goods, wares, merchandise, and services rendered or for the price of any article charged on a store account: 4 years" so I'm definitely within that one, with plenty of time to spare.

I sure would like to get my Wrought Iron Spread-Eagle Rack, Gimp Cage, Chain-Link Fuck-Swing and LS9000 with Forehead Strap now that I have a special room for them all. Oh, and the Stocks, too.

Or get my $625 back.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Try and contact the liquidator immediately prior to the tax sale. You will likely have better results with the inventory on hand versus the cash they intend to turn over to the IRS.

[yogachik]

I had a similar problem once a few years ago, but it involved a gift certificate. When I went to use it, found the store had been closed. Why they sold a gift certificate when they knew that was their last month is beyond me. I called all numbers I could get ahold of, and was told to, basically, get in line. The GC was for around $200.

[Rontele]

I had a similar problem once a few years ago, but it involved a gift certificate. When I went to use it, found the store had been closed. Why they sold a gift certificate when they knew that was their last month is beyond me. I called all numbers I could get ahold of, and was told to, basically, get in line. The GC was for around $200.

That was likely a bankruptcy proceeding versus a tax sale foreclosure.

[pappag]

If you paid with AMEX, this would be resolved with a 2-minute phone call.

[Bart T]

Tri-U, you've got some good advice so far, but I think your reading of the 4 year SOL is probably wrong. That would apply to creditors. I think your situation is more akin to a bailment (leaving stuff with somebody for safekeeping). If I remember this stuff right (and this is a situation where a junior lawyer is good, because they learned this stuff recently, as opposed to somebody who learned it a long time ago and forgot most of it), bailed property is not part of the bankrupt estate. But there may be a very short timeframe for making your claim. good luck.

[Bart T]

If you paid with AMEX, this would be resolved with a 2-minute phone call.

i love amex, but in this case probably not true. once you pay the amex bill with the charge on it, you lose most of your leverage. might still get some love from them, but definitely more than a 2 minute drill.

[Danno]

I'm not sure I understand the facts. Is the store out of business? Or did you buy this from a store, who then gets a guy to make the stuff, and that guy is now broke? If that is the case, and the store took your money but didn't deliver the goods, I think you are best served by going after them.

[Rontele]

I'm not sure I understand the facts. Is the store out of business? Or did you buy this from a store, who then gets a guy to make the stuff, and that guy is now broke? If that is the case, and the store took your money but didn't deliver the goods, I think you are best served by going after them.

The way I understand it is that he paid for the goods, the good were made and held by the store awaiting his pick-up. When he went to pick up the goods, the store had closed for tax, not bankruptcy reasons, and the IRS turned over the inventory for a liquidation sale.

[pappag]

i love amex, but in this case probably not true. once you pay the amex bill with the charge on it, you lose most of your leverage. might still get some love from them, but definitely more than a 2 minute drill.

The 2-minute bit was more of a hyperbole.

And nearly all of my disputes with them have been well after I paid the bill, with some instances occurring past 90 days. I know the drill all too familiar, which makes me quite the asshole.

[Danno]

The way I understand it is that he paid for the goods, the good were made and held by the store awaiting his pick-up. When he went to pick up the goods, the store had closed for tax, not bankruptcy reasons, and the IRS turned over the inventory for a liquidation sale.

Three cheers for the way you understand it. And maybe you are right. But that has no bearing on what the facts actually are; I'm no closer to being sure of what they are than before.

[El Chupacabra]

Tri-U -- do you have a receipt of some kind (something showing you paid --in full -- and the shop was just holding your property for you)?

If not, you're probably hosed, get in line.

If yes, then the property in the possession of the liquidator is your property, not shop property. Get in touch with the liquidator and explain the situation. Hopefully this resolves it.

[MakersTeleMark]

Tri-U, conversion requires intent (liquidator wouldn't know it was sold), and open account doesn't even apply here. Just call the liquidator, explain the situation, see what happens, then post an update. Your biggest problem right now is time.