Stop with the Anti-Bush nonsense already. He's one of the best, EVER.

[joshbu]

Civics 101.

The President of the United States does NOT have the authority to declare war, though he serves as Commander and Chief. That authority is granted only to Congress.

In many cases actions and activities that have nothing to do a with a President's actual policy (which is to say, the policy he submits to Congress via allies in the House or Senate, becuase again, the President can't make bills only sign them into law,) are attributed to that President.

For example, a fair amount of the economic recovery that Clinton took credit for actually started in George Bush's tenure.

Likewise, a lot of the forgien policy victories that have happened recently have nothing to do with GWB, or his leadership. You'll remember of course that a fair bit of GWB's campaign in 2000 was that we were spending too much time on foriegn policy and not enough on "family values."

It's been the hard work of other civil servants (congressmen, intelligence officers, etc...) that made made the majority of the good things (and the bad) happen. Credit where credit is due.

Now, you're probably right that GWB will win again. Then again, if Gore, who is just about as uninspiring as Kerry, could run him to 50/50, GWB might need the Supreme Court's help on this one too...

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by CantDog

Wow, where do I start?
[B]But blurred, is invading a country that sponsored terrorists stopping terrorism? It sure doesnt seem like it. Was Germany going to invade the US? Most certainly.

Do I think invading Afghanistan , destroying the Taliban is stopping terrorism? C'mon CantDog, get real.

But staying out of WWII was impossible. We were already deeply involved before we declared war on the axis. Middle eastern oil was controlled by axis powers, and the allies relied on the United States for their oil supplies to fuel their armies. By the time we entered the war in 1941 Germany had control over much of the coal deposits in europe, if the US wanted the Germans defeated we had to enter. And it wasnt like this was the first time the Germans had tried to take over europe...

You're saying WWII was about OIL????? OMG dude. Libs brainwashing on you was worse than I thought...

And you cant base FDR's presidency solely on his leading the United States into World War II. He led the united states out of the Depression, and brought back faith in ourselves and our country, and not just faith in our financial system. He was one of the greatest americans ever to live.

War brought us out of the depression, not FDR.

My grandparents still have a picture of FDR on their wall. Before that, the picture belonged to their parents, and hung in their living room from the mid 30s until they passed away.

Ask them how much they liked Clinton and the whole Monica Lewinski debacle, and how he disrespected the same room FDR commanded from...

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Slurred Elevens
I'm a pussy that posts under an alias.

I guess if I was an idiot, minus a spine, I'd need to use an alias too. Do you wear a bag over your head when meeting people in the bars too? Loser.

[Slurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
I guess since I am an idiot, minus a spine, I should stop talking so much dum shit shouldn't I? But I can't stop since this is the only social interaction I have in my pathetic excuse of a life

exactly

[CantDog]

WWII wasnt about oil, but oil, and who possessed it played a huge role in the outcome of the war.

This happens to be a favorite subject of mine, and I guess it was last year I wrote a paper about the social,economic, and environmental effects of the internal combustion engine. Heres what I had to say about oil's role in WWII.:

Meanwhile in Europe, the chance of avoiding another war looked bleak. To prepare again for war, England consolidated the entire British petroleum and oil industry into one large government run company called Pool Oil. This allowed the government to control prices of petroleum, as well as decide where oil should be distributed. When war finally began in Europe, Britain was at least partially prepared. With the quick fall of Poland and the capture of Paris by German soldiers, it appeared Britain would bear the task of supplying oil to Allied troops, unless Winston Churchill could involve the Americans and their seemingly endless flow of cheap crude oil.
At the beginning of World War II, Hitler had large oil supplies due to his conquest of reserves in France and his pre-war efforts at creating a petroleum dependent Germany. When Hitler rose to power, Germany still received ninety percent of its power from coal. Hitler’s agenda as chancellor was to create vast autobahns, as well as start a national car company, Volkswagen. This push for petroleum-based energy sufficiently created a large enough infrastructure to sustain Germany’s war efforts until the final years of battle. Hitler’s push for petroleum also included the creation of synthetic fuels, since Germany possesses no oil fields. German chemists searched for a way to create oil from coal -and succeeded. The process, called hydrogenation, actually was in use even before World War I but it was extremely cost prohibitive. Hitler was successfully able to regenerate the synthetic fuels industry, which would provide the bulk of Germany’s oil. Also on Hitler’s war agenda were plans to invade Russia for the purpose of securing oil fields, not to destroy Moscow and topple the communist regime. It was also essential to his war campaign that oil in the Donet Basin, located in Russia, be secured. All of these objectives failed and greatly debilitated the German war effort. In the desire for energy, “the Germans ran short of oil in their conquest of oil.” The German invasion of North Africa led by Rommel also failed in part due to fuel shortages. By the early 1940s, Germany had secured nowhere near enough oil to continue their fast pace of controlling Europe, and in 1943 resorted to using synthetic fuels.
Japan was in a similar situation as Germany, having to deal with acquiring significant oil reserves to mount a war effort. By the late 1930s, Japan began collecting vast amounts of high-octane gasoline used in airplanes. This sudden build up startled the United States, and in 1940 America placed an embargo banning the sale of eighty-seven or higher octane gasoline to Japan. This did little to disrupt the Japanese, who simply redesigned airplane engines to run on gasoline under eighty-seven octane, or created additives to boost octane levels artificially. Although the signs were clear that Japan was preparing for war, Roosevelt continued to delay a complete oil embargo against Japan primarily because he did not want to anger Japan into hastening their preparations and because the American oil industry received significant revenues from its Far East sales. Ultimately, Roosevelt was forced to acknowledge the signs of war preparation and on May 27, 1941, declared a complete oil embargo on Japan and freeze all Japanese funds in the United States. In less than seven months America would declare war on Japan.
Japan’s motives for attacking Pearl Harbor went beyond simply destroying the American Navy a demonstration of its increased power in the Pacific Ocean. With Japan’s earlier attacks on China, it was anxious to become a world superpower, and a global player needs petroleum. Depending on oil from America was not an option, and the closest oil reserves, those in the Dutch East Indies, were controlled by the United States. By bombing Pearl Harbor in 1941, the Japanese were keeping shipping lines open between the Dutch East Indies and Japan, hopefully long enough to secure sufficient oil to mount a successful war effort.

[CantDog]

Inside America the oil issue was an increasingly more complicated issue. At about the time Britain was asking for more and more oil to supply its troops, the Justice Department was mounting its own attack on large oil companies for violation of anti-trust laws. With much persuading from President Roosevelt, the Justice Department dropped its case against the oil industry. In Roosevelt’s words, it was time to replace “Old Dr. New Deal” with “Dr. Win-the-War.” Also, as Britain had demonstrated with Pool Oil, it was much easier to control oil when it resides in the hands of one company instead of several smaller suppliers.
As the war wore on in Europe and United States continued to ship oil across the Atlantic, German U-boats began a campaign to cut Allied fuel supplies by destroying American tankers. The loss of tonnage and oil at sea became so bad that in July 1941, Prime Minister Churchill informed President Wilson that only five weeks of automotive fuel and two months reserve for the Royal Navy existed. In response to the loss of oil at sea, assistant Oil Czar, Ralph Davies, initiated the Voluntary Conservation Campaign. The American public refused to give up its gasoline, and within a few months the program was stopped. It was apparent that in America there was a stubborn refusal to give up oil and petroleum products, for giving up oil would be abandoning the new American culture, the car culture. After voluntary conservation failed, the federal government stepped in and cut gasoline delivery by fifteen percent. This plan, initiated by Oil Czar Harold Ickes, angered the American oil industry. Soon enough, oil industry lobbyists in Washington put pressure on Congress, blaming the government and Ickes for creating a “shortage of surplus”. In reality, very few people in Washington or the oil industry knew how dire the situation was in Europe. U-boats were destroying tankers everyday, and the Allies in Europe were continually relying on their last reserves. Even American ships that left Texas, rounded Florida, and traveled up the eastern seaboard were being attacked by German U-boats. Sometimes it was possible to see the burning of tankers form the American coast. Obviously, something had to be done to increase the amount of oil that reached the eastern coast of the United States and successfully reached Europe. America’s answer to the problem was the creation of the Big Itch and Little Itch, two oil pipelines from Texas to the East Coast. This allowed oil to reach Atlantic ports quicker and with less loss of tankers. For the remainder of the war, half of America’s oil exports would travel by pipeline.
1942 was a bitter year in the Atlantic. The United States lost one quarter of its tonnage, and Germany changed its codes and broke the ciphers that governed the transport of American oil. To reduce loss of ships further and to save energy, the government asked that unnecessary lights on the East Coast be turned off so German U-boats would not as easily see the tankers at night. As with the voluntary oil conservation campaign earlier, Americans were reluctant to give up their lights, and the plan was eventually curb sided.
Luckily, by March 1943, things began to fall into America’s favor. Radar technology had improved significantly, attack ships accompanied tankers across the Atlantic, and the tankers received long-range aircraft support. Perhaps even more importantly, the United States broke the U-boat codes. The North Atlantic campaign looked so bleak for Germany that on May 24, 1943, German submarine Captain Doenitz called off the campaign. For the remainder of the war, getting oil from America to Europe was no longer a problem.
For America to save fuel, gasoline had to be rationed. However, the American people and oil industry were unlikely to cut oil usage and distribution voluntarily and would fight hard if government sanctions were put in place to regulate petroleum usage. In the spring of 1942, the federal government placed a ban on gas for auto racing, which was followed by gas rationing on the east coast in May. Finally, the federal government designed a way to ration fuel. Since ninety percent of natural rubber was cut off to the United States due to the war in the Pacific, Washington called for rationing, “in the name of rubber, gasoline could be rationed” . Washington tried again in 1943 to curb driving further by restricting nonessential driving. The idea of stopping a family from conducting their Sunday afternoon drive was ludicrous to many Americans, and the term nonessential driving was so vague that it was dropped all together.
Washington initiated one last plan to ration fuel, which was finally accepted by the American people. The government issued five grades of rationing depending on occupation. Doctors and other professions that required automobiles were given an “X”, while blue collar workers received an “A”. Almost immediately a black market for letters emerged. Before the war, the type of automobile often determined social status; now that status was reduced to a simple letter.
Fuel distribution on the front line was a much more difficult task to tackle than sending fuel across the Atlantic. To simplify distribution, “jerry cans” were created -simple five-gallon containers with a built in funnel so the fuel would not become contaminated. These cans were evenly spaced along highways so a platoon could simply stop and refuel their vehicles. Perhaps the most infamous incident of fuel shortage during World War II occurred after D-Day. After General Patton had broken through the German line, he began to quickly push the Germans back towards Berlin. Eventually fuel ran so low that Patton instructed his troops to drive until the cars would not start, and then begin walking. General Montgomery faced a similar situation while fighting to break through the Ruhr. Commander Eisenhower was faced with deciding which front to refuel first. Patton as closer to Berlin, but his army had no backup and was vulnerable if German troops were able to mount a counterattack. Eisenhower chose not to risk refueling Patton first, and the supplies went to General Montgomery. When fuel did reach Patton, the Germans had regrouped. Eisenhower’s decision led to nine months of bloody battle as the Germans fought to defend what was left of Germany. Also the prolonged war allowed the Russians to take Berlin first, greatly upsetting Patton who dreamed of driving into Berlin himself and taking the city. Ironically, later in 1945, the vehicle that stopped Patton’s triumphant entrance into Berlin killed him when he suffered fatal injuries in an automobile accident. George Patton was not the only soldier to fall at the mercy of the internal combustion engine. As the Russians and Americans neared Berlin, Hitler ordered his soldiers to douse him in gasoline and set him afire once he committed suicide. Hitler’s obsession with petroleum and oil also followed him to his grave. World War II established the necessity of oil reserves to become a worldwide superpower. After the war, Stalin called World War II a “war of engines and octanes” .

So dont tell me oil wasnt a major role in WWII. And dont accuse me of being brainwashed by liberals, I form my own opinions after looking at both sides of the story. If you want to debate FDR and Bush with me thats cool, but lets not go down the name calling/liberal bashing/brainwashed road, you dont know me.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Slurred Elevens
I should stop talking so much dum shit shouldn't I?

You're definitely "dum" if you can't spell "dumb", fucking moron.

Are you related to DINMS?

[glademaster]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
[B]Do I think invading Afghanistan , destroying the Taliban is stopping terrorism? C'mon CantDog, get real.

Speaking of someone who needs to get real. Learn your Middle East geography before you go spouting the shit you usually do Blurred. Invading Afghanistan to destroy the taliban and al queada(both failed) is far, far different from Iraq. We should have invaded Afghanistan, Iraq however, was a grudge match, plain and simple. Daddy fucked it up and now Sonny Boy wants to go fix it, well, truh be told, he fucked it up even more. We are less safe now with Saddam out of power than with him in power. Yes, he may have paid Palestinian suicide bombers, but he kept all the serious threats from loony terrorists in Iraq well under control. We fucked up, and now we're paying for it, get Bush out of office and get America out of Iraq.

-Ben

[CantDog]

Blurred, for once can you try and stay on topic and ignore the fucking trolls? Every damn thread you post becomes a shit throwing fight between you, and the various other blurreds and strykers. For once lets try and keep this one on topic.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by CantDog
Blurred, for once can you try and stay on topic and ignore the fucking trolls? Every damn thread you post becomes a shit throwing fight between you, and the various other blurreds and strykers. For once lets try and keep this one on topic.

Guess you'll have to refrain from posting about how WWII was about oil then.

[CantDog]

shit. we'll its still a lot more relative to you being a spineless pussy.

edit: Did that whole being spineless thing come about from your drinking the water in butte?

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by CantDog


edit: Did that whole being spineless thing come about from your drinking the water in butte?

Yes, like you probably figured out, EVERYONE from/living/born in Butte is a hardcore motherfucker.

[Ted Stryker']

Originally posted by CantDog
Blurred, for once can you try and stay on topic and ignore the fucking trolls? Every damn thread you post becomes a shit throwing fight between you, and the various other blurreds and strykers. For once lets try and keep this one on topic.

Don't ya get it son? He IS the troll here. Why would the thread have this title if not? This guy lives under a bridge and eats his own feces. Dumb little motherfuckers like him should be beneath you
POlitical talk with Brettdog is not worth anyone's time.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Ted Stryker' aka Brett aka HUGEAIRDOG aka Duphphy

[Ted Stryker']

I think Duph is too busy gawking at bozos at Abasin to post. You teein' up any more 80 footers this weekend, hardcore?

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Ted Stryker'
I think Duph is too busy gawking at bozos at Abasin to post. You teein' up any more 80 footers this weekend, hardcore?

Actually, Splat gave me your address, and I coming to pay you a visit.

[Ted Stryker']

No, I coming pay you visit, you no visit me!! Brett very literate, know good world stuff. But maybe Duff not like rear-end action like Brett do.

for those homo-weekends you like, you need to stay at ma and pa's up in Butte for that.

[shmerham]

Has there ever been a political discussion in the history of the world that didn't turn into a name calling match?

To think that any war since the beginning of the 1900's wasn't about oil is naive. To think that oil was the sole or even predominant issue (read "no blood for oil") is also naive.

Our political system has far too many checks and balances for someone to be as good or as bad as many make them out to be.

It's unfortunate that the best reason for invading Iraq couldn't be conveyed to the public, whether it's because the public is too stupid, or the government, or both. Anywho, as simplistic and undiplomatic as it is, a statement had to be made. Iraq was walking all over the U.N. and the U.S. We couldn't be made to look like a bunch of push-overs. We had to show the world we mean business. Afghanistan wasn't enough. That was expected. Will the terrorists stop because we made good on our ultimatum. Hell no. Hopefully though, supporters of terrorism (governments in particular) will learn that it's not acceptable to do so, and that if the U.S. says to cut the shit, you better do so. It's terribly barbaric to think this way; but the truth is that this is the only way to accomplish anything sometimes.

[Blurred Elevens]

Originally posted by Ted Stryker'
No, I coming pay you visit, you no visit me!! Brett very literate, know good world stuff. But maybe Duff not like rear-end action like Brett do.

for those homo-weekends you like, you need to stay at ma and pa's up in Butte for that.

I'm going to find you one day Teddy. I know people that know you. They know where you live. I'll see you when I see you, but I definitely will see you. Will I remember all the aliases, or you as a online dumbfuck that doesn't require the energy........Maybe I'll just slander you like the low-life you are in real life, in front of several others....ahhh, yes-that sounds good.

[Ted Stryker']

Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
I'm going to find you one day Teddy. I know people that know you. They know where you live.

I thought you already knew Duff's address, you stupid sack of shit lying Butte posing hick lowlife. You have the IQ of a fucking rock.

[Ted $tryker]

Originally posted by Ted Stryker'
I thought you already knew Duff's address, you stupid sack of shit lying Butte posing hick lowlife. You have the IQ of a fucking rock.

Wow, way to get at him with poise and articulation champ. You sure proved your point!

[Ted Stryker']

losing count, is this Brett's third stryker alias?

[Ted $tryker]

Originally posted by Ted Stryker'
losing count, is this Brett's third stryker alias?

Including yours, fourth, MORON!

[Ted Stryker']

Good one, MORON! you spell pretty good for a boy from Butte, especially one as hung up on cock as you.

[Ted $tryker]

Originally posted by Ted Stryker'
Good one, MORON! you spell pretty good for a boy from Butte, especially one as hung up on cock as you.

Brett will really be upset when he reads this. Good work DINMS!