Smarter to Buy the Same Beacon as a Spare?

[JoeStrummer]

I like my Barryvox Optio quite a bit and have never had an issue picking up Trackers, Pieps, Ortovox signals, etc. I am going to buy another beacon for my wife, to use as a spare for visitors, etc. Am I better off buying another Barryvox or does it make any difference? I was hoping to find someone upgrading to a Pulse or an S1 and selling their beacon but if it makes more sense I'd just pop for another Barryvox.

[Hacksaw]

I would think it would be better to buy your wife a transceiver that she feels comfortable using (i.e., you want her to feel comfortable becasue she is well practiced with using a transceiver so she'll be fast with it in finding you.....).

But, if you looking for a transceiver that is easy and simple to use by anyone (i.e., your lending this to someone with out much transceiver training, etc.....). If that's the case I'd buy either a Ortovox S1 or D3. The S1 is just about the simplist transceiver out there to use. You can teach someone the basic use of it in less then 10-15 minutes.

BUT......

This newbie person shouldn still do several (5-6 or more) transceiver search practices before you go out into the fied. Practice builds skills. Also, tell them how to dig out a buried avalanche victim.

Cheers,
Halsted

[GoldenBear]

I agree with Hacksaw. Get her one she knows and is comfortable using.

The other side of this is that you are very comfortable using the Barryvox so it will be easy for you to explain it to other people. Granted this does NOT mean they should go without practicing.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE is key. The tracker is super easy to use as well as the S1 and D3. It may save you a bit of money as well.

[JoeStrummer]

Thanks. She's not a newbie, guess I wasn't clear. We are just always renting her a beacon or borrowing one when touring so she's kind of used to a few different kinds. We do a few practices before the trip and then around the huts - Euros look at us funny!

I was thinking more about the rubric that a Barryvox would lock on a Barryvox more quickly, a Tracker will find a Tracker faster, etc. Maybe that's all BS.

Good point about which beacon I am more comfortable with. I would like to pretend that all my backcountry mates have been through Avy Class Level 564 but on occasions I do partner up with relative newbies.

Another good point about the D3. That seems to be one of the more popular rentals in the shops in the Alps. If I got the S1 I might have to appropriate it for myself!

Thanks!

[Glisse Bozeman]

I have done about 100 practice searches over the years with many different brands of transceivers and have never noticed a difference in my ability to pick up a signal from an identical transceiver vs.. a different brand of transceiver. If the transceiver is a few years old the frequency can drift and then affect the ability to transmit a signal, but with new becons it shouldn't be a problem.

[Hugh Jardon]

But, if you looking for a transceiver that is easy and simple to use by anyone (i.e., your lending this to someone with out much transceiver training, etc.....). If that's the case I'd buy either a Ortovox S1 or D3. The S1 is just about the simplist transceiver out there to use. You can teach someone the basic use of it in less then 10-15 minutes.

Not my experience at all, I played with the S1 last week! You should know since you are an avalanche educator that the Tracker is the simplest beacon to use hands down, especially for non-professionals. And you can get 2 for the price of an S1.

Good to see there are some Clash fans on this site Joe Strummer, or is that really you?

[JoeStrummer]

I think multiple-burial functionality is more for the marketing to avy pros than the reality 99% of us will find 99% of the time. Beacons should be dead-simple to use and find single burials most ricky-tick.

Having said that, I'm glad the manufacturers are advancing the tecnology no matter the end reason!

I picked up a very lightly used Tracker to solve my initial thread dilemma.

[Hacksaw]

Not my experience at all, I played with the S1 last week! You should know since you are an avalanche educator that the Tracker is the simplest beacon to use hands down, especially for non-professionals. And you can get 2 for the price of an S1.

I totally disagree with you. The S1 is a lot easier to use then the Tracker, both in multiple searchs and in deep burial pinpointing. Both of these are the most difficult searchs to do with a transceiver. The S1 does both types of searchs without a lot of effort. As far as cost, well you have to pay more for the best. That seems to be true about a lot of things in life.

Sure BCA says that multiple burials don't happen much. Depends upon who's numbers you look at I guess.

But, I would rather have in my hands a transceiver that can handle multiple burials in a fast and effective manner. The S1 is such a transceiver. I simply believe in the old saying, "it's best to train for the worst and hope for the best." If you train for multiple burials you'll find single burial search a hell of a lot easier.

Cheers,
Halsted

[cj001f]

Sure BCA says that multiple burials don't happen much. Depends upon who's numbers you look at I guess.

What number do you have saying it's common?


As with any man/machine interface their is no universal best.

[Hugh Jardon]

I totally disagree with you. The S1 is a lot easier to use then the Tracker, both in multiple searchs and in deep burial pinpointing... But, I would rather have in my hands a transceiver that can handle multiple burials in a fast and effective manner. The S1 is such a transceiver. I simply believe in the old saying, "it's best to train for the worst and hope for the best." If you train for multiple burials you'll find single burial search a hell of a lot easier.

Cheers,
Halsted

How can the S1 be the best transceiver when it's hardly even been available to the public yet? I don't get it. And I didn't think it was fast when it was telling me to "stop" in a very easy search. But that was just my experience.

Here are my questions: since the S1 can see 3 beacons at once, what do you do if there are more? And if you are all alone searching, how do you save more than 1 person? I think doing a real multiple burial search comes down to a hell of a lot more factors than what kind of beacon you have!

[GoldenBear]

Let's just throw another complicated issue into the mix. The Barryvox Pulse can locate several buried beacons and then, if they have the comparable beacon, can tell you vital statistics. The issue here is that if a person sees the vitals on a beacon farther away and skips over the closet beacon how is it justified. It creates an unnecessary, emotional decision. In my opinion, always go to the closet beacon.

[Hacksaw]

How can the S1 be the best transceiver when it's hardly even been available to the public yet? I don't get it. And I didn't think it was fast when it was telling me to "stop" in a very easy search. But that was just my experience.

Here are my questions: since the S1 can see 3 beacons at once, what do you do if there are more? And if you are all alone searching, how do you save more than 1 person? I think doing a real multiple burial search comes down to a hell of a lot more factors than what kind of beacon you have!

I have had an S1 since March of last season (2007). The S1 has been available to the public since then. True they came in late in the season.

I have found that when the little STOP hand icon comes up your eaither out at the maximum edge of the transceivers reception and it's bearly receiving a transmitted signal or you have multiple signals close by and really overlapping. The transceiver is taking a few seconds locking on to the strongest signal. But, if you where standing in the same spot with a Tracker the indicator arrows would be bouncing all over the place. Bassicly, each transceiver is just trying to figure out what to do.

What do you do with an S1 if you have more then three signals? You can go into the menu and turn the S1 on to its "micro-strip" search method, where you reduce the reception range down to 10 meters. This allows you to do search where the signals from outside that reception range are basicly ignored. And if you wanted you could go back and forth from regular search to micro. Its all in the manual.

Sure there are a lot of factors involved in a mltiple burial search (terrain, victim burial depth, weather, debris type, etc...) then just the transceiver. But, having the best multiple search transceiver in your practiced hands starts to at least make the search for all the victims easier.

I feel that the S1 is superior to the Tracker (I have used and taught the Tracker in courses for over 8 years) because it really does eliminate a lot of things (spikes and null signals, other signals) that the Tracker doesn't. I have personally used or taught how to use these transceivers: Ortovox S1, D3, M1, M2, X1, F1, F2, Tracker (all versions), Pieps 457, Pieps DPS, Barryvox, SOS and the old Ramer Echos. Of all of them I like the Ortovox S1 the best. Obviously, that is my opiinion and experience.

But, there are a couple of thisng that I often see with folks when they start to be critical of any brand of Transceiver. The first is that they don't actually sit down and read the user mannual. They just pull the transceiver out of the box and expect it to work better then any other type of transceiver they have used before. And they also expect the new transceiver to work like some other brand (i.e., expecting a X1 to work exactly like a Tracker). Or they don't understand that ANY transceiver needs you to build your skills in how you use it. How do you build your transceiver skills? Practice, practice, practice, etc, etc, etc.....

Think of it this way = When you started skiing where you any good? No, most likely you really sucked. But, the more you went skiing the better you got at it. Today your now skiing like a champ. What happened??? You where building your ski skills..... Folks need to do the same with their transceiver skills..... Last winter I did 176 transceiver search practices. Most of them where multiple searchs too. Getting lots of practice time in with your transceiver is the most important thing. Practicing just 5 or 6 times a winter is silly. Five or six practice searchs a week is really what folks should be doing.

Cheers,
Halsted

[Jonathan S.]

I feel that the S1 is superior to the Tracker (I have used and taught the Tracker in courses for over 8 years) because it really does eliminate a lot of things (spikes and null signals, other signals) that the Tracker doesn't.

The new Tracker2 has a 3rd antenna and hence will eliminate spikes/nulls during pinpointing.

[Hacksaw]

The new Tracker2 has a 3rd antenna and hence will eliminate spikes/nulls during pinpointing.

Sorry, the new Tracker2?? Looking at the BCA website I don't see this new version of the Tracker listed...

http://www.bcacces.com/bca_products/Tracker/index.php

I'd really be interested in seeing a "Tracker 2." I'm sure eventually BCA will bring out a 3 antenna transceiver.

HM

[Rideski]

make any difference?

Joe, from a experienced rider with novice backcountry skills, I just picked up a second beacon only because it was a good deal I happened across. It is a different brand. Now I have a pieps and a tracker. I had a similar question as you; and one of the thoughts I came across was it will be nice to be educated about two different beacons.

Then, if I happen to find myself away from home and invited out on a trip with borrowed gear, that much more likely I will be able to operate a borrowed beacon...(or have a friend that does not know how to use his new beacon, etc)

[Jonathan S.]

BCA announced the Tracker2 in early February:
http://www.bcaccess.com/home_menu/News/Tracker2.php

BCA did a small pre-production run last week, and then regular production will presumably soon follow.

Some etailers are already listing it:
http://bergsskishop.com/backcountry-...6516c2329.html
http://www.mgear.com/pages/product/p...tem/208086/N/0

Here's a review of the prototype:
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/commen...-in-real-time/

[Hacksaw]

Really. That's interesting

I'd love to get my hands on one. I'm sort of surprised since from what I'm told the BCA guys didn't have one at the Avalanche Jam on the 7th.

HM

[Hugh Jardon]

But, there are a couple of thisng that I often see with folks when they start to be critical of any brand of Transceiver. The first is that they don't actually sit down and read the user mannual. They just pull the transceiver out of the box and expect it to work better then any other type of transceiver they have used before. And they also expect the new transceiver to work like some other brand (i.e., expecting a X1 to work exactly like a Tracker). Or they don't understand that ANY transceiver needs you to build your skills in how you use it. How do you build your transceiver skills? Practice, practice, practice, etc, etc, etc.....

You are absolutely correct! And this is why I think the beacons with all the technical features are dangerous in the hands of most users. Most good skiers are a lot better at skiing than searching with their beacons...

[renoenvy]

The S1 was supposed to come out last year. According to Hacksaw it did, but it was already backordered this year. That much postponement makes me wonder. I hear it's awesome though, from the 3 people that have seen one. Is it going to be your wife's mostly, or a spare mostly (why are you going backcountry so often with people that don't have beacons)? Our shop rents trackers. Most guide services use trackers. This is most likely because they are inexpensive and easy. But, obviously they work in that capacity because they are inexpensive and easy.

If it's your wife's, get her whatever she likes. If it's mostly for friends and drills, get something you are most familiar with so you can teach people how to use it easiest.

I like my pulse a lot. There's been a little discussion on here about the 'on' switch not being absolutely, completely foolproof. I'm guessing they fixed it for this year. But in my opinion, if you turn it on like a normal person, then there is no problem. Ultimately it's not 100% completely foolproof. But when you turn it on at the trailhead, and you aren't trying to screw it up, it's obvious that it's on. You can mess up (at least the 1st year run) if you try. It's also really easy to use. It does have a lot of features, but they don't seem to get in the way of the 'switch to receive, find a beacon quickly' aspect of the search.

I liked it so much I outfitted all my normal partners with one, and they all love it.