Something completely different

[flowtron]

First things first, no Monty Python recitals.

Ok, so I took a Spider 29er demo bike out for some riding this weekend. It was my first experience on a 29 wheel besides a few 'parking lot tests'.

It was an odd day. Not only was it a big wheel bike, it had Shimano dual controls on it as well. I actually began to really dig those things for XC riding. I don't know that I would ever pay money for them, but I can at least understand the appeal for certain types of riding.

Despite being ridden by a cynical, skeptical bastard, both the bike and the shifting system had somewhat of an advantage. Buffalo Creek was the setting and it had rained the day before.

I'm not even really sure where to start. I guess just with the first couple pedal strokes out of the ranger lot....it felt weird. They definitely roll fast and there is a different feeling when they start accelerating, you can feel the momentum. I could also feel the higher center of gravity and some bizzare handling characteristics from the steep geometry.

I was able to get feel for things on the spin up the dirt road to the Shinglemill climb. As soon as we started climbing the singletrack a little bit more of the bike revealed itself. My riding partners for the day were 2 firefighters in town for a few days of r&r. My buddy Ian, who I have not ridden bikes with for 4 years, and that was largely pumice surfing in Mammoth, rides like someone who gets paid to run up and down hills in heavy gear. He was off the front immediately, pushing a decent middle ring gear for a good part of the climb. He was a good rabbit to chase on this bike. When the climb rolled but ultimately gained vert, I found that I was constantly gaining speed, shifting up gears (with my brake levers nontheless). However, short steep bits would rob speed like the Hamburglar. Climbing traction was really good in the loose, steep turns, but I had to jump on the pedals a little early to carry some momentum into them.
My biggest problem at this point (besides wrapping my head around dual control and rapid rise all at once) was the twitchy handling. The stem was a little long and on top of a pile of spacers, the HTa is 73deg, the bars were wide; this adds up to a bit of twitch for me, but in all practicality its a 'personal problem', to be laregly remedied for another ride with a shorter stem and spacer shuffle. Even with a little shuffling, the 73ha feels a little dicey when pointing the bike down anything steep(not that there is much of that in Buff Creek), and in G outs, where my DH backround wants to aggressively pump through, but this bike feels like it might eject me off the front.
Cruising across the Colorado Trail the bike was fun. There was a lot of 'figuring' going on as I found the limits of the tires and the geometry. What I discovered is that 29ers seem to work best when stuck to the ground. My usual style of jumping, pumping and hipping everything in sight did not work very well. Turning the f. wheel at all the air feels sketchy and is actually kind of hard to do. Once I came to terms with this I found I could stay low, lean back and rail.
The leaning back thing is kind of weird. I've gotten so used to riding bigger forks and slacker bikes where I'm up on the fork punching it into traction. The Spider worked best when I leaned back off the seat. It was cool in high speed sections, but in some of those notorious Sandy Wash turns it got a little funny.

I could continue with some other details, but ultimately I had a good time on the bike. I rode a big loop Sat, got hammered and put about 15 miles on the cruiser (and 'won' the Circle of Death) Sat night, then went back out Sunday am with my wife for a shorter ride.
The shorter ride on Sunday was good, because my legs were far from fresh and I had a wolverine hepped up on Schlitz and Red Bull from the night before in my belly. When I wasn't super fresh and chasing a friend I found the bike was not quite the miracle climber I had experienced the day before. We climbed up Gashouse and I found I couldn't keep ticking up through the gears like Saturday. Traction was still good, climbing over rocks was pretty cool too, and when the trails goes 'across' the 29 wheel does have some getup and go. Coming down Charlies Cutoff was fun, but I like my 575 more for that kind of stuff.

Thats that, a fun diversion, a great application for certain types of riders and styles of riding but I did not have a religious experience. I'm going to switch the stem and take it up to a more typical FR trail sometime this week and see how it does in more technical, twisty stuff.
I was honestly more shocked in regards to my stoke on fucking dual control.

[kidwoo]

After using the things for 3 years, I'd say the rapid rise is the wierd part, not the dual control shifters. Those things are just like a shimano road shifter with a normal derailleur. I still don't like that RR derailleurs hang up when trying to downshift under a drive load.

But yeah, with the 29ers I've ridden, the just sitting down and rolling over things is a neat sensation. I'm too short to pop the ones I've ridden around though........mostly the pumping jumping approach you described.

I imagine a spider with 29" wheels flexes like a beyotch though.

[cowdog]

Dave @ Redstone Cyclery in Lyons, CO went from flux/5spot to 6.6 to 29er spider. From his feedback he had one of those religious conversions. Based on Dave's bike progression lately, I was surprised given that the 26 inch spider is basically an XC racing machine.

I still don't know what I think (or even what I want to think) about 29ers. I don't convert to anything easily.

[Rontele]

you know I feel about 29ers...

they are perfect for buff creek

[p-tex]

A couple thoughts:

Integrated shifters / brakes: had ‘em and learned to hate ‘em – the spring tension is the reason that these shift up or easier and as the spring gets older and bounced around a lot on a mtb (unlike a road bike), they start to shift funny and require more adjustment. I was constantly fiddling with them. The other reason they suck is that you are bombing down a technical section and need to shift into a climbing gear just as you want to brake around a corner or just as you hit a bump or something and you’ve got too much going on with your right fingers having to loosen their grip in order to shift. No way – give me some thumb shifters so I can always keep my hands firmly on the grip where they belong.

29’er – had one and fun for some stuff but not the steep rocky Colorado stuff. Flowing trails are one thing and Midwesterners rejoice but no air, no pumping, losing the big MO on short steep stuff – you can have the 29’er.


Anyway – just my 2 cents.

[Lonnie]

The other reason they suck is that you are bombing down a technical section and need to shift into a climbing gear just as you want to brake around a corner or just as you hit a bump or something and you’ve got too much going on with your right fingers having to loosen their grip in order to shift. No way – give me some thumb shifters so I can always keep my hands firmly on the grip where they belong.

If you had short thumbs, you'd sing a different tune.

If you are breaking correctly, you should be able to maximise your breaking on the front wheel (left hand) and still be able to loosen your RIGHT hand to down shift into the proper climbing gear. If I'm having to downshift with my left (front crank), then I'm not where I need to be breaking anymore.

Anyway – just my 2 cents.

[kidwoo]

Meh.

Like I said, I used them for 3 years and I think I accidentally shifted maybe twice.

And I used the rear brake and downshifted at the same time (intentionally) probably every ride.

Only reason they're sitting on my workbench now is that I got sick of listening to the floppy shimano derailleur.

[uncle crud]

I think the mfrs are wrestling with how slack a HA they can sell to the 29" wheeled buyer. The Spider's 73 is crazy - it's equal to a 72 HA on a 26" wheel and I can't imagine riding anything steeper than 70. Or can't remember how.

The Sultan's 71 deg HA is nice - the same as my Inbred w/rigid fork, a bit steeper than the Inbred w/ 100mm Reba.

What surprised me about the Sultan was how much more nimble than the Inbred it is in tight descending switchbacks.

[grskier]

I think the mfrs are wrestling with how slack a HA they can sell to the 29" wheeled buyer. The Spider's 73 is crazy - it's equal to a 72 HA on a 26" wheel and I can't imagine riding anything steeper than 70. Or can't remember how.

The Sultan's 71 deg HA is nice - the same as my Inbred w/rigid fork, a bit steeper than the Inbred w/ 100mm Reba.

A couple of days ago I got on a bike with a super steep HA... it was a weird sensation for a few minutes, didn't like it all that much... that being said, I've only ridden one 29er and felt like it was too tall, I pretty much rack myself on most 26" wheeled bikes as I only have like a 29" inseam.






Well, at least I can agree with you on ONE thing...

[p-tex]

If you had short thumbs, you'd sing a different tune.

If you are breaking correctly, you should be able to maximise your breaking on the front wheel (left hand) and still be able to loosen your RIGHT hand to down shift into the proper climbing gear. If I'm having to downshift with my left (front crank), then I'm not where I need to be breaking anymore.

Anyway – just my 2 cents.

I'm not going to loosen my grip with either hand on my bar while pinning through a technical section and that's where Shimano missed on the integrated shifters which incidentally were designed by a roadie (not that there is anything wrong with that...

[m1e448]

29ers are different. But the Intense spider 29er does have a ridiculously steep headtube angle even for a 29er. Most of my buddies riding 29ers don't like the way it rides compared to other stuff. I don't really care for the way it rides either.

My 29er vote will be for the 29er Fisher Hifi with the fox f29 fork or any hardtail 29er that feels like you are sitting in it with a lot of bb drop.

Anyhow those of you that say a 29er cannot be jumped, wheelied, or the like should take a ride on a 29er like this...


Its one of the most fun 29ers I've ridden to date and feels like a super fast rolling bmx bike.

[Unruly Baker]

The Sultan's 71 deg HA is nice - the same as my Inbred w/rigid fork, a bit steeper than the Inbred w/ 100mm Reba.

What surprised me about the Sultan was how much more nimble than the Inbred it is in tight descending switchbacks.

I have a Sultan frame that's been sitting in my stand for over 3 weeks while I wait for a 135mm thru axle fork. Should bring the HA to a cool 70 and only raise the BB a little. Can't wait to give it a ride and see what all the fuss is about. Should be a killer all-day bike.

UB