Speaking of Fat People: The National Association to Advance FAT Acceptance(NAAFA).

[Cisco Kid]

It's easier to go tut tut than to feel bad. Human Nature 101. Anyway, I learned a lot about heavy people as a salesman of ladies clothing for the Rubenesque.

The truth is in the middle as always. Magic Bullets are only real in sci fi movies.

[The AD]

I'm not intending it to be fat shaming, it's the realization that if you need a drug to lose weight there's some underlying problem. And it may not be an underlying problem with the individual, but with our society.

[tellybele]

Fat shaming is fuct.

[GoldMember]

Interesting article regarding the relationship of exercise and weight loss. Apparently the formula of calories gained minus calories burned equals weight gain/loss doesn't necessarily hold true. The gist of the article is that with an added exercise, the body adapts and utilizes energy used/wasted on other functions in order to support the body functions required for the activity hence, no weight loss.

Sorry for the late edit, got hauled off for Thanksgiving.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/welln...153013abaaa4f1

[Buzzworthy]

I’ve got a long time buddy that banks his whole existence on the way he looks. He works out 3-4 hours a day. All of his girlfriends look like they need to eat a sandwich. He fat shames people out in public to me all the time. The one that made me stop hanging out with him much anymore unless we are doing drugs at a show? Pointed out someone that looks very much like my wife and said “that’s fucking disgusting”.

No sir, you are. You’ve become a judgmental asshole, the kind you’ve always made fun of living here in Utah.

[The AD]

Interesting article regarding the relationship of exercise and weight loss. Apparently the formula of calories gained minus calories burned equals weight gain/loss.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/welln...153013abaaa4f1

I saw that today, too. Very interesting.

[bennymac]

I'm not intending it to be fat shaming, it's the realization that if you need a drug to lose weight there's some underlying problem. And it may not be an underlying problem with the individual, but with our society.

Lack of education on health is a big part of it.

People seem to overestimate how much “exercise” they get - they walk their dog for 25minutes (who stops every ten feet to sniff something) or they say “I don’t exercise but my job is very active” because they sometimes carry a heavy box or climb a ladder.

Then on top of that there is a lack of awareness around how many calories are burned in exercise vs what’s in the food they are eating. You can run at a brisk pace for 30minutes (something most adults can’t do) and then replace all those calories burned and more with a slice of bread with peanut butter.

A bad diet is likely gonna include an excess of calories - and fat shaming people for not exercising their way out of it will never work.

And just telling them “hey - eat better” and they’ll reach for foods they think are healthy like switching from drinking coke to drinking orange juice with every meal.

[Trackhead]

Lack of education on health is a big part of it.

People seem to overestimate how much “exercise” they get - they walk their dog for 25minutes (who stops every ten feet to sniff something) or they say “I don’t exercise but my job is very active” because they sometimes carry a heavy box or climb a ladder.

Then on top of that there is a lack of awareness around how many calories are burned in exercise vs what’s in the food they are eating. You can run at a brisk pace for 30minutes (something most adults can’t do) and then replace all those calories burned and more with a slice of bread with peanut butter.

A bad diet is likely gonna include an excess of calories - and fat shaming people for not exercising their way out of it will never work.

And just telling them “hey - eat better” and they’ll reach for foods they think are healthy like switching from drinking coke to drinking orange juice with every meal.

I know we rarely agree, but this is 100% accurate.

Most people grossly underestimate their true caloric intake and grossly overestimate calories burned exercising.

I did a minor in nutrition and exercise science 1000yrs ago. I remember reading a study where even dieticians underestimated their own daily caloric intake by 500/cal/day.

Losing weight is really hard in a modern world with typically sedentary jobs.

[Buzzworthy]

How big is the percentage of Americans that give zero thought to exercise or their weight at all? We are all educated athletic people. We’ve had this mindset all our lives.

[Trackhead]

Personally I find it easier to eat low calorie and exercise (cardio) less and maybe just lift a little to lose weight. The more I exercise (cardio) the more I eat, usually eclipsing the deficit created.

[Cisco Kid]

Eating donuts and pie and pasta is how I keep my weight stable. But it's not for everyone. My wife gains a pound if she has a ham sandwich. Go figure.

[Dantheman]

In polls about 25% of people report that they get *zero* exercise and another 25% report 0-30 minutes per week. For the latter group "exercise" probably means walking at modest pace at best, so effectively half of America gets no meaningful exercise.

[Dantheman]

Interesting article regarding the relationship of exercise and weight loss. Apparently the formula of calories gained minus calories burned equals weight gain/loss.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/welln...153013abaaa4f1

Only read the headline since it's paywalled, but I can take some pretty good guesses about the arguments. Bottom line, exercise alone is a terrible strategy for weight loss, but on average people who exercise as part of their overall weight loss plan lose more weight, keep it off more effectively, and better improve insulin sensitivity, blood lipids, blood pressure, etc. than people who don't exercise. You don't have to exercise to lose weight but it helps a lot.

[bennymac]

Another barrier is that sedentary overweight people eating ultra processed foods and excess sugar (and alcohol) often just feel a chronic low grade malaise/fatigue. To a lot of them the idea of exerting themselves through exercise is met with resistance because “if I feel this tired and shitty now - and then I go exercise - I’m going to feel even more tired - why would I want that?”

Trying to break through to them that exercising will actually make them feel better and more energetic is a real hurdle - but if you can then to the other side enough times hopefully it will stick and become a habit once they get that healthier feeling.

And once someone starts exercising they often don’t want to erase that effort by eating junk - so they start eating better (they’re probably also not chasing the temporary good feeling from eating junk because now they’re getting that through exercise and the resultant better sleep)

[skaredshtles]

Only read the headline since it's paywalled, but I can take some pretty good guesses about the arguments. Bottom line, exercise alone is a terrible strategy for weight loss, but on average people who exercise as part of their overall weight loss plan lose more weight, keep it off more effectively, and better improve insulin sensitivity, blood lipids, blood pressure, etc. than people who don't exercise. You don't have to exercise to lose weight but it helps a lot.

https://archive.ph/C0O65

[Dantheman]

Personally I find it easier to eat low calorie and exercise (cardio) less and maybe just lift a little to lose weight. The more I exercise (cardio) the more I eat, usually eclipsing the deficit created.

Serious endurance exercise aside (since it doesn't apply to the vast majority of the population), exercise acutely increases hunger but chronically it reduces overall calorie intake by improving sensitivity to satiety hormones.

I know we rarely agree, but this is 100% accurate.

Most people grossly underestimate their true caloric intake and grossly overestimate calories burned exercising.

I did a minor in nutrition and exercise science 1000yrs ago. I remember reading a study where even dieticians underestimated their own daily caloric intake by 500/cal/day.

Losing weight is really hard in a modern world with typically sedentary jobs.

How many people have weighed every piece of food they ate for a whole day? Probably less than 1%. Anyone who hasn't done that has no idea how many calories they eat. I recall reading somewhere credible that if you take everything people say they eat in FFQs it adds up to maybe 1500 calories per day.

The average person's diet is 70% ultra processed foods and while people can crow about preservatives, dyes, emulsifiers, seed oils, etc. ad nauseum, those foods mostly just have really high caloric density. This study proved this as definitively as anything can be proven in nutrition science: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism...131(19)30248-7

Ad libitum feeding, crossover design, people on the ultra processed diet eat an extra 500 kcal/day. Now consider that 50-60 years ago people ate 10-20% ultra processed foods.

Apparently the proposal to have Medicare and Medicaid cover these drugs is estimated to cost $30-40 billion over ten years. That's a rounding error relative to the total budget for those programs and doesn't even account for reductions in obesity-related healthcare costs. At those numbers it's a no brainer. The way I see it we can pay for weight loss drugs, or we can pay for drugs and treatments that manage the conditions caused by obesity. The former is probably cheaper long term and has a much better chance of improving people's lives and leading to long-term lifestyle changes.

Also, the genie out of the bottle. There's already many more of these drugs in development and the next generation appear to be even more effective. I would much rather see people just make lifestyle changes, but drugs for weight loss and weight control are probably going to become a normal part of life for a large percentage of the population whether we like it or not.

[bennymac]

I think we all agree obesity needs to be addressed through multiple approaches simultaneously. That’s hard for under-educated people to wrap their heads around and leads to discouragement and quitting.

Using Ozempic can add a huge degree of initial motivation to people who have failed at losing weight before - now they feel an extra degree of motivation to eat better and exercise more (and they feel like they’re part of a club with other Ozempic users)

Yeah some people are gonna take Ozempic and change nothing else - still shitty diet and no exercise even if they are educated about the benefits. Why we would make sweeping generalizations about Ozempic (it’s just a crutch / it’s a excuse to continue bad habits
/ instead these people just need to get off their asses / it doesn’t work or is not tolerated in everyone so don’t bother) because of this subset of people is myopic.

The best thing that could realistically happen (and may happen - we’ll see) is people go on the medications - it helps them make lifestyle changes - and those changes become permanent in a significant number of those people even if they later come off the medication.

[Trackhead]

it doesn’t work or is not tolerated in everyone so don’t bother) because of this subset of people is myopic.

Benny, when I mentioned tolerance/side effects, I do that because I see so many people getting this shit in shady ways, from compounding pharmacies, online predatory fee based prescribers, etc. These people seemingly have no clue about side effects, and why would they, when the prescriber couldn't give a shit less and is charging them a monthly fee for the prescription.

This happens A LOT in the United States. More than half the nurses I work with are on it, I've seen a couple of them in the ER puking, pale, miserable, one with pancreatitis. I also see people come in with abd pain, vomiting, etc. but fail to tell me until nearly the end of the ER visit that they started Ozempic 4 weeks prior, because they don't associate their symptoms with the med. That's not good.

That's my take. It's not a "Ozempic Sucks" stance at all. I've literally bent over backwards trying to get people approved for it.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Ok, but what about the National Association of Marlin Brando Look Alikes?

[Mudfoot]

It is delusional to think that taking any drug will jumpstart or motivate people to make a major lifestyle change from eatng junk food and not exercising to a healthier place. The drug will do exactly the opposite by giving them an excuse to not change. Taking drugs that give you a perceived positive result simply creates addicts and huge pharma profits.

[rod9301]

I think we all agree obesity needs to be addressed through multiple approaches simultaneously. That’s hard for under-educated people to wrap their heads around and leads to discouragement and quitting.

Using Ozempic can add a huge degree of initial motivation to people who have failed at losing weight before - now they feel an extra degree of motivation to eat better and exercise more (and they feel like they’re part of a club with other Ozempic users)

Yeah some people are gonna take Ozempic and change nothing else - still shitty diet and no exercise even if they are educated about the benefits. Why we would make sweeping generalizations about Ozempic (it’s just a crutch / it’s a excuse to continue bad habits
/ instead these people just need to get off their asses / it doesn’t work or is not tolerated in everyone so don’t bother) because of this subset of people is myopic.

The best thing that could realistically happen (and may happen - we’ll see) is people go on the medications - it helps them make lifestyle changes - and those changes become permanent in a significant number of those people even if they later come off the medication.

It's not so easy as telling people to get off their asses.

If you eat any processed food, it's full of bad chemicals, seed oils, all bad for you.

Potatoe chips, all bad.

And if you come from work at 6 30, after your hour commute, it's hard to get the motivation to cook from scratch. And when do you have time to exercise?

Life is stacked against you, by the food manufacturers.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[m2711c]

It is delusional to think that taking any drug will jumpstart or motivate people to make a major lifestyle change from eatng junk food and not exercising to a healthier place. The drug will do exactly the opposite by giving them an excuse to not change. Taking drugs that give you a perceived positive result simply creates addicts and huge pharma profits.

read more on how this affects addictive behaviors.

[bennymac]

It is delusional to think that taking any drug will jumpstart or motivate people to make a major lifestyle change from eatng junk food and not exercising to a healthier place. The drug will do exactly the opposite by giving them an excuse to not change. Taking drugs that give you a perceived positive result simply creates addicts and huge pharma profits.

I’ve seen it occur in many people with my own eyes.

But go ahead fill us in on what you’ve seen

[bennymac]

It's not so easy as telling people to get off their asses.

If you eat any processed food, it's full of bad chemicals, seed oils, all bad for you.

Potatoe chips, all bad.

And if you come from work at 6 30, after your hour commute, it's hard to get the motivation to cook from scratch. And when do you have time to exercise?

Life is stacked against you, by the food manufacturers.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

If you’re gonna argue that people’s time and energy is limited - and society’s resources for tackling obesity is limited (all of which I agree with) - then discussing food dyes and seed oils has to be super far down the list of priorities to be focusing on.

[Dantheman]

LOL, I sure called that one.