looking for a boat...

[cmsummit]

I would agree with the Jackson=overrated post. Look at Jackson outfitting that is three years old and you'll know why, and as far as "dry" is concerned, your boat is only as dry as your sprayskirt, I watch people in Jackson boats sponge out just as much water as anyone else.

Jackson boats are the driest out there. Period. I've owned Dagger, WS, and now have a Fun. I can paddle a 10 mile run, play all the way down the river, have to roll 30 times, and won't even have enough water in my boat to sponge out at the end. They ARE that dry. My buddy, who paddles a LL, will have to stop at least two or three times to drain his boat.

As far as the outfitting, I have an '04 Fun and haven't had any problems. Nothing has broken(I have the ratchet backband) and I stay snug and in place. I dunno, I've heard people having problems, but mine has treated me well.

[RootSkier]

The whole dry boat thing is a load of bullshit.

I have paddled Dagger, Eskimo, Jackson, Wavesport and Riot boats that were all 100% dry. It depends hugely on your sprayskirt and also on IF YOUR BOLTS ARE TIGHT.

I have heard people complain about wet boats and upon cursory inspection it is obvious that their boat just needs 5 minutes of maintenance.

This argument is tired and dumb.

Also, outfitting is largely irrelevant. An evening with some minicell, a surform, a bottle of weldwood contact cement and a six pack of beer will give awesome outfitting and increased comfort. Gimmick outfitting is dumb, though I admit I am partial to the whole Jackson rope 'n' cleat thing.

[cmsummit]

The whole dry boat thing is a load of bullshit.

I'm speaking from my experience and I know alot of paddlers who will agree. There's definitely some truth to it. But hey, to each his own.

[hialtitude]

Maybe I am beating a dead horse here, but Jackson boats are made to be user friendly. You can achieve boat comfort as RootSkier says with minicell and a little time but Jackson outfitting delivers comfort "right out of the box" and that is what appeals to newbies and people who don't want to spend the time shaving and gluing foam.

As far as the dryness goes, I paddle a 4Fun and yeah it was dry. I ripped my skirt this season and bought a new Snapdragon and gues what, not so dry anymore. My point is that there are a lot of variables that go into keeping water out of your cockpit.

[RootSkier]

I'm speaking from my experience and I know alot of paddlers who will agree. There's definitely some truth to it. But hey, to each his own.

Your experience that your Jackson boat is dry? Big deal. I had an Ultrafuge that I could paddle 15 miles of the Lochsa in and NOT A DROP of water would enter.
My friend had one that wasn't so dry...because he was lazy and wouldn't tighten the seat bolts.

What is your point?

edit: just so you all know, I have paddled an All Star and was amazed by how great it paddled. Definitely a sweet boat. I want one. But the dryness is nothing special.

[cmsummit]

What is your point?

Pretty simple formula really.

Given that you have a spray skirt that fits well: no holes in hull = better chance that your boat will stay dry. No maintenance required, no bolt seals/gaskets to worry about.

I'm not saying that other individual boats of different brands can't be drier, but EJ has designed a boat that has one less way that water can leak into the boat.

Does this make Jackson an overall drier brand of kayak, without any maintenance involved? I think so.

edit: Sounds like you had good luck with your 'fuge, I had one that leaked like a sieve(and yes, I was pretty anal about making sure the bolts were tight). and yes, this has been beaten' like a dead horse.