How to ice axe self arrest

[icelanticskier]

that video is beyond painful to watch. hmmm, pay attention much? his wandering skis tell me he should be practicing making pizza and french fries across the street on polecat.

rog

[NoPostholio]

rog - how steep is that line? hard to tell if that was hard to arrest there or not - them gopros fuck me up with le angle

[JayPowHound]

that video is beyond painful to watch. hmmm, pay attention much? his wandering skis tell me he should be practicing making pizza and french fries across the street on polecat.

rog

I'm with you, ouch.

It took him less than the first half of his first turn to completely fuck shit up... maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't be in there in the first place.



To contribute to the conversation, I carry an axe when climbing/skiing stuff that is steep and/or exposed because I tend to get puckered much faster climbing than I do with skis on my feet and it makes me feel better to have it.

I've never had to self arrest outside of practice but have definitely relied on both pick and shaft placements to hold me to the hill in off-balance situations where I may have tumbled if I didn't have it.

Never skied with a whippet, but there's been one on the not-so-urgent wtb list for a couple years now, so maybe someday.

[PNWbrit]

Is how he fell really that important regarding whether whippet was a tool effective in a arresting fall?

Clearly it's an option better than not having one but less so than an axe.

You might want to search for straightchuter's posts regarding them for more useful input?

[JayPowHound]

Is how he fell really that important regarding whether whippet was a tool effective in a arresting fall?

Clearly it's an option better than not having one but less so than an axe.

Nope.. just an observation that i happen to agree with, which is why I classified that the remainder of my post, for whatever it was worth, was actually intended to add to the discussion at hand.

Dick.

[icelanticskier]

rog - how steep is that line? hard to tell if that was hard to arrest there or not - them gopros fuck me up with le angle

about 45-47 degees depending on how the snow has stacked up. so, average, but not that steep by east side george standards. and VERY straight forward view it all line. a walk up with an ice bulge that requires a whippet and or an axe/tool. about a 1000 vert to the mid apron.

i'm a big whippet fan. between one whippet and my beloved BD neve pro alu crampons, that combo is great for climbing/skiing anything that will hold snow of most any kind. never had to arrest before, but man o man what a nice climbing aid a whippet is.

rog

[icelanticskier]

maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't be in there in the first place.

agreed.

rog

[d542east]

Saved Louie on Larabee

[D-Roc]

Huge fan of the whippet. Great for climbing steeps and to lock gear off as you stomp a transition platform.

I have had to self arrest with a whippet before. Dropped in to Pipeline in GG last year with 4 inches of wind drive atop ice crust. Lost it on the fifth turn - tele (baseball) slide. Buried the sucker in and went into the arrest position... stopped with a couple meters.

Recovered and finished the run... the climb back out sucked, but the whippet was great for that too.

The angle spur atop the whippet helps quicken the breaking during the fall but remember feeling the jerk of it catch, however i had the wrist strap on.


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[icelanticskier]

Huge fan of the whippet. Great for climbing steeps and to lock gear off as you stomp a transition platform.

I have had to self arrest with a whippet before. Dropped in to Pipeline in GG last year with 4 inches of wind drive atop ice crust. Lost it on the fifth turn - tele (baseball) slide. Buried the sucker in and went into the arrest position... stopped with a couple meters.

Recovered and finished the run... the climb back out sucked, but the whippet was great for that too.

The angle spur atop the whippet helps quicken the breaking during the fall but remember feeling the jerk of it catch, however i had the wrist strap on.


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Did you boot back out from above the ice bulge? Such a classic line. Rog

[SILENCER]

Saved Louie on Larabee

The comments in this TR were pretty good. It does bring up my followup question...one whippet or two? Man. It seems so conditional. Louie seemed like two saved his bacon, but I could also see if you had only one you could put more into it. I dunno! But flipside, if you drop your only whippet you're hosed. D-Roc had very good results with one.

Brings up yet another question, should you ski with the wrist strap on a whippet pole, violating an old b/c rule about pole wrist straps?

Louie also hinted that he wasn't aware of any instructional videos or suggested best practices out there for whippets. They seem like a very cool invention that has some implied usage method and certainly some fans out there, but no real agreed upon use like the well tested axe. Or at least documented or easily findable for this moron (pointing at myself).

My overall reason for posting all this is that I ordered one, and didn't want to assume anything about its use in arrest.


I think I would agree with everyone on here for the ascent benefits, they seem very rad and a no brainer.

[icelanticskier]

you'll be stoked you got one. One or 2? I went with 1 cuz it suits my purpose just fine which would include steep (up to about 55
degrees) on firm snow on lines up to about 1500 vert. I've never been tweaked by exposure and just the one gives me plenty to dig in on ascents with or without crampons. If I thought I needed a 2nd one I'd probably just get a short mountaineering axe/tool. I pretty much always wear my wrist straps. Losing a pole from dropping it isn't my idea of a good time. Rog

[Meadow Skipper]

The comments in this TR were pretty good. It does bring up my followup question...one whippet or two? Man. It seems so conditional. Louie seemed like two saved his bacon, but I could also see if you had only one you could put more into it. I dunno! But flipside, if you drop your only whippet you're hosed. D-Roc had very good results with one.

FWIW, I have two. I don't always bring both, but if I'm anticipating some serious sketch I'll take both. Other times I'll only bring one. It may just make me feel better to have two, but that's gotta be worth something. Never used them in a serious fall, but I've punched them in pretty quickly at the beginning of a slip.

Brings up yet another question, should you ski with the wrist strap on a whippet pole, violating an old b/c rule about pole wrist straps?

The no straps rule is for avys, right? IMO if you're worried about avys the snow conditions are such that you probably aren't worried about a screaming slide. So I wear the straps.

No doubt someone will find problems with my thinking.

[D-Roc]

Rog.... yea booted with cramps out... the bulge was just to big at the time.... I wonder if I could just v -thread and rap with an AT rope to access the remainder of the run

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[icelanticskier]

Rog.... yea booted with cramps out... the bulge was just to big at the time.... I wonder if I could just v -thread and rap with an AT rope to access the remainder of the run

well, so often so long as you cut hard/high skiers left just above the bulge, you can usually hit a right ramp which cuts down the size of the drop to 6-8 feet, or makes it just one part air part contact traverse turn to lower skiers right. if hucking the bulge you wanna make sure you stick the landing as it's still quite steep, very narrow with high rock walls on both sides with a runout zone that melts out to a boulder field pretty quickly.

classic, pipeline is prominent skiers left line.




ice bulge closeup



i've hucked the bulge on tele gear as i knew my skis wouldn't come off on landing

rog

[icelanticskier]

but who needs whippets, crampons, ropes, or garter belts when you have heavy lange alpine race boots to penetrate 1/4-1 inch deep spring snow over water ice on slopes over 50 degrees? best boots evar!!!

focus!


rog

[PNWbrit]

Nope..

Comment was aimed at Rog.

Obviously.

[icelanticskier]

classic, pipeline is prominent skiers left line.

doh! i meant the prominent lookers left line

bite me brit!!!

rog

[SILENCER]

FWIW, I have two. I don't always bring both, but if I'm anticipating some serious sketch I'll take both. Other times I'll only bring one. It may just make me feel better to have two, but that's gotta be worth something. Never used them in a serious fall, but I've punched them in pretty quickly at the beginning of a slip.


The no straps rule is for avys, right? IMO if you're worried about avys the snow conditions are such that you probably aren't worried about a screaming slide. So I wear the straps.

No doubt someone will find problems with my thinking.

That's a good point about the avy strap rule. I would say a "traditional" slide and a hard surface arrest wouldn't necessarily be mutually inexclusive on the same day. Maybe not on the same pitch though unless you changed aspects midway through.

Thanks for the input.

[homemadesalsa]

I like one whippet, and don't use the strap as I switch it hand to hand as uphill hand changes. With one, I can drop the other ski pole and effect a reasonable self-arrest, similar to an ice axe arrest. Use your second/ downhill hand to crank on the shaft of the whippet.

I have my ski mtneering students practice self-arrest w whippet before we launch into steep terrain. Have used it to arrest myself without much speed, but defining moment was watching a student fall and gather speed, then whippet arrest successfully on north-side of Shastina.

For me, any time I have ski crampons on skis, I carry whippet. As much for an extra balance point in kick or step turns as anything. I have used it/ needed it badly outside Chamonix in the Aiguilles Rouges where we couldn't find the second rappel anchor. Downclimbing became do-able with a whippet.

Folks have initial trepidation about skiing with a whippet, but I find that if you hold it firmly at the hand grip, you can keep it under control. Have never felt threatened by the possibility of skewering myself w the pick.

[JTrue]

I just finally got around to ordering the BD whippet. Have always had axe & crampons, but luckily I've never had to arrest.

Has anyone here ever had to arrest with a whippet? I did some digging (where I found this thread) here and elsewhere and only found axe arrest instructional vids. I did find this though:





Obviously not intentional, but at least it's a data point. I presume that whippet technique is still basically the same, get both hands on the pole spaced apart, weight on the pick, etc.

Does anyone have any stories to share with a possible fall & arrest with a whippet, how the whippet held up? Any adjustments? When I get it I should just go practice of course, but was curious if anyone had any other data, tips, etc.

Is this what you're looking for?

[SILENCER]

I like one whippet, and don't use the strap as I switch it hand to hand as uphill hand changes. With one, I can drop the other ski pole and effect a reasonable self-arrest, similar to an ice axe arrest. Use your second/ downhill hand to crank on the shaft of the whippet.

I have my ski mtneering students practice self-arrest w whippet before we launch into steep terrain. Have used it to arrest myself without much speed, but defining moment was watching a student fall and gather speed, then whippet arrest successfully on north-side of Shastina.

For me, any time I have ski crampons on skis, I carry whippet. As much for an extra balance point in kick or step turns as anything. I have used it/ needed it badly outside Chamonix in the Aiguilles Rouges where we couldn't find the second rappel anchor. Downclimbing became do-able with a whippet.

Folks have initial trepidation about skiing with a whippet, but I find that if you hold it firmly at the hand grip, you can keep it under control. Have never felt threatened by the possibility of skewering myself w the pick.

This is exactly the kinda info I was looking for (or at least how I envisioned having just one working). Thank you sir.

[SILENCER]

Is this what you're looking for?

I was waiting for this song to make an appearance in this thread

[icelanticskier]

Thank you Miss.

FIFY^^^



rog

[homemadesalsa]

FIFY^^^



rog

And actually, it is Mrs. Heh, heh. I do love all the threads talking about how I wish I could get the wifey into the mtns. Follow me, ladies.