Review of the new Dynafit Zzero4 and 3 Carbon alpine touring boots

[blueneon]

Maybe... ;-)
Tongues on the U are the same than on the C ... just the C version has a carbon fiber protector on the instep area which helps a bit to disperse buckles pressure. U version has this protector in nylon (rilsan).

The cuff limiters are now on most of the downhill oriented boots.. they were introduced on touring boots first on Garmont's Adrenalin and now the others are following.
They're realy not a "stop point" where the boot become stiff like a piece of rock... they just enable the flex pressure to be dispersed on the lower shell and it turns into a stiffer forward flex and a better power transmission on the boot toe..
Note that on the zzero, having a double position locking ski walk mechanism, the cuff limiters works only on the lower ski position...
Also note that trying the boot flex in a shop is not like flexing it in the snow... high temperature makes the plastic much softer...

Blueneon - do you work for Dynafit? Are the tongues on the U stiffer than on the C (I was told they were)? Since this is a new boot, and there has obviously been some question as to how stiff it actually is I suggest a TGR forum discount, you know, for testing purposes, I'd happily volunteer my services

A while back there was discussion about the cuff limiters which can be seen in the picture Pechelman put up. FYI, I was trying on some Scarpa Spirit 4s yesterday, and they too have these. They are lower down on the cuff, and can't be seen clearly on the pics on this thread, but the pair I tried on had them. When flexing the Zzeros, I couldnt really feel a stopping point, like some have people mentioned in regards to the cuff limiters on last years Aero Freerides.

[LeeLau]

thanks blueneon for these replies and on the couloirmag thread.

Like I said, I didn't realize i had preproduction models when I reviewed. A bit of miscommunication between me and the Rep.

Really appreciate you chiming in.

[harpo-the-skier]

4) ZZero MF liners... there is no thermoforming foam inside... they're traditional lace-up touring liners... From the pictures posted from lee (samples) the real production will have an additional lace loops on the 45° area... These are very comfortable, durable, breathable liners...
Heavier than TF,G-Fit or Intuition liners... but much more durable and comfortable...
In the European market, especially Ger-Aus-Swiss most of the sales are on these liners... because people are less interested in weight and customizabiliy... they look more into comfort and durability... also true that most of the shops in usa are really specialist and can fit the thermoformable liners at best.. which is difficult to do in european shops..
5) TF vs G-Fit vs Scarpa Intuition ... what to say, all the thermoformable liners in the market are a compromise... they feature lightness and thermoform-ability despite to durability and moisture transfer from the foot to outside.. All the 3 producers are doing most of the liners from the same supplier...a french manufacturer which owns a well done patent on this technology... and so there is really no big difference between all of them.. Just Scarpa where using overlap construction instead of tongue construction... but this has, from my point of view, more bad than good points... Also scarpa, since last season, is using in USA Intuition liners... and for the coming season they are using them in all the models...
These liners...from what I know, are harder and more durable but has less thermoforming ability... I can't say what's best and what's worst...
What I can say is that Scarpa for example...in their racing/more expensive boot they're using the "french made" thermo liner .. and also with tongue construction... So no intuition and no overlap on their more exclusive boot..
Some might comment that they use the overlap liners on the "more downhill" oriented boot and the tongue in the more "climbing oriented" ... but just as example... which is the Alpine downhill boot using overlap liners?.. also world cup racing boots have tongue construction liners...

BN, can you comment on the warmth of the various liners? Obviously, fit is most important, but given that the fit is correct and the boots aren't buckled too tight, I was under the impression that the Intuition was the warmest liner: going from warmest to coldest: Intuition>Other Thermofoam, including the TF>Traditional, including the MF. Is this correct?

[harpo-the-skier]

thanks blueneon for these replies and on the couloirmag thread.

Like I said, I didn't realize i had preproduction models when I reviewed. A bit of miscommunication between me and the Rep.

Really appreciate you chiming in.

LL, maybe I didn't read this thread carefully enough, but how were the preproduction boots you reviewed different from the production ones?

[blueneon]

Difficult question...
I mean... all the thermo liners Dynafit/Garmont/Scarpa Intution looks warmer than all the traditinal liners.. and it's the truth .. but why?.. because they have a closed cell EVA foam inside which is the thermoforming part.
This turns in the fact that those liners have zero breathability and so they looks much warmer... The bad thing is that they left all the humidity on the foot which means much more heel blisters risk... this is also the reason why the TF liners dryes much quicker than the traditinal liners, because they doesn't absorb any humidity on the padding... only a bit on the lining material.
Traditional liners like MF from dynafit... have a breathable padding so the humidity can go out and far away from the feet... that padding is normally softer and more confortable... and also take more time to completely dry...
Between the intution liners and dynafit/garmont liners I don't know if they're warmer.. but I don't think, maybe it's just a feeling because if I well remember they uses a bit thicker inner lining... but this might give just a warmer feeling but in the reality being a closed cell eva foam like all the others I think it's about the same insulation level...
So at the end... yes Thermo liners might look warmer.. but one of the footwear rules says.. wet feet are cold feet... so for example with TF if you're not very sportive in the climbing activity and if you stop somtimes to breath or if you don't change your sock often and if it's very cold... and you do a lot of up and down in the same day.. you might prefer a tradional liner... Then again if you're doing multy day tours sleeping in huts or in tent it's much preferabble the Thermo liners becuse they dries much quicker..
I think that having two pair of liners, one standard and one thermo and chose which use in base of the tour it's the best... and this is what I normally do ;-)

BN, can you comment on the warmth of the various liners? Obviously, fit is most important, but given that the fit is correct and the boots aren't buckled too tight, I was under the impression that the Intuition was the warmest liner: going from warmest to coldest: Intuition>Other Thermofoam, including the TF>Traditional, including the MF. Is this correct?

[blueneon]

If the boots Lee tested are 27,5 the main difference from production will be the traditional liner lacing, which will have an additional loop on 45° area, and a smoother cuff movement for improved walkability.

LL, maybe I didn't read this thread carefully enough, but how were the preproduction boots you reviewed different from the production ones?

[LeeLau]

thanks blueneon - yeah - i tested the 27.5 and I was told the difference was in the liners.

[Pierre LeCouloir]

Probably not news to anyone here, but Lou Dawson has a first impression post on the C-4: http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=917

[Pierre LeCouloir]

Damn it! The Zzero 4 C-TFs are showing up at online retailers, but not in the ginormous size 30 that I think my feet are. Anyone know anything more about the North American rollout of these boots?

[blueneon]

I think 30,5 will be available in the next weeks in the US... unfortunately biggest sizes alwasy take to long to be developed...
Try to call Dynafit USA for more info: 303-444-0446

Damn it! The Zzero 4 C-TFs are showing up at online retailers, but not in the ginormous size 30 that I think my feet are. Anyone know anything more about the North American rollout of these boots?

[steved]

Whoops - just saw this.

I got the information about the thermo forming from the dynafit catalog that I posted. I don't have the liners on me to confirm but it sure looked to me like the bottom part of the liner was thermo

The laces go down halfway to the instep. There was no tongue reinforcement.



Here's a picture fyi from the review -


Full review is here of course and at the doglotion link. Bigger pictures - http://www.leelau.net/2007/dynafitreviewmarch2007/

Lee/wilcox/pechelman...anyone...can anybody tell me which liner that is..on the far left...
Thanks....
*kinda akin' to a wilcox question from last Spring. The Intuition in Scarpas is too bulcky for the Dynafit shell...I received the PU Dynafit shell & non-thermo liner...feels kinda weak...am going to go with the carbon...and if Dynafit thermo isn't as thick as Scarpa's = clear sailing...

Steve

[wilcox510]

Those are the Dynafit TF (thermofit) liners on the left. Not sure if the rest of your post is a statement or a question, but I don't think the Intuition liners are too bulky for the Dynafits if they are molded well. I'm pretty sure I will be putting some alpine power wraps in the Zzeros myself.

[Core Shot]

Ohhh crap. Trigger pulled. I swore the green was too ugly, but I'm such a gear whore I could not resist a sweet discount for shiny new gear.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150189184020

Anyone know if I bought a pre-production version?

Also, it says TF liner, but the pic shows a lace up, which I thought was MF??



For anyone that is a 27.5, he has another non-carbon version for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150189851347

[snoboy]

I'm pretty sure that's the MF liner. I don't think the TF liners are coming in half sizes.

[Core Shot]

Well, finally got the Zzero's to fit my foot and on the snow.

1) they came with MF liners and there was no chance they would fit my high instep foot

2) converted to Intuition Alpine Power Wrap liners and they fit great

3) in house forward flexing was weak sauce (much the same as my megarides) so I ditched the "carbon" tongue and used a Denali tongue that was stiffer.

Result (after one day of admittedly frigid negative farhenheit skiiing) is one hell of a strong skiing boot.

1) Lateral edging stiffness was awesomo. The carbon stringers actually work.

2) Forward stiffness with the intuition wrap liner and replacement tongue was great. The jury is out, however, until I can ski this boot in normal temps. Pebax is less temp dependent than polyurethane, but everything is stiff below zero.

3) light weight, easy hiking, comfortable, love the easy entry dynafit toe, etc.

Overall much better than I expected. I almost ditched these boots based on indoor initial fitting and soft flexing.
I decided to keep them until next years boots which might be "better"
After the modifications and skiing them, I feel like I might be skiing these for several years to come.

[xyz]

How does the lateral stiffness compare to a Raichle Flexon?

[Trackhead]

I ditched the Dynafit liner and put my Scarpa liners in the boots. The 27 was just a tad tight, and the Scarpa liner wrap around is a better system, I think.

[LeeLau]

D - have you had enough time on these to comment on performance?