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Thread: WSJ: Texans Bet Big On Summer Skiing On Snowless Slopes

  1. #1
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    WSJ: Texans Bet Big On Summer Skiing On Snowless Slopes

    From the front page of today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article_print/...736204360.html

    I'm sure there are many of you that would consider this project a success if it kept just one Texan out of Colorado.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal
    FORT WORTH, Texas -- When summer hits the parched, flat prairie here, temperatures can spike to 100 degrees and firefighters get busy responding to the grass fires that routinely flare. To Charlie Aaron, it's a perfect time to go snowboarding.

    Mr. Aaron and several investors have ambitious plans to build a 25-story mountain with slopes for year-round, outdoor skiing and snowboarding. Surrounding the mountain will be an "Alpine Village" with chairlifts, ice rinks, a bobsled track, a winter wonder-park for children, a retail center, a 600-room hotel and a convention center. Total cost of the proposed Bearfire Resort: $696 million.

    Bearfire is just the latest outdoor leisure venture to make a giant bet on defying nature in wildly improbable places. Dubai, in the Persian Gulf region, has an indoor ski dome that is part of its Mall of the Emirates. It plans to open another next year that revolves and has polar bears. A $35 million artificial whitewater-rafting center opened outside Charlotte, N.C., in September.

    But even Bearfire's investors acknowledge that people are skeptical about summer skiing in Texas -- outdoors on artificial slopes that are without snow and aren't even cold. "There are some naysayers and people who can't really wrap their brain around it," says the 53-year-old Mr. Aaron, president of the investor group. Originally from San Francisco, he has spent most of his career in sales, marketing and public relations. "They have the same questions that everybody else has, because it's really incongruous, is it not?"

    Saving a Trip

    He insists the nearly six million people who live in metropolitan Dallas-Fort Worth, will find, in winter too, that it is easier and cheaper to ski Bearfire Mountain than to fly 700 miles to Colorado. Texans made up 6.5% of all visits to Rocky Mountain area ski resorts last year, second only to Coloradans, according to a survey by the National Ski Areas Association, a trade group in Lakewood, Colo.

    Included in the group of investors is former Republican House Majority Leader Dick Armey, who says he has invested some of his own money. Mr. Armey says he likes the idea of winter sports in the sweltering Texas summer. "I'm a grandfather in Texas and there's not a summer that goes by when I'm not moaning over the fact that I can't be outside with my grandkids except neck deep in a swimming pool," says Mr. Armey, who now practices law. "Wouldn't it be great if there was a place where we could be outside and enjoy ourselves, even in August?"

    The technology that makes it possible, which is known as Snowflex, uses water-misting systems to create a nonrefrigerated surface -- think of wet, white Astroturf with bristles -- that is slippery enough for skiing but with enough grip for turning. A few Snowflex slopes are operating in Europe, including one that is open year-round in Noeux-les-Mines, France. It is built on old coal-mining slag heaps in an area near Lille that isn't naturally conducive to skiing.

    But this is Texas, so it must be bigger. With 650,000 square feet of skiable surface, the Bearfire slopes promise to be six times the size of the artificial slope in France. The mountain's superstructure is supposed to rise about 240 feet and require 7,000 tons of steel.

    Wendell Jacobson, an investor in Bearfire and president of Management Solutions Inc. in Fountain Green, Utah, a multifamily-residence management company, says investors will ultimately put up $150 million, and the rest will be borrowed. Mr. Jacobson said the Bearfire investors are exploring several financial alternatives and are contemplating hiring advisers from UBS and Merrill Lynch, among others. The group plans to open the resort in the fall of 2009.

    Mr. Aaron has never been involved in a large-scale development project. He has brought in family-entertainment industry veterans, including the Baker Leisure Group, of Orlando, Fla., to pull together the business plan and Greg Damron Design Inc., whose résumé includes the master plan of Universal Studios Japan, to design the resort.

    Keeping Things Cool

    Unlike existing domed ski resorts -- including the one in Dubai -- the winter activities at Bearfire will be outdoors. The polymer surface will feel cooler than the air in summer, but it won't be cold. To battle the heat (in an area that had 43 days in which the temperature topped 100 degrees in 2006), the developers plan to install misters, shades and turbo-fans, to reduce the temperature by about 20 degrees where people are lining up.

    Mr. Aaron says Bearfire's consultants predict 2.4 million visits in the first year, but that the venture will still be profitable if the numbers come in 20% below that. To make a go of year-round skiing, Bearfire also will have to change the mind-set of the typical skier who is eager to hit the slopes in November but whose interest wanes with the first whiff of spring.

    "I'm not convinced that people will have the desire to ski in the warm weather," says William Marks, an analyst who follows ski-resort companies for JMP Securities. "Do they want to go on a ski vacation when kids are off playing baseball or soccer?"

    Bearfire will face strong competition for local leisure dollars in summer. In addition to Major League Baseball's Texas Rangers franchise and a minor-league baseball team (the Fort Worth Cats), the area has a Six Flags Over Texas amusement park and a giant water park called Hurricane Harbor. Just 10 miles away from the proposed Bearfire site, Great Wolf Resorts Inc. is building an indoor water-park resort with its own 400-suite hotel. In winter, Bearfire would have to compete with ski areas in Colorado and New Mexico that charge comparable fees but have real snow. An all-day pass for an adult will cost about $70 at Bearfire, not including rental equipment or lessons.

    Mr. Aaron says he's confident the project will avoid the unanticipated costs of some large projects. Mr. Marks says most of the hotel developments expected to open between 2006 and 2008 are coming in over budget, primarily because of increased construction costs. In an extreme example, the cost of the Meadowlands Xanadu, a mammoth retail and amusement development being built in northern New Jersey that will include the first domed artificial-snow ski facility in the U.S., ballooned to $2.3 billion from $1.2 billion in just two years. Colony Capital took over the Xanadu project in November after the original developer, Mills Corp., wasn't able to finance the project's cost.

    Paul Hilbig, an avid skier who attended the University of Texas at Arlington, tried out several Snowflex slopes in the United Kingdom in 2005, courtesy of Bearfire investors. At first, he was skeptical of the technology, but he found that it felt remarkably like real snow. "If you were blind, you couldn't tell if you were skiing on one or the other."
    Because rich has nothing to do with money.

  2. #2
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    240 vertical feet is going to cost $70 a day. man texans either have way too much money or are just real suckers if they are going to pay that. i dont really understand who is going to pay $200 a nigth at some ritzy hotel in downtown texas to go ski that type of vertical. not to mention there is never a chance for pow or a variety of skiing such as bumps.

    i really doubt vail is sweating this announcement

    i can understand having one in dubai but texas... i guess if it keeps them off the slopes in colorado and new mexico then i would have some happier friends
    Last edited by postman22; 05-16-2007 at 09:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postman22 View Post
    240 vertical feet is going to cost $70 a day. man texans either have way too much money or are just real suckers if they are going to pay that. i dont really understand who is going to pay $200 a nigth at some ritzy hotel in downtown texas to go ski that type of vertical. not to mention there is never a chance for pow or a variety of skiing such as bumps.

    i really doubt vail is sweating this announcement

    i can understand having one in dubai but texas... i guess if it keeps them off the slopes in colorado and new mexico then i would have some happier friends
    There is some video here, but I'm not sure if this is the exact link, just look for 'skiing on Texas':
    http://online.wsj.com/public/page/8_0006.html
    Regardless, I don't see how this makes sense when you could by an entire small mountain in Colorado, plus a small airline for the same price. BUT Texans are freaks, they pay millions for houses at Keystone, and keep Breck near the top of the list for skier visits so who knows? it may work and keep some of them from bothering us up north.

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    texans skiing texas..........that is messed up....not sure this will work but good luck colorodo locals

    won't ever work.......it's sinking in now i bet
    whatever I feel like i what to do!

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    i grew up within half an hour of the proposed location for this place. I'd have spent at least half of my golf money skiing there, probably more. this may keep tourist texans out of colorado but in the end, you'll end up with more texan jerkoffs like me working on your lifts and washing your dishes. can you honestly think of a group of people as a whole who hoot and holler and genuinely look to enjoy skiing more than the gaper texans?? give the young 'uns an opportunity to ski and a lot more texans won't make the mistake of staying there after graduation from high school... they'll be in colorado instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Star View Post
    ...can you honestly think of a group of people as a whole who hoot and holler and genuinely look to enjoy skiing more than the gaper texans?? .
    Yeah, the Gay Ski Week crowd in Aspen. Texans are a close second, but some of the gays can actually ski and they tip well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by postman22 View Post
    240 vertical feet is going to cost $70 a day. man texans either have way too much money or are just real suckers if they are going to pay that. i dont really understand who is going to pay $200 a nigth at some ritzy hotel in downtown texas to go ski that type of vertical. not to mention there is never a chance for pow or a variety of skiing such as bumps.
    You have no idea how much money people burn on stupid shit down here.

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    70 motherfucking dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    I was excited about this before, but no more. What a load of shit. I'd rather drive 15 hours to colorado.

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    I was kind of leery of it. How well can that carpet stuff slide, and how is it on your bases?
    Last edited by givebackbloom; 05-17-2007 at 12:38 AM.

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    Since when did Texans give a shit about the base of their skis?
    Normally they just ski right into the parking lot.

  11. #11
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    Dry Slope Skiing has a lot of history in the UK and there are a lot of slopes.
    All of them are much smaller than this Texan one....obviously (since EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas as we all know).

    It is like skiing in the same way that Clay Shooting is like wild pheasant shooting.
    They are similar skills, and one is a good training method for the other, but it is no substitute for the real thing.

    Snowflex slides well IF IT IS WET. Let is dry out and it is very slow...and very hot (friction) on your bases. Misting is vital. Racers just love it in the rain, it gets optimal fast. Don't use conventional wax on your bases...some guys use cooking oil, engine grease, all sorts of home recipies.

    To be honest if you were going to go regularly you would want to have an (old) pair of skis that were dedicated to this, it would soon ruin your Bros. Otherwise rent the already ruined skis.

    It is very grippy on your edges, buttering your turns is not an option. Falling hurts!

    In the UK there are really only 3 target markets for dry slopes, who will account for the great majority of revenues.
    Beginners (total beginners) who want to get to grips with skiing before their 1 week vacation.
    Club Racers: lots of inter club competitions.
    Kids Birthday Parties: either on skis or on "donuts" (big inflatable rings) that they slide down on (slopes closed for skiers!).

    Maybe, maybe, if it really is this big then it will get some "destination" tourism. That part I am not convinced.

    To give you an idea of the number of slopes here: I live about 35 miles out of London. Within 1 1/2 hours drive I can think of 7 slopes (but there maybe a couple more), including one which belongs to a local school (but that one is really small!).

    This scheme won't take sliers away from Colorado, if anything the reverse as more Texans get a taste of skiing and then go West.
    Last edited by rungsp; 05-17-2007 at 08:44 AM.

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    I would like to know who the capital investors are because I have a bridge I can sell them in NYC.

    $696 Million - Dumb Asses

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    Quote Originally Posted by rungsp View Post
    To be honest if you were going to go regularly you would want to have an (old) pair of skis that were dedicated to this, it would soon ruin your Bros. Otherwise rent the already ruined skis.
    It's not like a wider waist would help you any on that kind of surface.
    not counting days 2016-17

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    They will probably make it a requirement that you have 4WD to get there, just because.

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    650,000 square feet of skiable surface is 15 acres. I guess Texas has got the space. Remember when Squaw has a dry ski slope, now abandoned, at High Camp ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sftc
    Since when did Texans give a shit about the base of their skis?
    Since they spend all summer working to buy those skis...

    Quote Originally Posted by 72Twenty View Post
    They will probably make it a requirement that you have 4WD to get there, just because.
    And a jacked up f250 with a confederate flag on the back.

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    But will you be able to skin up it for free?

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    I can see it now, a fleet of subarus with rocket boxes and colorado plates converge to jam up the freeway leading to "Bearfire", overheating in the texas heat, rolling over because of armidillo crossings. TWO piece ski suits!

    Then the Texans exclaim...Damn Coloradans!!!!

    Everyfew years someone announces a similar plan as this one. $696 Million is redonkulous! But of course, they are not thinking of just skiing, there will be shopping and condos! Maybe even a Chuck E. Cheese!

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    Exclamation

    Anyone want to post an over/under on skier deaths the first year? My guess 10. non-avy related of course.

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    texans are the straw that stirs the drink around here. with out them spending like they do we'd be screwed.

    midwesterners, on the other hand...
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_gyptian View Post
    midwesterners, on the other hand...
    ....can actually ski!

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    "boobs just make the world better really" - Woodsy

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    Quote Originally Posted by INDY GS View Post
    ....can actually ski!
    no they can't. they can't drive either.
    "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" --Margaret Thatcher

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