Windows Mobile OS Vs. Blackberry

[Tuckerman]

So one of my bosses is in love with her Blackberry but I meet with our Verizon rep and the Treo 700wx Smartphone looks more intuitive for the basic Windows user. Also I think the software will install on Exchange opposed to having to purchase Enterprise for Blackberry. Anyone have any experience with both of these mobile email devices? If so which do you like best? How easy are the Treos with Windows Mobile to set up.

[BallsDeep]

Windows mobile gets my vote. Never had any issues with my blackjack syncing to my calendar, email, etc. since it directly links to our exchange server. I've heard that Rim has had some large connection outages lately, putting people out of touch for hours.

Plus, your reply notes don't have that annoying ass "sent by my blackberry" message...that alone is worth win mobile!

[Tamarack]

Windows mobile gets my vote. Never had any issues with my blackjack syncing to my calendar, email, etc. since it directly links to our exchange server. I've heard that Rim has had some large connection outages lately, putting people out of touch for hours.

Plus, your reply notes don't have that annoying ass "sent by my blackberry" message...that alone is worth win mobile!

Balls, just want to clarify something. You can, in fact, get rid of that annoying "sent by blackberry" message. Comes in very handy for those days working from the beach/mountain...I mean home.

[fonixmunkee]

Plus, your reply notes don't have that annoying ass "sent by my blackberry" message...that alone is worth win mobile!

Hahaha, I do hate that. However, this can be removed by blanking the user's signature box on the BES console.

[Fritz]

I hope the Blackberry is better. I hate my Treo. For incoming work and personal emails and compatibility w/ Office software the Treo works fine, but overall it is bulky and generally slow as shit. Easy to setup though. Sorry I couldn't compare the two.

[fonixmunkee]

I have a Samsung i730 for personal use and a Blackberry 8703e for work. The 8703e is fast and can be used with one hand, which I like. However, it's not touch screen, which I don't like.

The i730 is touch screen, and if you have Windows Mobile 5.0 on it, you can operate it one-handed as well, although it's not as intuitive as the Blackberry. Lots of people like the touch screen thing, and I can say that I probably won't go back now that I have one.

As for the enterprise side of the house, Blackberry service can get spendy (and as someone mentioned, spotty recently). At my organization, we have 18 Blackberry users and we paid out the ass for the Enterprise edition of the BES. On top of that, we manage either data plans or data/voice plans for each. That also gets spendy.

Again, like I said, I use the i730 for personal use, so unfortunately I'm not sure how it works and how the service plans work exactly. From my reading (and possible future experimenting), you have multiple options for syncing a Windows Mobile device with Exchange:

The first (and probably most insecure) is opening up IMAP or POP access on your Exchange box to the outside world. Then if your Windows Mobile user has a data plan, you can configure them to use the server as if they were sitting at their desk and using Outlook. Relatively cheap, but again, also insecure. Possibly a headache to manage as well.

The other option is installing server-side software from Microsoft...but this is contingent upon your network configuration, version of Exchange server, etc. etc. This is much more of a logistical and technical nightmare than the above solution.

In the end, you have to weigh customer functionality against cost, deployment, and management overhead. I think Windows Mobile might be easier on the customer for use, but not worth it if you are in a smaller organization or have a limited network infrastructure/budget. On the flip side, this is where Blackberry shines: it's easy to deploy and manage...so in turn, is relatively cost-effective for organizations. However, I personally believe the Blackberry devices are a little less friendly and functional...and the desktop software drives me NUTS with it's random errors.

Just my thoughts. Good luck on your quest, adventurer!

[jepilot]

I have the Treo 700w, and I absolutely love it. Push technology has made its way to the Treo, and the processor on the 700w is much faster than the 650. The interface is better and the integration with exchange is better.

[RShea]

The Blackberry will need either the desktop redirector (which means your desktop has to be on all the time and running the redirector) or the expensive Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES) on the company server. If you are a typical small business the BES has to be installed on the server and then you can get your mail or the redirector is run for a few users. The Blackberry is a keyboard only device- no touch screen computer, phone and email mainly. It is not a calendar, contacts, and all the other things that a PDA computer can handle easily.

Windows Mobile 5 (and 6 is released but not available on many devices or carriers yet), can be had on a smartphone (phone only not a touchscreen), a phone/PDA with a touch screen (like the Treo 700w) or a PDA only. There are software packages for the computers for standard Office type applications- word processing, spreadsheets, etc. and they sync with the desktop computer- Outlook for contacts, calendar, etc. Email can be set up very easy for anyone running newer Exchange Server versions without the added expense of the Blackberry server software.

So you have to ask what server software do you have running (MS Exchange, Lotus Domino, etc.) and then decide if you want a smartphone or full PDA and phone device. I'd go with the Windows Mobile from all the reasearch I've done so far.

The other issue is the push mail (every time you receive a message on the server or desktop it is also on your phone immediately) vs pull mail solution (which the mobile device is set to go check for messages every x minutes, it connects and poles the server for new messages and downloads any messages received since the last connection- it is not live immediate which can be an important difference for some users.

[RShea]

I have a Samsung i730 for personal use and a Blackberry 8703e for work. The 8703e is fast and can be used with one hand, which I like. However, it's not touch screen, which I don't like.

The i730 is touch screen, and if you have Windows Mobile 5.0 on it, you can operate it one-handed as well, although it's not as intuitive as the Blackberry. Lots of people like the touch screen thing, and I can say that I probably won't go back now that I have one.

As for the enterprise side of the house, Blackberry service can get spendy (and as someone mentioned, spotty recently). At my organization, we have 18 Blackberry users and we paid out the ass for the Enterprise edition of the BES. On top of that, we manage either data plans or data/voice plans for each. That also gets spendy.

Again, like I said, I use the i730 for personal use, so unfortunately I'm not sure how it works and how the service plans work exactly. From my reading (and possible future experimenting), you have multiple options for syncing a Windows Mobile device with Exchange:

The first (and probably most insecure) is opening up IMAP or POP access on your Exchange box to the outside world. Then if your Windows Mobile user has a data plan, you can configure them to use the server as if they were sitting at their desk and using Outlook. Relatively cheap, but again, also insecure. Possibly a headache to manage as well.

The other option is installing server-side software from Microsoft...but this is contingent upon your network configuration, version of Exchange server, etc. etc. This is much more of a logistical and technical nightmare than the above solution.

In the end, you have to weigh customer functionality against cost, deployment, and management overhead. I think Windows Mobile might be easier on the customer for use, but not worth it if you are in a smaller organization or have a limited network infrastructure/budget. On the flip side, this is where Blackberry shines: it's easy to deploy and manage...so in turn, is relatively cost-effective for organizations. However, I personally believe the Blackberry devices are a little less friendly and functional...and the desktop software drives me NUTS with it's random errors.

Just my thoughts. Good luck on your quest, adventurer!

For the most part you are right on the comments, but 2 items- first pop3 mail is really just a pull solution not a push solution, it checks every x minutes for new mail. IMAP can be very high usage rate on an Exchange Server since it has extra work to convert the messages into IMAP. For a small number of users or a very powerful server this is not too big of an issue, but for a high number of mobile users, their could in fact be server performance issues for Microsoft Exchange at least handling all the IMAP messages.

Newer Exchange Server editions and Small Business Server with Exchange have the support for push email to a Windows Mobile phone built in- you just open the ports and do the configuration and set up the phones.

[jerr]

I understand why people find these so valuable but I even dislike a mobile in my pocket. So I choose to have neither.

Having said that I'll probably end up with one over the next few years. So I'll add an element to this discussion if I may. Which one of these gadgets has the better feel good quality? I'll happily do without some capabilities in favour of a more pleasing experience.

Ta

[fonixmunkee]

For the most part you are right on the comments, but 2 items- first pop3 mail is really just a pull solution not a push solution, it checks every x minutes for new mail. IMAP can be very high usage rate on an Exchange Server since it has extra work to convert the messages into IMAP. For a small number of users or a very powerful server this is not too big of an issue, but for a high number of mobile users, their could in fact be server performance issues for Microsoft Exchange at least handling all the IMAP messages.

Newer Exchange Server editions and Small Business Server with Exchange have the support for push email to a Windows Mobile phone built in- you just open the ports and do the configuration and set up the phones.

Well, there yah go. Thanks for filling in blanks.

Which one of these gadgets has the better feel good quality?

At least with a Windows Mobile device you get both Solitaire AND Bubblebreaker. Blackberries only come with Brickbreaker.

[Free Range Lobster]

From the support side, if you have to deal with Active Sync and Windows Mobile? Just kill yourself. Or quit your job. Right now.

Blackberry on the other hand hasn't been so bad. Usually just a software reinstall and its done and fixed.

[Tuckerman]

To add something to my situation right now we use pop accounts. I have never worked in an IT department where the organization used pop accounts. So I did put an Exchange 2007 server in my budget which has been approved. And I hate using my Blackberry in phone mode. Thanks all I think that Windows Mobile will make some of the more tech savvy users happy. And Windows Mobile will give me a new toy to play with.

[RShea]

From the support side, if you have to deal with Active Sync and Windows Mobile? Just kill yourself. Or quit your job. Right now.

Blackberry on the other hand hasn't been so bad. Usually just a software reinstall and its done and fixed.

But what about all your desktop PC or server based contacts, calendar etc. You really do not have to sync the phone if all you are doing is having it do the push email, it will have the same messages on it as the desktop. The sync comes in for installing software on it (blackberry really can't install new stuff, it is what it is) and do things a real computer may be able to handle. That being said, the small screen and keyboard are an issue for truly mobile workers.

[RShea]

To add something to my situation right now we use pop accounts. I have never worked in an IT department where the organization used pop accounts. So I did put an Exchange 2007 server in my budget which has been approved. And I hate using my Blackberry in phone mode. Thanks all I think that Windows Mobile will make some of the more tech savvy users happy. And Windows Mobile will give me a new toy to play with.

If all you are doing is pop3 mail from a web host, then the first step is to get your own mail server running. Otherwise you can pretty much use any device to pull mail from the web host or ISP but as noted it is every x minutes vs the immediate push mail of your own server sending the messages the same time it receives them.

[Sinecure]

Tucks,

I do a lot of work with both platforms (and ironically, have a Treo 700p for personal use). We do a lot of consulting work focused on the BB and WM platforms. My business partner has a BB and uses it with the BIS (internet server - we are tiny and don't have a BES or Exchange server here).

Both platforms will deal with POP mail no problem. WM has gotten much more stable in the last year. It used to need rebooting routinely and had all sorts of other issues. Also, WM is getting better at battery management, although their version of "push" still isn't nearly as efficient as BB's. If you are getting an Exchange server, and don't have budget for your own BES, that may help make the decision.

Part of your decision may come down to applications. What are you looking to run on these devices? Both BB and WM have good partner/developer ecosystems. BB probably does a better job of supporting and promoting their partners, but the WM partner list is growing rapidly and they are working very hard to make it top-notch. Since you are in the US, foreign support probably isn't an issue for you (Microsoft is going to win that battle in the near-ish future). If you were, Nokia would figure into your calculation.

Both are good choices. Palm OS unfortunately probably isn't. You get a wide choice of devices with WM, and perhaps slightly better device stability with BB (plus a very clean support path if you have problems). Both have decent UI's. Right now BB probably has slightly better support and availability of 3rd party applications, although that gap is closing and I suspect we'll see rough parity w/in 12 months.

You won't really have a problem with whichever decision you make. You avoid the BES by going WM, but perhaps make a little more work for yourself in the near term. WM will give you a good UI and an increasing number of applications.

Caveat: My company derives a significant portion of its revenue from work we do for Microsoft. I like to think we don't allow this to bias our opinions, but since we learn a lot about what they are doing, I felt you should know this as part of my advice. Should you choose WM and ever find yourself in a position of really needing a connection at MS to resolve an issue, just ping me and I'll see what I can do to help. Oh, and people shouldn't bother asking me for pre-release info about MS products/services. Even if I did know, we have strict NDAs that wouldn't allow me to tell you anyway.

[Tuckerman]

Tucks,

I do a lot of work with both platforms (and ironically, have a Treo 700p for personal use). We do a lot of consulting work focused on the BB and WM platforms. My business partner has a BB and uses it with the BIS (internet server - we are tiny and don't have a BES or Exchange server here).

Both platforms will deal with POP mail no problem. WM has gotten much more stable in the last year. It used to need rebooting routinely and had all sorts of other issues. Also, WM is getting better at battery management, although their version of "push" still isn't nearly as efficient as BB's. If you are getting an Exchange server, and don't have budget for your own BES, that may help make the decision.

Part of your decision may come down to applications. What are you looking to run on these devices? Both BB and WM have good partner/developer ecosystems. BB probably does a better job of supporting and promoting their partners, but the WM partner list is growing rapidly and they are working very hard to make it top-notch. Since you are in the US, foreign support probably isn't an issue for you (Microsoft is going to win that battle in the near-ish future). If you were, Nokia would figure into your calculation.

Both are good choices. Palm OS unfortunately probably isn't. You get a wide choice of devices with WM, and perhaps slightly better device stability with BB (plus a very clean support path if you have problems). Both have decent UI's. Right now BB probably has slightly better support and availability of 3rd party applications, although that gap is closing and I suspect we'll see rough parity w/in 12 months.

You won't really have a problem with whichever decision you make. You avoid the BES by going WM, but perhaps make a little more work for yourself in the near term. WM will give you a good UI and an increasing number of applications.

Caveat: My company derives a significant portion of its revenue from work we do for Microsoft. I like to think we don't allow this to bias our opinions, but since we learn a lot about what they are doing, I felt you should know this as part of my advice. Should you choose WM and ever find yourself in a position of really needing a connection at MS to resolve an issue, just ping me and I'll see what I can do to help. Oh, and people shouldn't bother asking me for pre-release info about MS products/services. Even if I did know, we have strict NDAs that wouldn't allow me to tell you anyway.

I am getting Exchange server 2007 and I do like new shiny toys that I don't pay for. Thanks man.

[RShea]

Tucks,

I do a lot of work with both platforms (and ironically, have a Treo 700p for personal use). We do a lot of consulting work focused on the BB and WM platforms. My business partner has a BB and uses it with the BIS (internet server - we are tiny and don't have a BES or Exchange server here).

Both platforms will deal with POP mail no problem. WM has gotten much more stable in the last year. It used to need rebooting routinely and had all sorts of other issues. Also, WM is getting better at battery management, although their version of "push" still isn't nearly as efficient as BB's. If you are getting an Exchange server, and don't have budget for your own BES, that may help make the decision.

Part of your decision may come down to applications. What are you looking to run on these devices? Both BB and WM have good partner/developer ecosystems. BB probably does a better job of supporting and promoting their partners, but the WM partner list is growing rapidly and they are working very hard to make it top-notch. Since you are in the US, foreign support probably isn't an issue for you (Microsoft is going to win that battle in the near-ish future). If you were, Nokia would figure into your calculation.

Both are good choices. Palm OS unfortunately probably isn't. You get a wide choice of devices with WM, and perhaps slightly better device stability with BB (plus a very clean support path if you have problems). Both have decent UI's. Right now BB probably has slightly better support and availability of 3rd party applications, although that gap is closing and I suspect we'll see rough parity w/in 12 months.

You won't really have a problem with whichever decision you make. You avoid the BES by going WM, but perhaps make a little more work for yourself in the near term. WM will give you a good UI and an increasing number of applications.

Caveat: My company derives a significant portion of its revenue from work we do for Microsoft. I like to think we don't allow this to bias our opinions, but since we learn a lot about what they are doing, I felt you should know this as part of my advice. Should you choose WM and ever find yourself in a position of really needing a connection at MS to resolve an issue, just ping me and I'll see what I can do to help. Oh, and people shouldn't bother asking me for pre-release info about MS products/services. Even if I did know, we have strict NDAs that wouldn't allow me to tell you anyway.

Palm OS is definitely loosing market share fast. It has been around longer than the Windows or BB though and has quite a few specialty developers still for line of business applications that keep it going. I have a customer that uses them with a push mail solution - it just takes a few 3rd party add-in apps to make them complete with push mail and compete with the Windows Mobile. They also have a higher resolution screen on the 700p than the 700w Windows does as one other plus. It also is a true computer, like the Windows Mobile not just a phone and email device. That being said you are right about the rest of your comments.

If there is something that you want to run on the PDA (like some industry specific software) then the one to choose is the one that handles that job the best. If it is just a general device and play thing, then look at the cost, what it can do out of the box without anything else, added. Also look at the server side and see what would be the easiest to implement unless you have an IT department and budget.

[grskier]

I don't have much to compare to, but I have the TREO 700WX and my only complaint would be size (which I'm not helping with this metal case). The fact that it runs windows (same as my office PC which it synchs to) makes life super easy.

[Fritz]

From the support side, if you have to deal with Active Sync and Windows Mobile? Just kill yourself. Or quit your job. Right now.

Seconded. Fucking Active Sync

Get the Treo 700w if you like having to take out your battery 3 times a day.

[summit]

screw blackberry

screw windows mobile

get palm based systems... do everything windows mobile can and more

(i use a neutered windows mobile 5.0 on a Q)

[RShea]

screw blackberry

screw windows mobile

get palm based systems... do everything windows mobile can and more

(i use a neutered windows mobile 5.0 on a Q)

Push email on a Palm is not as easy to do with Exchange as it is on the Windows Mobile devices. Only solution that I came up with was a third party Mail application installed on the phone instead of the VersaMail or whatever the standard built in mail package is called on the Palm.