price of gas

[tommyvee]

Why do you people from Europe constantly think you know what's right for Americans?

If you haven't noticed, our country is a touch bigger than whatever socialist tiny piece of land you live in.

I live at 9000+ above sea level, and I travel over passes that are 11,000 feet+ with a 10,000 lb trailer. Tell me that I could get away with a "panel van".

The "socialist tiny piece of land " that I live in is Boulder. But I have spent a lot of time in Euroland. Maybe you are part of the 0.5% that "needs" a big rig, but 52% do not "need" that SUV/pickup that they own.

I am happy that gas prices are going up and the many people who made selfish and anti-social choices to buy gas-guzzlers will experience a negative consequence. If drivers paid the full cost of the pollution and other externalities they generate, US gas prices would be higher than Europe's.

As peak oil and climate change start to bite, the resale value on gas pigs will plummet, punishing people who make foolish choices.

[detroit]

I can't seem to get away from this thread.

Our(my) ancestors came here to get the fuck out of yurp.
I can guess it was so they could decide for themselves what they need and what they want instead of having some bitter cry baby deciding for them. I think they wanted to do more than "get by".

[tommyvee]

I can't seem to get away from this thread.

Our(my) ancestors came here to get the fuck out of yurp.
I can guess it was so they could decide for themselves what they need and what they want instead of having some bitter cry baby deciding for them. I think they wanted to do more than "get by".

The "cry babies" are the fools who bought gas guzzlers and now blame enviro-whackos and islamofascists for the market forces of supply and demand, and espouse stupid crackpot one-day boycotts. Reality is a harsh educator. If the US keeps making stupid decisions to piss its' wealth away importing increasingly expensive oil, no Big Daddy will come around to rescue us. The dollar is dropping like a rock, making every US citizen more impoverished in real terms, no matter how many pieces of green paper you have, each piece buys less than it did last year.

Today my wife and I went for a very pleasant bike ride up Boulder canyon and Four-Mile and found nothing to cry about. My block has about 8 less SUVs and 8 more Prius (Prii?) than last year. Stupid people will piss their wealth away while crying, and smart people will adapt.

[Blurred]

The "cry babies" are the fools who bought gas guzzlers and now blame enviro-whackos and islamofascists for the market forces of supply and demand, and espouse stupid crackpot one-day boycotts. Reality is a harsh educator. If the US keeps making stupid decisions to piss its' wealth away importing increasingly expensive oil, no Big Daddy will come around to rescue us. The dollar is dropping like a rock, making every US citizen more impoverished in real terms, no matter how many pieces of green paper you have, each piece buys less than it did last year.

Today my wife and I went for a very pleasant bike ride up Boulder canyon and Four-Mile and found nothing to cry about. My block has about 8 less SUVs and 8 more Prius (Prii?) than last year. Stupid people will piss their wealth away while crying, and smart people will adapt.

I'm really tired of hippy douches saying prices are high because of supply and demand. Prices are high because of the brainwashing that's been put on you that suv's are ruining the world and we should all be punished at the pump while oil companies keep making record breaking profits.
People like you think it's great, and ride around on your bike like you're fucking something special. How about you quit having kids? That's the real solution, not raising gas prices. You act like you care about the Earth so much, when in fact all you care about is being ashamed about being the consumer human being you are. The Earth will always be here much longer than us, you're just hoping to prolong your time of raping it.

[tommyvee]

I'm really tired of hippy douches saying prices are high because of supply and demand. Prices are high because of the brainwashing that's been put on you that suv's are ruining the world and we should all be punished at the pump while oil companies keep making record breaking profits.
People like you think it's great, and ride around on your bike like you're fucking something special. How about you quit having kids? That's the real solution, not raising gas prices. You act like you care about the Earth so much, when in fact all you care about is being ashamed about being the consumer human being you are. The Earth will always be here much longer than us, you're just hoping to prolong your time of raping it.

"Supply and demand drive up gas prices, experts tell Senate
May 15, 2007

By JUSTIN HYDE

FREE PRESS WASHINGTON BUREAU

Record high U.S. gas prices stem from a lack of refinery capacity and not price gouging, witnesses told a U.S. Senate committee on Tuesday, adding that more efficient vehicles could help reduce demand for gasoline.

Gas prices hit another daily record Tuesday, averaging $3.087 a gallon nationally and $3.285 in the Detroit area, according to AAA’s daily survey of 85,000 gas stations. Prices have risen steadily for the past month despite relative stability in crude oil prices, which have held around $63 a barrel.

Paul Sankey, an energy analyst and managing director of Deutsche Bank, told the Senate Energy and Natural Resources committee that oil refinery accidents and years of low capital spending by refiners had left the United States with about 30% less refinery capacity than demand, forcing more expensive imports to make up the shortfall.

With an unusually low 20 days’ worth of gasoline, Sankey said there could be a gasoline emergency this summer. He said refiners were trying to add new capacity, but the lack of activity in previous years had left them with short supplies of engineers for doing so.

“There isn’t enough staff, there isn’t enough steel, there isn’t enough ability to add the capacity at the right rate of return,” Sankey said. “It’s easier said than done.”

Several senators questioned whether oil companies had manipulated prices to sweeten profits, but none of the witnesses backed that view. Several investigations of gas prices nationwide have failed to find widespread evidence of price fixing over the past few years.

“The main driving forces in this market are fundamental supply and demand,” said Guy Caruso, administrator of the U.S. Energy Information Agency.

A couple of panelists suggested that higher prices could help moderate demand for gasoline, especially through consumers buying more fuel-efficient vehicles.

“If you can lower demand here, you can look at it as adding capacity for free on the supply side, and that’s what the oil companies are terrified of,” Sankey said. "

[Jer]

... you're just hoping to prolong your time of raping it.

Speak for yourself, planet rapist.

Claiming that everyone else is as amoral as you are is a pretty poor way of dealing with your guilt.

[uglymoney]

"
“The main driving forces in this market are fundamental supply and demand,” said Guy Caruso, administrator of the U.S. Energy Information Agency.

A couple of panelists suggested that higher prices could help moderate demand for gasoline, especially through consumers buying more fuel-efficient vehicles.

“If you can lower demand here, you can look at it as adding capacity for free on the supply side, and that’s what the oil companies are terrified of,” Sankey said. "

Exactly.

This is all so fucking stupid. We are giving all our money to oil company executives and foreign dictators in order to stem demand. Americans and our politicians are sometimes such a collective bunch of retards.

A gas tax would accomplish exactly the same lower demand for unleaded and if our politicians would get their heads out of their collective asses this tax revenue could flow directly back into the back pockets of even the most belligerent gas guzzling advocates.

Its so plain jane obvious even now yet nobody will utter a peep because the word 'tax' has been made evil by the same numbskull propagandists who consider corporate welfare a necessary tool of political longevity.

[tommyvee]

Funny how people that rail against "socialists" get all upset about the normal workings of a market economy.
The oil companies know that worldwide oil production will be peaking in the next decade (maybe already, has been flat for a few years), so investing in a new refinery with a 20 year payback does not make economic sense. So they will not do it. Rationing a scarce commodity by price increases to moderate demand is how market economies handle all goods, not just energy. Price increases or decreases until demand matches supply, whether for gas or bubble gum. Supply and demand elasticity determine the shapes of the curves and therefore the point of intersection. Every business charges as much as the market will bear, given the dangers of losing market share to undercutting competitors. The reason that gas prices are high is that both supply and demand elasticity are low (more dollars does not produce more oil or less drivers).
I agree that population is the central environmental issue, but one US citizen consumes as much energy as 50 Nepalis, so US population has many times the environmental impact. I had 2 kids and a vasectomy, so as a non-breeder you probably have a smaller total footprint than I do, assuming you don't slip up and breed inadvertently.
I was riding my bike when gas cost 30 cents/gal and I'll keep riding as long as I can.Sharing the road with fewer pickups and SUVs is all to the good.

[Rontele]

Funny how people that rail against "socialists" get all upset about the normal workings of a market economy.
The oil companies know that worldwide oil production will be peaking in the next decade (maybe already, has been flat for a few years), so investing in a new refinery with a 20 year payback does not make economic sense. So they will not do it. Rationing a scarce commodity by price increases to moderate demand is how market economies handle all goods, not just energy. Price increases or decreases until demand matches supply, whether for gas or bubble gum. Supply and demand elasticity determine the shapes of the curves and therefore the point of intersection. Every business charges as much as the market will bear, given the dangers of losing market share to undercutting competitors. The reason that gas prices are high is that both supply and demand elasticity are low (more dollars does not produce more oil or less drivers).
I agree that population is the central environmental issue, but one US citizen consumes as much energy as 50 Nepalis, so US population has many times the environmental impact. I had 2 kids and a vasectomy, so as a non-breeder you probably have a smaller total footprint than I do, assuming you don't slip up and breed inadvertently.
I was riding my bike when gas cost 30 cents/gal and I'll keep riding as long as I can.Sharing the road with fewer pickups and SUVs is all to the good.

Yeah and people in Nepal live in practically the Stone Age. I cannot imagine not being able to get a Big Mac through a drive through, in a lifted F-350 V10.

[StoneCold]

I didn't read every post. High gas prices suck.

But, for $820 a year I'll drive my Silverado over a Subaru any day.

What are you talking about StoneCold?

12,000 miles a year at 18mpg in my '99 Silverado means I need to buy 666 gallons of gas.

666 gallons of gas at $4/gal will cost me $2666.

If I get a '99 Subaru Forester I will go 12000 miles on 461.5 gallons of gas. Those 461.5 gallons will cost me $1846.

That is a difference of $820 a year, or $68 month.

[Tippster]

That is a difference of $820 a year, or $68 month.

Or a flight and hotel for a week at your ski area of choice.

Why exactly do you prefer the Silverado? It does not, in fact, make your dick look longer....

[Jer]

Interesting. I've gotten used to people treating the environment as valueless and refusing to donate a cent to its care.

But I don't think I've seen many who would cough up $68 a month for the pleasure of damaging it.

Or do you donate that much to the Sierra Club every month too?

Anyway, since high gas prices suck, you like burning gas, and more refineries are the answer - how 'bout we build one upwind and upstream of your home, business, lands and community?

Not a new, clean regulated one - too expensive, and besides, regulations are evil and un-American.

No, I mean an old, cheaply built, no-safeguards hellzone, leaking everything from tar to benzene into the water table and streams, flaring off half-burnt solvents all night, occasionally dumping a tankload of toxins on the road in front of your business or on the neighborhood schoolyard.

No? Not so keen on that idea? Oh, I see. You want it built somewhere else. So you can have your cheap gas to burn for the pleasure of it. While others (preferably poor people somewhere far away) suffer the health and environmental consequences. And you expect the refinery builder to eat the loss for the stupid investment to boot.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

[Blurred]

Interesting. I've gotten used to people treating the environment as valueless and refusing to donate a cent to its care.

But I don't think I've seen many who would cough up $68 a month for the pleasure of damaging it.

Or do you donate that much to the Sierra Club every month too?

Anyway, since high gas prices suck, you like burning gas, and more refineries are the answer - how 'bout we build one upwind and upstream of your home, business, lands and community?

Not a new, clean regulated one - too expensive, and besides, regulations are evil and un-American.

No, I mean an old, cheaply built, no-safeguards hellzone, leaking everything from tar to benzene into the water table and streams, flaring off half-burnt solvents all night, occasionally dumping a tankload of toxins on the road in front of your business or on the neighborhood schoolyard.

No? Not so keen on that idea? Oh, I see. You want it built somewhere else. So you can have your cheap gas to burn for the pleasure of it. While others (preferably poor people somewhere far away) suffer the health and environmental consequences. And you expect the refinery builder to eat the loss for the stupid investment to boot.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

So says the douche posting on a computer that is most likely supplied by coal powered electric. Quit being such a self-righteous douche, DW.

[Jer]

So says the douche posting on a computer that is most likely supplied by coal powered electric. Quit being such a self-righteous douche, DW.

Wrong as usual.

It would comfort you so much if everyone was as much a douche as you, wouldn't it.

Wind power.

[Blurred]

Wrong as usual.

It would comfort you so much if everyone was as much a douche as you, wouldn't it.

Wind power.

Prove it.

And the aesthetics of your power are of the highest douchebaggery anyhow.

[MeatPuppet]

I am happy that gas prices are going up and the many people who made selfish and anti-social choices to buy gas-guzzlers will experience a negative consequence.

You remind me of the sick religious zealots I grew up around who would look at anybody struggling and say that it was their own fault because they had made selfish choices rather than following "God's way".

They too had this same smug self righteousness that oozes from your posts.

Today my wife and I went for a very pleasant bike ride up Boulder canyon and Four-Mile and found nothing to cry about. My block has about 8 less SUVs and 8 more Prius (Prii?) than last year. Stupid people will piss their wealth away while crying, and smart people will adapt.

[StoneCold]

Or a flight and hotel for a week at your ski area of choice.

Why exactly do you prefer the Silverado? It does not, in fact, make your dick look longer....

I live 15 minutes from the ski area of my choice

I prefer the Silverado because of the utility. In the past 2.5 years I've had two Honda Accords, a 4Runner and the Silverado. The Accords were great on gas. The 4Runner was ok overall, but a little cramped in the front seats. But, the Silverado has been the most useful to me. In the last 10 days I've made two dump runs, one for work and one for personal reasons. None of the stuff I took the dump (on either trip) would've fit in the Accords or the 4Runner. Also in the past 10 days I've helped a co-worker who does not have a car (due to finances) move an entertainment center to his house. Recently I've also let a friend borrow my truck who had to move sports equipment inventory from his office to his warehouse. Dirty lawnmower hits a rock, busts the blade and bends the shaft, easiest way to get it to the repair shop without having to hose it off to fit in the trunk of a car is to put it in the back of my truck. That also happened in the last 10 days.

I also prefer the Silverado because I like to offroad. I've got a older Samurai trail rig that is not worthy of the highway, only the trails. Towing the Samurai to Moab with the Accord would be impossible. With the Silverado I can tow the Samurai to Moab no problem, and put my bike and other crap in the bed.

It just seems to allow me to get more done.

[StoneCold]

Or do you donate that much to the Sierra Club every month too?

I don't donate anything to the Sierra Club.

Anyway, since high gas prices suck, you like burning gas, and more refineries are the answer - how 'bout we build one upwind and upstream of your home, business, lands and community?

Not a new, clean regulated one - too expensive, and besides, regulations are evil and un-American.

No, I mean an old, cheaply built, no-safeguards hellzone, leaking everything from tar to benzene into the water table and streams, flaring off half-burnt solvents all night, occasionally dumping a tankload of toxins on the road in front of your business or on the neighborhood schoolyard.

No? Not so keen on that idea? Oh, I see. You want it built somewhere else. So you can have your cheap gas to burn for the pleasure of it. While others (preferably poor people somewhere far away) suffer the health and environmental consequences. And you expect the refinery builder to eat the loss for the stupid investment to boot.

Talk about a sense of entitlement.

I think your response is a result of you combining my post with other people's arguments.

I'd love to run on cleaner fuel. If I ever come across an older diesel pick up and some land to make it happen, I'd look closely at running vegetable oil diesel.

But I don't like people only blaming trucks and SUVs. 18mpg for my truck or 27mpg for a Subaru seem pretty close. Either find a solution for all vehicles or let me drive my truck in peace while I pay $80 each time to fill it up.

[MeatPuppet]

That's some good shit boy. Or should I say Mr Cheney? Since you sound like you have some micro and macro knowledge, can you say cartel?

Don't change the subject. The structure of the oil industry is the same now as it was 7 years ago when gas was a lot cheaper. So you can't blame the structure of the industry for the price increase. Nothing appreciable has changed, in the way the industry is organization, that would cause prices to rise like they have.

If, on the other hand, new refineries had been built in the last 30 years there would be a greater supply of gas available today and the price would not be as high as it is. Why were no new refineries built in the last 30 years? You guessed it, confiscatory environmental regulations made it more economically feasible to make existing refineries more efficient rather than build new ones.

So we are left with less refinery capacity than we would otherwise have. Which translates to less supply, which translates to higher prices at the pump.

So, thank you, you , knee-jerk, environmental zealots
This kills me too, because I support the goal of most environmentalists. But their methods and their chosen path to reach their goals are misguided and, many times, introduce unnecessary friction into society.

I don't think ExxonMobil is complaining too much about numerous record setting financial closes...record setting for all American companies, not solely oil.

The oil companies make less per dollar of income than most American companies. Their record profits have come from shear volume. We've been over this ad nauseam.

[Crass3000]

This is not snow related. bring it to the padded room you fucking suedo-JONGs. Everybody is bitching about all the NSR crap in SKI/Snowboard but they keep posting.

Looks like Blurred can't read the forum catagories.

[tommyvee]

If, on the other hand, new refineries had been built in the last 30 years there would be a greater supply of gas available today and the price would not be as high as it is. Why were no new refineries built in the last 30 years? You guessed it, confiscatory environmental regulations made it more economically feasible to make existing refineries more efficient rather than build new ones.

So we are left with less refinery capacity than we would otherwise have. Which translates to less supply, which translates to higher prices at the pump.

So, thank you, you , knee-jerk, environmental zealots
This kills me too, because I support the goal of most environmentalists. But their methods and their chosen path to reach their goals are misguided and, many times, introduce unnecessary friction into society.
.

I've read this thoughtless BS about enviros stopping refineries and a moment of thought proves what total BS it is.
If there was profit to made building refineries, then investors would be building them in Mexico, where regulations and enviros are non-existent and then piping/trucking the gasoline to the US. But they do not, because there are better uses for investment capital. Have you seen the maquiladoras? Guaranteed that enviros have no power over industry in Mexico.

For that matter, have you been to Houston?That place is just run by the almighty enviros, and the oil business guys struggle under terrible oppresion, with no politiical power at all (sarcasm alert). Probably I missed the headlines about the political upset when the enviros took political power in Texas away from oil company insiders. That Bush guy was such a puppet of the enviros when he was running Texas that he personally stopped refinery construction, because he just hates the oil industry. And that Cheney guy is such a raving enviro with no understanding of the desperated needs of the oil industry.

How does someone convince themselves to believe such obvious BS and propaganda?

[philippeR]

Why do you people from Europe constantly think you know what's right for Americans?

If you haven't noticed, our country is a touch bigger than whatever socialist tiny piece of land you live in.

I live at 9000+ above sea level, and I travel over passes that are 11,000 feet+ with a 10,000 lb trailer. Tell me that I could get away with a "panel van".

You can. How do you think they do in the Alps ?
It's just that european engines are much more efficient than the piece of outdated american crap you call a truck.

[sledneckripper]

Today my wife and I went for a very pleasant bike ride up Boulder canyon and Four-Mile and found nothing to cry about. My block has about 8 less SUVs and 8 more Prius (Prii?) than last year. Stupid people will piss their wealth away while crying, and smart people will adapt.

Shut your pie hole ya damn hippy! Today I went for a ride on my 2-stroke sled and burnt some carbon into the atmosphere and found nothing to cry about. My block has about 8 more sleds and pickups and 8 less corn fed hippies than it did last year.

[haydukelives]

supply is controlled by the arabs. opec lowers it as needed to keep prices up.
we could affect that by dropping our use 10%or less.
demand is up as china dumps the bicycle for cars. try not to buy chinese as much as possible
the spot price has a lot to do with the price at the pump. any iranian or venezuelan can increase fear of reduced supply.
all of us could cut back 10% without buying anything. if we did , the suppliers would try to sell more to fill their wallets and prices would drop alot.

[doughboyshredder]

The dollar is dropping like a rock, making every US citizen more impoverished in real terms, no matter how many pieces of green paper you have, each piece buys less than it did last year.

My block has about 8 less SUVs and 8 more Prius (Prii?) than last year.

Stupid people will piss their wealth away while crying, and smart people will adapt.

I couldn't pass this one up.

Every US citizen is more impoversished?

Everyone I know is doing great. We work HARD and are rewarded for it. Opportunity is everywhere. So are lazy people that won't work for it.

As far as the US Dollar dropping, there are many factors to that, which I don't claim to fully understand.

Prii are popping up everywhere because of the laws of supply and demand. Another beauty of capitalism.

Why not "piss your wealth away"? Hopefully in a somewhat responsible fashion.

The rising price of gas is a good thing for the environment, and probably the economy. It sucks for those of us that rely on our trucks to tow and haul on a daily basis, but it is forcing the US to finally get serious about alternative energy resources.

Today I will burn about 40.00 of gas. Next truck might have to be a converted Diesel. Just don't know how they do in freezing temps.