How to stop a gunman.....?

[Crass3000]

This message is hidden because spook is on your ignore list.

He never really has anything to add anyway.

He never has anything rational to say except that he hates the US and all it's systems. He's sooo intellegent cause you knows what systems are. Spook, I was into hardcore anarchist punk (friends that squatted, etc -- not the bubble-gum bullshit) for 10 years and still listen to it 10 years after that -- your an idiot if you think I have no grasp on systems. But you wouldn't realize that because your an arrogant, pompous idiot.

[mday]

the flaw in your "logic" here is that CCW holders comit crimes at rates that are not even really comprable to your average citizen.

You don't really believe that if you dramatically increase the number of permit holders that they group will continue to behave in an above average manner do you? I'm no expert on how they're currently selected, but I would have to think that a whole bunch of screening takes place. If the permit holders are extended to include basically any kid on campus that wants to carry a gun, you're not going to see much separation in the crime statistics between permit holders and average citizens.

[The AD]

What matters is living, nothing else.

I agree. This subject was on a radio show I was listening to a couple days back and one of the callers said "Someone should have rushed him. He can't shoot everyone, after all." Well, maybe, but the point is you don't want him to shoot you. Sorry, but most people are going to consider their own safety first and foremost. You're chances of living are better by seeking some kind of cover or getting the out of there (if possible) then by rushing the guy.

[Crass3000]

Crass - What level of proof or evidence would you require to execute someone?

Not much... I guess I'm at the point where they get the same fair treatment they give us. If a few innocents are taken out that is unfortunate but war isn't about being PC. Being PC is why countries loose wars.

That is absurd. EVERYONE deserves fair trials. Your suggestion basically makes any accused terrorist a convicted terrorist.

Please read above... I guess you'll have to think I'm an idiot -- plenty of people around here do. But I am not an apoligist for my beliefs. I wish there was a better way to sort out innocent from the real bad guys but this is war and war has never been as pretty and PC as it is today. People from generations ago would look at what we do and how we whine about rights for our enemies and wonder if we are nuts. We essentially (politicians and media)beat ourselves in most recent wars. It's not our military's inability if given proper resources.

[StoneCold]

I agree, allowing students to carry concealed weapons will prevent a complete lunatic from shooting 30+ people at a time. We seem to have these type of horrific tragedies every 5-10 years in this country.

In it's place, we'll substitute thousands of students killed, one at a time, because a jilted lover, or angry drunk, or kid with suicidal impulse had a gun at hand. I struggle to understand how anyone that supports this idea can really believe that it will reduce the death toll. Sure, every blue moon, a bad guy will get what's coming to him. The rest of the time, another young person with their whole life ahead of htem will have it ended suddenly. It's not only Europeans that are baffled by this kind of "logic".

One thing to think about is that even though you give the people (in this case the students) the right to carry, I'm guessing only a handful would.

If one or two people out of thirty had been carrying, this may have been less of a bloodbath.

[Mcwop]

I agree. This subject was on a radio show I was listening to a couple days back and one of the callers said "Someone should have rushed him. He can't shoot everyone, after all." Well, maybe, but the point is you don't want him to shoot you. Sorry, but most people are going to consider their own safety first and foremost. You're chances of living are better by seeking some kind of cover or getting the out of there (if possible) then by rushing the guy.

Absent cover, closing the distance may be better cover.

[truckeelocal]

You don't really believe that if you dramatically increase the number of permit holders that they group will continue to behave in an above average manner do you? I'm no expert on how they're currently selected, but I would have to think that a whole bunch of screening takes place. If the permit holders are extended to include basically any kid on campus that wants to carry a gun, you're not going to see much separation in the crime statistics between permit holders and average citizens.

You know that's taking stuff to it's logical, but absurd, conclusion. To paraphrase, if everyone has a concealed gun and no one doesn't have a concealed gun then the average of the gunless won't count.

Except are you sure no one will be unarmed ? Gun contol is in effect for convicted felons, (some) mentally disturbed, illegal aliens, fetuses and infants (it's a practical matter 'til we make guns small enough to fit in their little hands).

[The AD]

Absent cover, closing the distance may be better cover.

Possibly true, but do you think you would realize that during the situation?

[natty dread]

Personally I'm not worried about fair trials, habeus corpus, and torture for people, at least at the higher levels, involved in terrorism. I would have no problem being employed as the executioner down at Guantanamo. I could be judge, jury, and executioner and sleep well every night. I'm not concerned with the rights of people who, in general, want to wipe me off the face of this earth so that they can spread their form of Islam.

It's funny, I looked up "obtuse" in the dictionary today and there was crass's picture right next to the definition.
There was also a picture of him on the web next to the definition of "sheeple." Interesting.
Keep talking fucktard, it's actually kind of fun to see what your next idiotic post will be. Not quite ready to put ya on ignore yet.

[Mcwop]

Possibly true, but do you think you would realize that during the situation?

Me possibly, but only because I do it 2-3 times a week in my martial arts classes. With that said, most would not. Better option is run and/or cover. The other is a last resort.

Once jumped out of a moving car to break up a mugging, but I stopped to see if they had a weapon. If one was present I would have run for help, instead of trying to subdue one of the guys. The guy I tried to subdue did not fight back, but used get away as his option.

[mday]

Except are you sure no one will be unarmed ? Gun contol is in effect for convicted felons, (some) mentally disturbed, illegal aliens, fetuses and infants (it's a practical matter 'til we make guns small enough to fit in their little hands).

I'm sure that some will be unarmed. What I'm also fairly sure of is that if you allow the average college student the choice of carrying concealed weapons to campus, there will be enough collateral damage to make 33 deaths every 5 years seem like a very small number.

[PNWbrit]

Not much... I guess I'm at the point where they get the same fair treatment they give us

For the sake of argument suppose I don't like you very much and just for shits and giggles I call the FBI and tell them that your wife is a terrorist. They say her name is similar to one on a list and are on their way to go get her. She'll spend several years in a secret prison often being held under water until she answers their questions in an acceptable manner.

While there won't be very much or perhaps even any evidence against her at the sham of trial she'll receive. Under your conditions it'll be enough for you to execte her when the time comes. Right?

so what if a few innocents are taken?

[Crass3000]

It's funny, I looked up "obtuse" in the dictionary today and there was crass's picture right next to the definition.
There was also a picture of him on the web next to the definition of "sheeple." Interesting.
Keep talking fucktard, it's actually kind of fun to see what your next idiotic post will be. Not quite ready to put ya on ignore yet.

Natty, as usual you never have anything of importance to say except sling insults. You're the tool of all tools -- and to what I've seen in the last year you have no original thought of your own. As usual I feel good knowing that people like you disagree with me -- if you agreed with me there would likely be something wrong with my thought patterns.

So what is it that makes you so smart Natty? You make comments but never have anything to say besides insults. You actually sound like a moron if you asked me but I'm holding out hope that you have something intelligent to say -- I know I'll be holding my breath for that though.

Please don't put me on your ignore list. When you scold me I know I am frustrating you.

[truckeelocal]

Are the non-US residents getting a clue yet ? The US is a violent place full of gun-toting individuals spoiling for a fight. And our skiing isn't as big as yours (Europe anyway) Don't poach an American's line on a power day. Just saying.

[spook]

This message is hidden because spook is on your ignore list.

He never really has anything to add anyway.

He never has anything rational to say except that he hates the US and all it's systems. He's sooo intellegent cause you knows what systems are. Spook, I was into hardcore anarchist punk (friends that squatted, etc -- not the bubble-gum bullshit) for 10 years and still listen to it 10 years after that -- your an idiot if you think I have no grasp on systems. But you wouldn't realize that because your an arrogant, pompous idiot.

anarchists? punks? hates the u.s.? you're way off base, bub. i can see how it might look like that from someone with such a simpleton's view on life, though.

gotta love the type of guy who responds to people he has on his ignore list. somehow it feels exactly concentric with the rest of your existence. it smells a lot like "can dish it, can't take it."

[dirtybryan]

Not much... I guess I'm at the point where they get the same fair treatment they give us. If a few innocents are taken out that is unfortunate but war isn't about being PC. Being PC is why countries loose wars.



Please read above... I guess you'll have to think I'm an idiot -- plenty of people around here do. But I am not an apoligist for my beliefs. I wish there was a better way to sort out innocent from the real bad guys but this is war and war has never been as pretty and PC as it is today. People from generations ago would look at what we do and how we whine about rights for our enemies and wonder if we are nuts. We essentially (politicians and media)beat ourselves in most recent wars. It's not our military's inability if given proper resources.

Compassion and true justice is what sets us a apart from them. You are just stooping to their level. You pretty much all but said we should recruit some suicide bombers of our own. I'd like to think the people of the past would balk at our concern for justice, it'd be a sign that humans have advanced. If you are a father as your avatar suggests, I'm shocked by your lack of compassion for humans.

[spook]

I mean think of Iraq... I naively thought the Iraqi people would be happy that they were not under Sadam's rule and work together. While I believe they are happier now they certainly have not intentions of working together which in the end will turn out much worse for them than if they were just stuck with Sadam.

stunning. another procreator teaching his children well no doubt.

[truckeelocal]

stunning. another procreator teaching his children well no doubt.

Please use proper punctuation otherwise we may have occasion to question your upbringing

[Crass3000]

Compassion and true justice is what sets us a apart from them. You are just stooping to their level. You pretty much all but said we should recruit some suicide bombers of our own. I'd like to think the people of the past would balk at our concern for justice, it'd be a sign that humans have advanced. If you are a father as your avatar suggests, I'm shocked by your lack of compassion for humans.

I have alot of compassion for humans and believe it or not I am always nice to EVERYBODY I meet. With that being said... I have no patience for people who would like to lynch me. You're a better person than I am if you would give these people rights that they would deny you. I wish I could be so ultruistic but it's just not in my charactor.

[spook]

Please use proper punctuation otherwise we may have occasion to question your upbringing

i'm sorry. apparently you didn't realize i am a punk anarchist.

[zion zig zag]

It's OK, you can shorten "i am" to "I'm". At least your not executing folks on a whim. Are you 'Cause I'm not sure how punk anarchists react. Armed or unarmed.

It's true, you can shorten 'I am' to 'I'm', but you cannot shorten 'you are' to 'your'.

[zion zig zag]

Ahh, deleted your post I see.

[hemas]

Hemas- exactly how would a trigger lock serve to prevent a gun from entering the black market?

It wouldn't stop someone who is resolved to get a gun (ie. you break the lock).

But for your average thief, the VCR is plasma-screen is much more valuable and less time consuming. Same goes for locked gun-cabin, sure it can be broken into, but again it takes more time and is often not worth the hassle.


And to who ever asked about Suisse guns. Well every male citizen will have an assault rifle (after he has done his mandatory army-service), and also a sealed container w/ 3 (I might be wrong, as I can't remember what my former Suisse boss said a few years ago) clips.

Oh, and they have to bring the gun & container to mandatory rehearsals (every few years for a few days to a week or so), and naturally the seals are checked and after that the clips are used. And yep, if the seal is broken you're in deep doo doo, like over yer head.

[sftc]

I talked to an ex-girlfriend who graduated from VT and she said when she was in school there were a LOT of guns around the school and skeet shooting was a common frat party activity. Even though they banned guns on campus she was surprised that none of the students were armed because it's just part of the culture in Virginia. I don't think having a lot of students carrying loaded guns on campus is a good idea, but maybe this nut job would have thought twice about what he was doing if he knew there was a good chance that someone might shoot back.
This discussion also reminds me of what a guy I used to work with who was really into full contact karate, he was the New Jersey state champ at some point. Someone asked him what he would do if he was threatened with a knife and he said he would run. And if he was threatened with a gun? He said he would run faster.

[truckeelocal]

It's true, you can shorten 'I am' to 'I'm', but you cannot shorten 'you are' to 'your'.

Touche

Meanwhile I deleted the post, not because of my hypocracy but because it really didn't advance the thread. Then again nothing else is. Advancing the thread that is.