The Official Gun Control Debate thread

[spook]

For a look at what can happen to gun rights just look at what has happened to smoker's rights.

Bit by bit smoking has become so vilified that they have no problem taxing and legislating it to the point that some cities are banning it alltogether, indoors and out, even in your own car.

This is not a hijack to a smoking argument, but just an example how our rights can be whittled away to nothing, guns will be next...just watch.

tee hee!!

[Tye 1on]

How many skier days are there here in the US? Per Annum?

Final reports indicate that the U.S. ski industry set an all-time national skier visit record of 58.9 million for the 2005/06 season, up 3.5 percent from last season, and up 2.3 percent from the previous record set in 2002/03. Continuing a very strong trend, the five best seasons on record have all occurred in the past six seasons (2000/01 and forward). Based on this string of performances, the industry appears to have established a new performance range since 2000/01 of approximately three to five million skier visits higher than the previous levels in the 1990s...
http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/0607/kottke-0506.asp

[PNWbrit]

This is exactly what you'd expect when the law-abiding people are all disarmed...criminals know that having a gun lets you do anything you want.

If this were true given the fact that historically British police have been mostly unarmed and private gun ownership is far less common shouldn't the U.K. gun crime rate have been far higher than the U.S. even before their complete ban on ownership?

Other, more complex, societal factors at work I think.

[mr_gyptian]

For a look at what can happen to gun rights just look at what has happened to smoker's rights.

Bit by bit smoking has become so vilified that they have no problem taxing and legislating it to the point that some cities are banning it alltogether, indoors and out, even in your own car.

This is not a hijack to a smoking argument, but just an example how our rights can be whittled away to nothing, guns will be next...just watch.

that couldn't possibly be further from the mark. you could maybe make an argument regarding the privelege to drive. but enough precedent exists that holds the second amendment as a "right" to bear arms your assertion holds little if any water.

that is unless I missed the amendment guaranteeing our right to bear lung darts.

[Gripen]

Might be, at least in the case of States. As you have guns so readily available... and no law will fix that problem (as you already stated, criminals would not give their guns away... while the nice peeps would).

But most likely such red tape, would lessen the changes of getting a gun (family, friends, a street buy)... Less guns "roaming around", the more PITA it would be to get one.

Dont you live in Finland? I am also assuming your Finnish. (might not be, i live in a country i am not a citizen of). WTF do you care about American gun control regulations. I am fucking tired of everyone always telling me how insane my country is and how we should do things this way or that. When it comes to interal US politics stay the fuck out. I have to put up with this shit on a daily basis and I am fucking tired of it. DONT TELL US HOW TO RUN OUR COUNTRY.

Sorry for the rant but I am truley tired of this.

[spook]

Dont you live in Finland? I am also assuming your Finnish. (might not be, i live in a country i am not a citizen of). WTF do you care about American gun control regulations. I am fucking tired of everyone always telling me how insane my country is and how we should do things this way or that. When it comes to interal US politics stay the fuck out. I have to put up with this shit on a daily basis and I am fucking tired of it. DONT TELL US HOW TO RUN OUR COUNTRY.

Sorry for the rant but I am truley tired of this.

perhaps when the u.s. stops trying to run the world, other folks will be less inclined to comment on how we "run" our country. how terrible that you have to put up with this on a daily basis. it is a pretty insane country though.

[AsheanMT]

I have no prob with tight restrictions for gun ownership for responsible citizens but that WILL NOT eliminate the amazing amount of firearms already on the streets and in the hands of unregistered owners. For those that think ALL guns should be banned....Go move to a Country that supports your belief! Our Constitution has granted us the freedom to bear arms for many different reasons such as hunting,protection, and the rare need to create revolution from a corrupt government. I will refuse to live in a country in which those "In Power" have firearms and everyone else is "unarmed". Fortunately for me I live in a State where that could never happen. Sooo, considering that all the guns can not be eliminated and crazy fucks who kill people will continue to do so...I say arm yourself if you feel comfortable doing so and if you see anyone shooting a bunch of innocent people, use your firearm to protect yourself and those around you. That is what handguns are for.

[waxman]

p11 get your fact straight: "in canada, some physco with a legally registered hunting rifle went on a rampage at a university in montreal"
it was registered, correct, but by no means was it a hunting rifle, it was a pistol caliber carbine that by law was to be shot at approved ranges and subject to a host of other regulations which the criminal chose to ignore....

rideit, valid point and by no means am i an anti abortion nutjob but abrtion is not birth control, but unlike a bullet i guess you can take back sperm....

[hemas]

Dont you live in Finland? I am also assuming your Finnish. (might not be, i live in a country i am not a citizen of). WTF do you care about American gun control regulations. I am fucking tired of everyone always telling me how insane my country is and how we should do things this way or that. When it comes to interal US politics stay the fuck out. I have to put up with this shit on a daily basis and I am fucking tired of it. DONT TELL US HOW TO RUN OUR COUNTRY.

Sorry for the rant but I am truley tired of this.

I actually don't care... Fine by me, if you just shoot everyone around ya, and then do please put a bullet in yer own head... that way, there would be a lot of new land to occupy...

Besides I'm sure, that would make the (land) prices even lower... And even I could afford to buy a big ranch.... in say LCC.

I'm here just to post my opinion. And nope, I don't give a damn what you think of it.


BTW. it's funny that you stated:

I am fucking tired of everyone always telling me how insane my country is and how we should do things this way or that.

That you're country seems to be the most eager to dictate what other countries should do, and what not to do.

[powder11]

p11 get your fact straight: "in canada, some physco with a legally registered hunting rifle went on a rampage at a university in montreal"
it was registered, correct, but by no means was it a hunting rifle, it was a pistol caliber carbine that by law was to be shot at approved ranges and subject to a host of other regulations which the criminal chose to ignore....

ok, so whats your point? even with heavily regulated gun laws, crazy people are going to go out and kill people.

[Jer]

perhaps when the u.s. stops trying to run the world, other folks will be less inclined to comment on how we "run" our country. how terrible that you have to put up with this on a daily basis. it is a pretty insane country though.

Yeah - really. America sucks ass. Maybe you should leave. I'm sure people in other countries have a better appreciation of classical music and, how you say...douchebags.

[Gripen]

I actually don't care... Fine by me, if you just shoot everyone around ya, and then do please put a bullet in yer own head... that way, there would be a lot of new land to occupy...

Besides I'm sure, that would make the (land) prices even lower... And even I could afford to buy a big ranch.... in say LCC.

I'm here just to post my opinion. And nope, I don't give a damn what you think of it.


BTW. it's funny that you stated:


That you're country seems to be the most eager to dictate what other countries should do, and what not to do.

Fuck it, i wrote a response but fuck its not worth it.

[AsheanMT]

Maybe Chris Rock is right.... We don't need gun control. We need BULLET control.

[hemas]

ok, so whats your point? even with heavily regulated gun laws, crazy people are going to go out and kill people.

I don't know... mebbe he's trying to make the same point I am...

by making it more difficult to obtain guns, mebbe these wacko's would either get their heads straight or just hang them selves.

Some additional red tape to accuire a small handgun (ie. non rifle/shotgun) would most likely cut the number of such weapons in circulation. And guess what, in the long run, would make it more difficult for nutjobs to get one.

[Jer]

Fuck it, i wrote a response but fuck its not worth it.

Sure it is. Russian or German? Gulag or concentration camp?

[TeleHoar]

that couldn't possibly be further from the mark. you could maybe make an argument regarding the privelege to drive. but enough precedent exists that holds the second amendment as a "right" to bear arms your assertion holds little if any water.

that is unless I missed the amendment guaranteeing our right to bear lung darts.

I agree the Constitution doesn't allow "smoker" rights per se. It is implied in that we have the right to enjoy self-regarding behaviours without being hounded by government.

This thread is about gun rights however.

I just hold that up to an example of what can happen...bit by bit...as Guns are vilified more and more. It is already happening with every bit of gun legislation as it is passed. Just because it has it's own amendment doesn't mean they won't dilute it down to nothing.

[SuperGaper]

Maybe Chris Rock is right.... We don't need gun control. We need BULLET control.

BINGO!!!!

[Rydellen]

Dont say it has nothing to do with guns beeing easily available! In Sweden for an exampel you cant get a hold of a gun if your not a hunter. And to become a hunter takes serious schooling and testing before you get your license. AND WHEN you have your license its against the law to have your rifle outside your "weaponlocker" when there is not huntingseason. You cant just walk around in the streets with your gun. When people go mad or feel like taking their lives, they do it in Sweden as well, but if they dont have a gun easily available they wont at least take anyone with them. THATS the big fucking difference between sweden and sick fucking countries/states like the US/southern states.
Dont come with political crap. I see you all as consuming pigs that dont give a shit. Incompetent and unwilling to change your behavior.

Just had to write some anger off...sorry, no personal attack to anyone but the leaders of your country.

[Spats]

Other, more complex, societal factors at work I think.

Like an increasing gang population without the traditional British respect for authority and a willingness to import firearms?

You'll have a very, very hard time arguing that the handgun ban has made Britons any safer:

[AsheanMT]

I don't know... mebbe he's trying to make the same point I am...

by making it more difficult to obtain guns, mebbe these wacko's would either get their heads straight or just hang them selves.

Some additional red tape to accuire a small handgun (ie. non rifle/shotgun) would most likely cut the number of such weapons in circulation. And guess what, in the long run, would make it more difficult for nutjobs to get one.

Bullshit. Have you been to America? Ever heard of gun swaps? Do you realize that people sell guns privately all the time? Did you know that they keep the guns in Stores and those stores get robbed? Guns in pawnshops get stolen. Do you know that millions of Americans have handguns and they can be stolen and sold by any number of them? Do you REALLY think you can successfully take guns off the street? Do you really think that guns won't be shipped in from overseas or brought over the border?

[Jer]

THATS the big fucking difference between sweden and sick fucking countries/states like the US/southern states.
Dont come with political crap. I see you all as consuming pigs that dont give a shit. Incompetent and unwilling to change your behavior.

German or Russian? Concentration Camp or Gulag?

[Gripen]

Dont say it has nothing to do with guns beeing easily available! In Sweden for an exampel you cant get a hold of a gun if your not a hunter. And to become a hunter takes serious schooling and testing before you get your license. AND WHEN you have your license its against the law to have your rifle outside your "weaponlocker" when there is not huntingseason. You cant just walk around in the streets with your gun. When people go mad or feel like taking their lives, they do it in Sweden as well, but if they dont have a gun easily available they wont at least take anyone with them. THATS the big fucking difference between sweden and sick fucking countries/states like the US/southern states.
Dont come with political crap. I see you all as consuming pigs that dont give a shit. Incompetent and unwilling to change your behavior.

Just had to write some anger off...sorry, no personal attack to anyone but the leaders of your country.

That right... wonder how my buddy got shot in the leg in a driveby at Mcdonalds in Stockholm last year??? Must have been a serious hunter with training.

[Gripen]

Dont come with political crap. I see you all as consuming pigs that dont give a shit. Incompetent and unwilling to change your behavior.

Just had to write some anger off...sorry, no personal attack to anyone but the leaders of your country.

Javla Svensk... just another swede ignorant of his own country, seems to be a pattern.
Oh sorry, not a personal attack, just attacking the system that made you an ignorant, lethargic, blind devil.

[hemas]

Ever heard of gun swaps? Do you realize that people sell guns privately all the time? Did you know that they keep the guns in Stores and those stores get robbed?

Yep, and guess what... with such red tape, gun swaps would either become illegal, or more controlled.

And peeps can steal guns from shops, even though they ain't gone through the red tape.

As for importing illegal guns, well nothing can stop that (atleast any reasonable measure).

Point being, that due time. Guns such as 9mm semi-automagic pistols would become harder the get (yes, even to criminals). And nope, it wouldn't happen in a year or two.

It also wouldn't stop the most determinated criminals for getting a gun or 10. But it would most likely lessen the changes of a boozed up guy thinking that his wife is cheating on him, from getting a gun and killin' her.Or a uni student, that breaks up with his GF, to walk to his dorm and kill ~30 peeps at the campus...

[AsheanMT]

Dont say it has nothing to do with guns beeing easily available! In Sweden for an exampel you cant get a hold of a gun if your not a hunter. And to become a hunter takes serious schooling and testing before you get your license. AND WHEN you have your license its against the law to have your rifle outside your "weaponlocker" when there is not huntingseason. You cant just walk around in the streets with your gun. When people go mad or feel like taking their lives, they do it in Sweden as well, but if they dont have a gun easily available they wont at least take anyone with them. THATS the big fucking difference between sweden and sick fucking countries/states like the US/southern states.
Dont come with political crap. I see you all as consuming pigs that dont give a shit. Incompetent and unwilling to change your behavior.

Just had to write some anger off...sorry, no personal attack to anyone but the leaders of your country.

Fuck You Asshole. This is a Democracy. WE ARE THE LEADERS! We have voted time and time again and the majority of the citizens demand that their right to bear arms remains intact. There are about 9 million+ people in your country. We have 298 Million+ people here. We are obviously going to have more violent incidents than you. Considering our population.....Its a small percentage of people shooting one another. Don't try to tell us that people don't get shot with handguns in your country. You think you don't have illegal firearms in the hands of criminals in Sweden?