Running, Anyone...?

**steve** · 05-13-2009, 07:36 AM

this is what we do:

http://coachingendurance.com/blog/20...entation.shtml

get off the roads, head for the trails. (:

**telepariah** · 05-13-2009, 09:56 AM

Nice, Steve! Iam bummed that I ahven't been able to run for about 12 weeks with shoulder injury and surgery. Just went for a 3 mile walk last night. I am wiped out today and my neck and shoulder are killing. Can't wait to get past this.

Here's a narcissistic little running viddy from my 52nd birthday last Nov.

here

**tarkman1** · 05-13-2009, 11:20 AM

I just started working out a local group and coaches to train for a December marathon. The guts of the first sessions was

8x - 400m in 1:08. 100m in 40s immediately followed by
8x - 400m in 1:08. 100m in 35s.

I thought the rests in the second half would be 5s longer, not shorter. Oops. I

Well, my goal was to get through the workout without puking. I passed.

**Dantheman** · 05-13-2009, 11:32 AM

Did 19.5 miles in 3:15 last night after work. Grand Canyon double crossing coming up a week from Sunday.

**BeanDip4All** · 05-13-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by steve

this is what we do:

http://coachingendurance.com/blog/20...entation.shtml

get off the roads, head for the trails. (:

Damn, Steve! What a great video! I already went for my morning run, but watching this makes me want to get out there again

**lionelhutz** · 05-13-2009, 12:15 PM

Gotta get those morning runs in when the weather is as nice as it was today.
50's no wind and clear skies. Perfect running weather.
Now if could just find where i left my legs between sunday and today I'd have had a perfect run.

**Daywalker** · 05-13-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Did 19.5 miles in 3:15 last night after work. Grand Canyon double crossing coming up a week from Sunday.

24 hour goal? Good luck either way, looking forward to the report/pictures. Are you doing Kaibab and Bright Angel?

**Dantheman** · 05-13-2009, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Daywalker

24 hour goal? Good luck either way, looking forward to the report/pictures. Are you doing Kaibab and Bright Angel?

Hoping for more like 12-14 hours. It's 46 miles and with the shape I am in right now I think 3-4 mph is doable. I think it all hinges on hot how it decides to be that day.

**OldLarry** · 05-15-2009, 10:06 AM

mentioned this in the melancholy thread (oddly enough), but do any of you guys have opinions on the merits of running w/ weighted vest? Chafing is an issue I'd imagine but...

**Tuckerman** · 05-15-2009, 10:11 AM

I want one but for now and to the complete embarrassment of my wife I run around our neighborhood (1 mile loop) with a #75 heavy bag. I know don't say it.

Anyway, I going to start put Team Maggot on all my race forms in the spot for what club you run for.

**BeanDip4All** · 05-15-2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by OldLarry

mentioned this in the melancholy thread (oddly enough), but do any of you guys have opinions on the merits of running w/ weighted vest? Chafing is an issue I'd imagine but...

is there a specific training reason you need to do this?

I'm hoping to get one and start training this way soon, mainly because a few of the firefighter CPAT/physical tests I'm taking in the fall will have weighted vest activities on them. For example on the CPAT you have to run stairs for 4 minutes while wearing 75lbs.

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I want one but for now and to the complete embarrassment of my wife I run around our neighborhood (1 mile loop) with a #75 heavy bag. I know don't say it.

Tuck, how do you make the 75# bag? Sand? Water? Weights wrapped in towels? I'm waiting to buy a vest until I have a little extra $$, they run about $150 online. It might be good to try and make one in the meantime.
edit- ooh on sale for $100. I would imagine the shipping on these bad boys is nuts.
http://bestco-products.amazonwebstor...B001FGEJX2.htm

**Tuckerman** · 05-15-2009, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

Tuck, how do you make the 75# bag? Sand? Water? Weights wrapped in towels?

You have never seen a heavy bag? I workout on a #100 and the #75 is my ground and pound / running / throwing....... bag

**steve** · 05-15-2009, 12:13 PM

just run with 75# of excess fat.. that's the way I do it.

of course, losing it later might be a problem.

call me a traditionalist, but what was wrong with a backpack full of rocks or water? yes i know the $150 thing is "evenly distributed" or whatever shtick they sell it with, but - so what? modern backpacker's packs direct the weight to your hips, effectively accomplishing the same thing and are not a $150 single-purpose item - AND you probably have one lying around anyway.

Plus, if you get in trouble, dump the rocks/water and you didn't just leave $100 worth of weights in the middle of the woods.

**BeanDip4All** · 05-15-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

You have never seen a heavy bag? I workout on a #100 and the #75 is my ground and pound / running / throwing....... bag

huh. you actually carry the bag when you run? How do you carry it- parallel to the ground?

steve, good idea, i might try and improvise a man-made 75lb backpack today. also i think i just recently went on a cleaning spree and gave that space backpack kicking around to goodwill. GAH.

**Tuckerman** · 05-15-2009, 12:24 PM

I put it on my shoulder and keep switching sides as they get tired.

**OldLarry** · 05-15-2009, 01:10 PM

I'm thinking that the vest would help w/ altitude change- just make me suck wind that much more...

**bean** · 05-17-2009, 03:24 AM

Up at 3am for the second day in a row...yesterday for mountains, today to go run. Guess it's good they start at 6am, supposed to get to the mid-80s today. Should be a good day for a race. Feeling solid, slept clear through from 6:30pm to 3am.

**steve** · 05-17-2009, 05:59 AM

how do you fall asleep at 6:30pm? I can't do that without ambien..

**XtrPickels** · 05-17-2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by OldLarry

mentioned this in the melancholy thread (oddly enough), but do any of you guys have opinions on the merits of running w/ weighted vest? Chafing is an issue I'd imagine but...

What are the end goals that you are trying to achieve?

Running is a linear translation across the ground. Energy put into the vertical plane, against gravity and perpendicular to your plane of travel is just wasted energy.

Running while wearing something heavy is hard work. It "feels" like you are accomplishing something. What you are accomplishing, however, is the redirection of energy from running forward into pushing vertical off the ground to counteract the load you are carrying. This does not train "running".

Additionally, the increased load of the bag increases the ground reaction force. If you have a misaligned structure or any asymmetry in your gait the additional load will increase the likelihood of injury. Keep in mind, its not "if" we get injured, its when. I see the running with a weight as accelerating the process.

Now, this applies to pure run training. If you are a wildland firefighter, a construction worker or in a sweet competition with your buddies, I can understand training with a load. Its all about what you are trying to achieve.

**bean** · 05-17-2009, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by steve

how do you fall asleep at 6:30pm? I can't do that without ambien..

I woke up at 3am yesterday to climb/ski a 14er (just Quandary though so nothing difficult).

1:38:35 from my GPS, I'm stoked with the time, especially for it being my first 1/2 marathon, and wearing the VFFs.

**BeanDip4All** · 05-17-2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bean

I woke up at 3am yesterday to climb/ski a 14er (just Quandary though so nothing difficult).

1:38:35 from my GPS, I'm stoked with the time, especially for it being my first 1/2 marathon, and wearing the VFFs.

nice!!

now come on, don't be shy, post some pics of you wearing the VFFs. I venture you might be as lampooned as Roo in the manpris :P

**bean** · 05-17-2009, 11:28 AM

As soon as the photos from the race are posted I'll put them up here, no photos of me wearing them yet. I'm sure I'll get a few more opportunities over the summer.

**bean** · 05-17-2009, 05:45 PM

Results just posted.

For the half:
Number of Finishers: 2,294
Number of Females: 1,448
Number of Males: 846
(wtf @ ratio? certainly wasn't that way where I was running, only 13 women faster than me)

My standings:
Overall: 85/2294
Age: 18/167
Sex: 72/846
Chip time: 1:38:35
Gun time: 1:38:38

I'm stoked.

**OldLarry** · 05-18-2009, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by XtrPickels

What are the end goals that you are trying to achieve?

Running is a linear translation across the ground. Energy put into the vertical plane, against gravity and perpendicular to your plane of travel is just wasted energy.

Running while wearing something heavy is hard work. It "feels" like you are accomplishing something. What you are accomplishing, however, is the redirection of energy from running forward into pushing vertical off the ground to counteract the load you are carrying. This does not train "running".

Additionally, the increased load of the bag increases the ground reaction force. If you have a misaligned structure or any asymmetry in your gait the additional load will increase the likelihood of injury. Keep in mind, its not "if" we get injured, its when. I see the running with a weight as accelerating the process.

Now, this applies to pure run training. If you are a wildland firefighter, a construction worker or in a sweet competition with your buddies, I can understand training with a load. Its all about what you are trying to achieve.

Interesting assesment- trying to train at sea level to possibly run a marathon w/ lots of vertical at altitude.

**Tuckerman** · 05-18-2009, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by OldLarry

Interesting assesment- trying to train at sea level to possibly run a marathon w/ lots of vertical at altitude.

Thats what I was thinking, because I run up mountains a lot the muscles that get tired running with the heavy bag are the same that get tired running up. But the same muscles do not get tired just running for example at a 10% grade on a treadmill.

I will add that I have never won first place in any race so maybe its because I'm doing wrong? I do have two 3ed place wins and a 5th place.