Running, Anyone...?

[Viva]

On a related note, do you guys take water on >10km runs? I get to about 12km and just bonk out and think this would help.

If so, how do you take liquid on a run without looking like a douchebag?

edg

If it's 100 F or 100% humidity, you'll look like a bigger douchebag, albeit an empty, shriveled up douchebag, lying on the ground flaying about with severe muscle cramps. Not able to call for help because your throat is parched.

Seriously, take a bottle (handjob!) filled with electrolyte. Choose one that uses complex carbohydrates, rather than glucose or sucrose. Consider trying energy gels every 30 minutes followed by a swig of water. Note- I drink electrolyte alone or water with gels. Ultimately, you're gonna have to figure out what works best for you.

If this helps, you'll be running an extra 2 or 3K and then you'll really be glad to have a bottle.

[edg]

Cheers guys! It's kind of ridiculous that I swig every 30 mins on the bike but never thought to do it on my feet really!

edg

[Mofro261]

On a related note, do you guys take water on >10km runs? I get to about 12km and just bonk out and think this would help.

If so, how do you take liquid on a run without looking like a douchebag?

edg

^^^ I've tried waist packs, camelbacks etc. The easiest way to not look like a douchebag is to know the route you're running that day and try to stash a bottle of H2O or gatorade somewhere on the route. I'll second viva about the electrolytes. My first marathon I only drank water because I didn't like the taste of whatever drink they were providing. I was really well hydrated but bonked harder than at mile 23. I'd encourage finding out whatever drink is being provided at the event and practice drinking it if possible.



Sidenote: I just started running again last week after 20 months off and two ACL reconstructions. Maybe a spring marathon will be in order.

[Artie Fufkin]

Artie, I would differ to Viva (or anyone who actually knows what they are talking about), but do you think it's wise to try to almost double your cal intake from your training runs? How were you feeling at the end of 11 hours at 300 cal/hr? I'm somewhat talking out of my ass here, but thinking of the old "don't try anything new on race day" axiom

That's good advice, I've also been experimenting with some different foods and drinks, so I have a fairly good idea of what works, though what works 2hrs into the race might not work 20 hours later. After the 11hrs I felt pretty good, I ran out of water towards the end, but that was more of a hydration issue. That was resolved after the run by loading up on IPAs.

Don't go crazy on that downhill start from Downtown. Take it easy on the first 5 miles or so of pavement.

Once you find your groove, go with it- you'll know exactly what pace is appropriate at any given moment. DO NOT try and hold back if you're feeling good on the long downhills. That can cause you to adopt a weird stride and you may end up tweaking something. Don't go gangbusters either.

By now you know what works for you. Stick with your routine. don't try anything new. Period. There will be a lot of weird shit served at the aid stations, especially at night. Eat prudently. Best to stick with what you know works, but expect to get sick of your normal food and drink after 15 or 20 hours. Chicken soup is usually safe for most people. Mix in some extra salt if you're cramping a little.

^^^Unless you totally blow up. Then, when you finally crawl into the next aid station, tell the aid station captain or chief medical person exactly what's going on with you and that you intend to finish. Then do exactly what they tell you to. Some of those guys have been there for over 20 years and they know their shit.

When you leave the aid stations, thank everyone on the way out.

Avoid the chair. There's absolutely no reason to ever sit during Leadville, unless you just have to change socks following that river crossing at Twin Lakes. You're there to run, not sit. Once you sit, it will cost you time and your legs will fell like caca when you get up.

Likewise, avoid lingering at aid stations. Fill your bottles (or cameltoe), grab some food, pinch the cute girls on the butt (I liked to give hugs- seriously, try it. When they ask you if there's anything else you need, ask for a hug. Just don't get an erection because you don't want to interrupt the blood supply to your legs) and get back out on the trail. This can be hard at places like MayQueen, where they have this ridiculously long tent with heaters and benches. Very cozy when it's in the 30s outside and you're sweaty and dressed in shorts. Get what you need and get the fuck out.

If you're hurting, no more than 2 ibuprofin every 4 hours.

Eat some home-made cookies at the Hope Pass aid station. Stop and take in the view from there; easily the most beautiful section of the race. Don't forget to pet the llamas either.

Redundancy. Keep things you may need in several drop bags. Anticipate where you might need gloves, a pullover, etc. Keep extra flashlights and batteries in every drop bag you'll hit during the night section.

Will you have a crew. Make sure that they have a camera and that they use it. There'll be some great memories and chances for some great shots.

HAVE FUN!!!

Thanks! I had a crew and pacer and now I don't, so I am relying on drop bags at the aid stations(all except Mayqueen). I'll have my own food in the drop bags, probably some extra clothing to just in case. I definitely want to minimize my time in the aid stations. It seemed like a lot of runners picked up pacers along the way, so if I get to that point I should be able to pick one up.

[Shorey]

Edg - Camel Bak Razor.

Runs of 45 mins or more need a bit of liquid.

[skiaholik]

I don't bring water with me just because there are a lot of water fountains (or bubblers depending on where you're from - God I hate that term) along the bike path I run on and I try to stop every few miles for a quick sip just to stay hydrated. I take hammer gels at the 1hr mark and then 45min to an hr after that. I definitely need to start calorie loading better pre runs though as I can tell the difference in how I feel on the days that I don't. Morning of a long run I usually have a piece of bread with a banana or an orange. I started bringing a $20 with me for emergency purpose (need extra food/water/ something happens and I need a cab back or to make a phone call, etc.) didn't for a while then thought it would be smart to carry some money.

[squirrel]

Artie Fufkin - I just wanted to wish the best run of your life at Leadville. I have to Leadville buckles and I love that race. You have gotten excellent advice from Viva, keep moving and don't spent a lot of time in aid stations i the best advice. The cut-offs at Leadville keep a lot of people from finishing there.
Your plan to eat 500 cal in aid stations won't happen. Number one you cannot digest that much food on the run and second I don't know if you have ever spend more than 20 hour moving at 10,000 feet plus, but you lose your appetite. by the time you back to Half Moon A/S nothing on the table is gong to look good. If so soup will keep you going.
If you sit and have a pacer have them time you and limit it to two or no more than three minutes. most importantly is keep having fun even if you're on the side of the trail puking. Have fun with other runners on the course, mainly have fun with aid station volunteers and if you have a crew, have fun with them and don't whine to them, and don't bitch at them. They deserve better because they are out there for two days for you.
Enjoy man! Can't wait to hear about it.
BTW: I'll be dong the same song and dance at the Angeles Crest 100 next month.

[tarkman1]

Both Chunder and I are running a bitch of a half-marathon in Santa Barbara at the end of this August. It's basically all uphill starting from sea level and finishing at 3,996 feet. If you want to see if you can run up a mountain, this is a good test.

[Viva]

BTW: I'll be dong the same song and dance at the Angeles Crest 100 next month.

My first 100 back in 92. Still a low-key race and a very fun course. Have fun!

[Daywalker]

I had a crew and pacer and now I don't

Shit, if you had mentioned it 3 weeks ago I would stuck around CO and taken care of it. As it is I'll be doing "heavy" training for me this weekend (25 Sat, 15 Sun) all by my lonesome in Virginia.

Good luck!

[Artie Fufkin]

Shit, if you had mentioned it 3 weeks ago I would stuck around CO and taken care of it. As it is I'll be doing "heavy" training for me this weekend (25 Sat, 15 Sun) all by my lonesome in Virginia.

Good luck!

Thanks! Heading up to the Sugar Loafin' campground today.

I shouldn't have a problem picking up a pacer at Winfield or Twin Lakes, it seemed like a lot of runners do that if they don't have pacers lined up. Weather looks alot cooler than last year.

[Tuckerman]

I've been doing alot of long runs this summer getting ready for Leadville this weekend

Wow good luck man. The weather look great.

"August snow in Colorado?By Alan Gathright, Rocky Mountain News"Snow in August!"A cold front arriving Thursday could drop some winter-like frosting above 10,000 feet along and east of the Continental Divide, including parts of Rocky Mountain National Park, early Friday morning and night."That will be a significant cool-off," said Bob Koopmeiners of the National Weather Service in Boulder."But be on the lookout: The urban corridor could face some severe thunderstorms packing large hail and damaging winds this afternoon and evening."Then it will get chilly, wet and windy Friday — with a 60 percent chance of rain and gusts up to 20 mph."

[Tuckerman]

This dood eating pizza during the Leadville 100. Also watch out for this dood I'm guessing he'll be spitting a lot.

[squirrel]

Pizza is my favorite in a 100 mile run. Normally around mile 50 and 75, two slices and some Red Bull or Monster and that is awesome fuel for a good couple of hours. Try it you'll like it.....

[skiaholik]

Bump.

For those of you on Ultra, Halfs, Marathons, Endurognarads or other long run training plans, how'd you're long run go this weekend?

Did 16 this morning and felt really good, tried to do a tempo for the last 1/4mi and ended up sprinting. Guess I had a lot more in me than I realized which is always nice. I ran with a local running group for the first time that does build up marathon runs on Sat. mornings and it was awesome. I've never really run with other people before and it was helpful to keep pace, stay motivated and meet cool new people. They have a few water/gatorade stations set up along the course in addition to the water fountains, and then at the end they have tons of bananas, oranges, pretzels, water, soda, gatorade, chips to refuel. Definitely much better than running the long runs solo and unsupported.

So how about the rest of you. Do you do supported long runs? Solo? Drop off supply bags? Out and backs or dropped off by car and run back?

How often do you take gels or cliff shots on the longer runs. I'm trying to play with what works best. This time I did 2 little blocks at about an hr and then about 45min or so later I did a hammer gel. Think I may do it at 35-40min intervals or do the first one sooner next time. Can you take too many of these things? What's the standard time gaps between?

[Viva]

Artie's doing alright; looks like he's about 18:33 into it with 30 miles to go. Fuck! I wish I was there.

[Daywalker]

Yeah Artie!

skiaholik, my weekend:

Ran 25 on Saturday in 4:07 (9:52/mile) over a hilly route, piss and food stops included. I used 3 drops at 7, 13, and 19 miles (dropped water/gatorade/food) and carried a liter of water with me between drops. I ate 250-300 calories/hour mainly composed of gels and clif bars but also some fig newtons. I discovered that clif bars start to suck to chew later in a run and a caffeinated shot rocks. I was pretty happy with the run, as I was out running by myself over hillier terrain than normal and my mind and body handled it fine. It's my longest training run so far.

Today I ran 15 in 2:40 (10:40/mile) over an even hillier route. I used 2 drops and carried the liter with me. Same calories consumed, but experimented with PB&J, which I've had on the bike before. It tasted delicious and got me my calories. Hoo-rah. My knee bothered me a bit on the downhills, so I walked those. That brought the lower pace. I paid a bit more attention to my stride and think it was just a mis-step that I couldn't recover from without taking a few walking steps and starting again. It only happened a few times over the course of the run, but it bothers me a bit since I usually don't get injured. At least I got through the long weekend. Took an ice bath after the run and currently I feel pretty good.

[Viva]

Looks like Artie left May Queen aid station at just over 24 hours. He would have had 10-11 miles to go from there, so he's gotta be done by now.

[steve]

Bump.

For those of you on Ultra, Halfs, Marathons, Endurognarads or other long run training plans, how'd you're long run go this weekend?

Super-slow, super-easy 22.67 miles in 5:58.

That's about the pace that I'll be running the grand-teton 50-miler in.

which is in 13 days, by the way.

fuck me.. with a chainsaw.. gently..



at any rate, my legs feel great!

-steve

edit to add : http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/6539934 (check out that hill at the end)

[Artie Fufkin]

Looks like Artie left May Queen aid station at just over 24 hours. He would have had 10-11 miles to go from there, so he's gotta be done by now.

holy shit i am wrecked, i think my time was 28:25 or so, weather was gnarly, sideway rain off turqoise this morning, hail, etc i believe of the 500+ starters finishers were less than 200. i'll post some more details in a couple days.

thanks to all for the last minute advice, unfortunately i didn't follow all of it, but viva's recommendation of having fun was key, i hurt pretty bad for the second half of the race, but always tried to keep smiling when going through the aid stations, etc. the volunteers, crews, crowds were amazing.

[steve]

holy shit i am wrecked, i think my time was 28:25 or so, weather was gnarly, sideway rain off turqoise this morning, hail, etc i believe of the 500+ starters finishers were less than 200. i'll post some more details in a couple days.

thanks to all for the last minute advice, unfortunately i didn't follow all of it, but viva's recommendation of having fun was key, i hurt pretty bad for the second half of the race, but always tried to keep smiling when going through the aid stations, etc. the volunteers, crews, crowds were amazing.

only 100 miles? pussy.



oh wait. i meant to say that's amazing. congrats.

[FJ62]

Got married last Saturday and, today, the wife and I agreed to get in shape and signed up for the Carlsbad Marathon in mid-January. Anyone run this one? Or planning on it?

We've got that Four Hour Marathon in Four Months book but any other training websites, tips, books, etc would be appreciated. Thanks!!! We've never done this before...

[Red Baron]

I've been listening in (reading) this thread for a while, but haven't had much to say...we've got the Banco Popular Half-Marathon coming up in September, and the Moab ("Other") Half Marathon coming up in October - all is well and both my wife and I should be in PR shape this year for both races.

We did crank out a fun little ride/run race here in Chicago last week - the Muddy Buddy - we did it last year as well - what a fun little 11k - click the link for more info if you've never heard of it - there are a bunch of them around the country.

There were 1500 teams of two, starting in waves of 100 - bikers start first, then runners go two minutes later - you switch off every mile or so - basically the biker gets to an obstacle (climbing wall, etc) - leaves the bike in transition, does the obstacle and starts running, and the runner does the obstacle, gets the bike, and starts riding - that way you leapfog the whole way until you get to the end, and have to clear the mud pit together.

Me on the course (yes, you have to run in a bike helmet - event rules)


My wife on the bike


In the mud pit


And coming out of the mud pit, to the finish line


Its a complete muddy mess, and a really good time.

I love this race since it's the opposite of hard core, everyone's out to have a good time, and nothing gets taken too seriously - but its still a decent little workout.

[Tuckerman]

holy shit i am wrecked, i think my time was 28:25 or so, weather was gnarly, sideway rain off turqoise this morning, hail, etc i believe of the 500+ starters finishers were less than 200. i'll post some more details in a couple days.

FKNA

[BeanDip4All]

holy shit i am wrecked, i think my time was 28:25 or so, weather was gnarly, sideway rain off turqoise this morning, hail, etc i believe of the 500+ starters finishers were less than 200. i'll post some more details in a couple days..

YEAH, DUDE!

does leadville have cutoffs?

freaking awesome, Artie!!! Can't wait to hear more about ze race.

Also, Baron, that race seems really fun. I love the mud pits!