Running, Anyone...?

**valleygirl** · 07-24-2008, 07:36 PM

Just want to mention that five miles was a bit... rough... this afternoon. I did manage to avoid the downpours. Legs were a bit tired. Work day a bit... laborious. I don't think I had enough water in me. I jumped in a few puddles and that at least made me laugh.

22 miles between Sun, Wed & Thurs. I'm psyched to have a day off tomorrow.

**Daywalker** · 07-24-2008, 11:03 PM

Hey, at least you did it.

I pulled a steve this week and forgot to body-glide before a long run. I'm currently picking dead skin off of my nipples.

I know someone just threw up a little...

**Lev** · 07-25-2008, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Daywalker

I pulled a steve this week and forgot to body-glide before a long run. I'm currently picking dead skin off of my nipples.

I know someone just threw up a little...

I'd like to be the first one here to say ewwwwwww, that was gross. I'm sorry for you nips. Some times it's better to go shirtless in those circumstances. You're in jogbra central. Everyone's doin' it man.

**valleygirl** · 08-08-2008, 05:27 AM

Nothing anyone else would be psyched about, but I am. At my age, everything seems to be a little slower... metabolism... savings growth... getting out of bed in the morning...

but apparently I'm getting my running times down w/out having worked specifically on it -- had a 54 minute 10K yesterday that has me psyched for a sub-two hour half marathon in October.

We take our victories where we can get them. I suppose carrying around a bit less weight doesn't hurt.

**Elkhound Odin** · 08-08-2008, 07:49 AM

VG,
Good for you on dropping the time. If you want to run your best 1/2, then up your long runs and include fast short runs. It's been working for me this summer. I've been bumping my long trail runs up a mile each week (up to 11miles now). During the week I run a hard 4 mile road loop. In June I ran a 10k trail race @ 55min. Last weekend I ran a 10k road race @ 42:40. That's the fastest 10k since 2001 for me.

My goal is a 1/2M trail race in the fall. I might follow up with snowshoe racing in the winter to keep my running focused. Although that will impact my skiing. Hmmm, a quandry.....

**valleygirl** · 08-09-2008, 02:49 PM

Top o' Bear Notch Road from my house is five miles... I'll be the first to say that there aren't any flat spots on the way up and parts are steep. While the down was a relief for the first couple miles, the last two were brutal on the knees and lower quads. I'll be walking funny tomorrow.

But yay for 10 miles -- my first since '02! And in 1:39:31...

Not bad considering my advanced years.

**axebiker** · 08-09-2008, 07:39 PM

You run the same pace as my wife - how old are you? Oh - and she'll be walking funny tomorrow too...

I rolled 30 miles today - it was PERFECT out.

**carpathian** · 08-10-2008, 11:15 AM

I am glad to see this running thread. I used to run a lot back in high school 10 years ago. Last month a funny thing happened. I got this brick of hash and every time I gravity bonged that shit I would get this craving to take off running. So I went with it! Of course I tried pushing it as if I hadn't missed a beat in 10 years and my body was like WTF? On the third or forth day I was chugging up this hill and all of the sudden I felt this deep opening down in my right lung like it had been gummed up from years of the devils weed.

I like running because it really prioritizes things in life, most specifically your health. You really feel the stuff in your body that should not be there.

So anyway for a while I was only running while flying high on the sweet blonde BC bubbly but now I am out and my legs still want to go so maybe I've turned a page or something?

Now I am training for for these long distance mountain races and mountain domination in general. Life it good. Anyone ever do the Knee Knacker here in BC? 7500 meter gain?
That is a lot.

**skiaholik** · 08-10-2008, 09:06 PM

Ran 18 yesterday morning for the first time ever in my training for the Chicago in Oct. Didn't feel as though I had as much energy as I normally do even with 2 hammer gels, a good nights rest and plenty hydrated. i think going out Thursday night and lack of sleep carried over into my Sat morning run. Plus my lactic threshold is definitely not where it needs to be yet as my legs felt like someone filled them with concrete on the last few miles. Not to bad time though but I definitely need to do a few more mid week speed workouts. To all the marathon and 1/2M people out there how fast/slow do you run your long runs compared to race pace goals?

**valleygirl** · 08-11-2008, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by skiaholik

To all the marathon and 1/2M people out there how fast/slow do you run your long runs compared to race pace goals?

"They" say to do the long runs at 2 minutes below your race pace... but I have a really hard time gearing that far back... I usually just run at a comfortable pace -- which sounds vague but if I know I'm going for distance I'm not wanting to be breathing really hard the whole time.

Took yesterday off (well except for golf & mowing the grass) and have a nice, easy, flat 5.25 on the slate for this evening, and with any luck, it'll still be pissing rain. No doubt it's not going to feel great but I know it's what my sore muscles need.

cue Viva in 5... 4... 3...

**steve** · 08-11-2008, 05:11 AM

I do my long runs as slow as possible. the point of the long run isn't to get fast.. it's to train yourself to spend lots of time on your feet.

**lionelhutz** · 08-11-2008, 02:24 PM

I tend to run my long runs (8 miles+)- i'm working towards a sub 2:00 hr. half marathon- at about 10-20 seconds per mile slower than my goal race pace. I have NO idea if that is the right thing to do...but it works for me...

**Shorey** · 08-12-2008, 12:01 PM

I'm doing a marathon in a just over a month.

My base fitness is reasonable and I'm not going to try and break any records. I tend to run half marathons in 1 hour 30 to 1 hour 32 pace.

I'm currently covering about 30-40 miles per week over three or four runs. Weekdays I do 8 miles per day, twice or three times per week. At weekends I always intend to put in an 20 - 22 miler, but seem to just lose the drive at about 14 or 15.

Is there a knack to breaking these mental barriers? Will going slower help - or will it mean I'm on my legs longer and the overall effect be the same? I know that sounds very daft, but the fatigue in my legs only really kicks in at 13 or 14 miles and even then its mild.

I am aiming to do the marathon at 4.5 hours and am currently ticking along at 8.5 to 9 minute miles in training.

**Viva** · 08-12-2008, 12:03 PM

^^^Are you eating or drinking during these long training runs? If yes, then what and how much?

**BeanDip4All** · 08-12-2008, 12:26 PM

Viva/tuckerman/daywalker/steve/other ultra runners:

What does your nutrition generally look like for a mega-long run? How many cals/hour do you try and take?

Should I be doing the same thing here I did for Ironman? I tried to do 100 cal/hour of a drink (accelerade/gatoraid) AND 100 cals/hour of a "food" ie- gel, payday bar, fig newton, etc for that.

I thought maybe something less would work here- mainly because you're prettymuch carrying your stuff- particularly for those 30 mile training runs where I am self-supported on the Long Path and have no "rest stops" to really hit up.

Let's hear it. Thanks!

**Brock Landers** · 08-12-2008, 12:32 PM

Ran the falmouth road race sunday- 7 miles. I never run...my training consisted of not drinking quite as much heavy beer, and I did 3 miles about a week earlier. Did it in an hour even, and it was sort of crowded- tough to get a good pace when youre dodging people. After about 3 miles I died and the remaining 4 miles were agony.

Afterward I got to thinking, the times I wasnt tired were when I really tried to go a little faster and just let my legs go. I only got tired when I thought about it and when I slowed down a little. Is this reasonable? Im looking to do next years race in 57 minutes or less- attainable, I think

**Artie Fufkin** · 08-12-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

Viva/tuckerman/daywalker/steve/other ultra runners:

What does your nutrition generally look like for a mega-long run? How many cals/hour do you try and take?

I've been doing alot of long runs this summer getting ready for Leadville this weekend, my longest was approx. 11hrs. I usually ate a gel every 45 minutes, or alternate between gels and cliff blocks. Combined with powerade, probably 300+ calories an hour, which sometimes did not seem to be enough.

I am going to try and get closer to 500 calories an hour during the race, that shouldn't be a problem with aid stations every 10 miles. I will also be carrying endurlyte pills with me and will probably take 1-2hr as the day goes on.

I am hoping to avoid any major stomach issues during the race.

Viva, any last minute advice for Leadville???

**Tuckerman** · 08-12-2008, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

Viva/tuckerman/daywalker/steve/other ultra runners:

What does your nutrition generally look like for a mega-long run? How many cals/hour do you try and take?

Should I be doing the same thing here I did for Ironman? I tried to do 100 cal/hour of a drink (accelerade/gatoraid) AND 100 cals/hour of a "food" ie- gel, payday bar, fig newton, etc for that.

Let's hear it. Thanks!

I don't have it down to a science, I try and feel it out as I go if that's possible. I have gotten a lot better I don't cramp up as much as I did when I first started. I guess I never think about cals (maybe I should). I try and take in a gu pack/gel every 45mins if my run is unsupported. I can only fit so much in my CamelBak. If its a supported run I eat what ever I can stuff in my face with out stopping too long, and grabbing some kind of sports drink at most of the aid stations. I think whole food is better for me.

I also take e-caps every 45mins. I think I have a lot of extra cals stored, but I run low on Sodium, Chloride, Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium.

Not sure if that helps. I'm not even sure that I would recognize the signs of being cal deficient during a run.

**Tuckerman** · 08-12-2008, 01:03 PM

from runners world article.
1. You'll burn roughly 400 to 600 calories per hour during your run, but your body can absorb only 240 to 280 calories per hour. You'll never dig out of this deficit, but eating early and often will keep you from bonking. Early on, you can survive on gels and other carbs, but after four hours, add one part protein to four parts carbs (a mix found in most sports bars), says Sunny Blende, M.S., a sports nutritionist and ultrarunner from Sausalito, California.

**steve** · 08-12-2008, 01:06 PM

i was a volunteer at a 50k this past weekend. i ran a food table. i had gu, pretzels, salt-potatoes, m&ms, pbj, and defizzed coke. people's choices were completely dependent on that person's preferences and tolerances, and the variation was tremendous. everyone is an experiment of one, and that is especially true with running food.

in my case:

my normal pre-long-run food is a bagel with lox/creamcheese. the "bagel" part is key.. before the philadelphia marathon, i had no bagel. it made a difference. i took a bagel from a spectator at mile 19. it made a difference.
normally during the run/race, i'm pretty laid back. i try to drink gatorade on my training lsds. i otherwise eat/drink whatever is at aid stations. gels don't work for me, although i recently discovered that i can eat less than a whole gel without stomach distress. but it doesn't do much.. coke (defizzed or otherwise) doesn't work for me either. clif shot blocks do work for me. i'm bringin them to the 50-miler on labor day.

however, my case is not your case. you're probably at least a little different, perhaps completely different..

**Daywalker** · 08-12-2008, 01:11 PM

I shoot for that 300 cal/hr rate, mainly using clif bars, gels, and drink on runs. That's the same target I'm going to try to hit during the race. I carry a few gels and a clif bar with me plus a credit card for a gatorade and whatever mid run. Can you hit up a convenience store somewhere on your run?

Artie, I would differ to Viva (or anyone who actually knows what they are talking about), but do you think it's wise to try to almost double your cal intake from your training runs? How were you feeling at the end of 11 hours at 300 cal/hr? I'm somewhat talking out of my ass here, but thinking of the old "don't try anything new on race day" axiom

**edg** · 08-12-2008, 01:16 PM

On a related note, do you guys take water on >10km runs? I get to about 12km and just bonk out and think this would help.

If so, how do you take liquid on a run without looking like a douchebag?

edg

**Viva** · 08-12-2008, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Artie Fufkin

Viva, any last minute advice for Leadville???

Don't go crazy on that downhill start from Downtown. Take it easy on the first 5 miles or so of pavement.

Once you find your groove, go with it- you'll know exactly what pace is appropriate at any given moment. DO NOT try and hold back if you're feeling good on the long downhills. That can cause you to adopt a weird stride and you may end up tweaking something. Don't go gangbusters either.

By now you know what works for you. Stick with your routine. don't try anything new. Period. There will be a lot of weird shit served at the aid stations, especially at night. Eat prudently. Best to stick with what you know works, but expect to get sick of your normal food and drink after 15 or 20 hours. Chicken soup is usually safe for most people. Mix in some extra salt if you're cramping a little.

^^^Unless you totally blow up. Then, when you finally crawl into the next aid station, tell the aid station captain or chief medical person exactly what's going on with you and that you intend to finish. Then do exactly what they tell you to. Some of those guys have been there for over 20 years and they know their shit.

When you leave the aid stations, thank everyone on the way out.

Avoid the chair. There's absolutely no reason to ever sit during Leadville, unless you just have to change socks following that river crossing at Twin Lakes. You're there to run, not sit. Once you sit, it will cost you time and your legs will fell like caca when you get up.

Likewise, avoid lingering at aid stations. Fill your bottles (or cameltoe), grab some food, pinch the cute girls on the butt (I liked to give hugs- seriously, try it. When they ask you if there's anything else you need, ask for a hug. Just don't get an erection because you don't want to interrupt the blood supply to your legs) and get back out on the trail. This can be hard at places like MayQueen, where they have this ridiculously long tent with heaters and benches. Very cozy when it's in the 30s outside and you're sweaty and dressed in shorts. Get what you need and get the fuck out.

If you're hurting, no more than 2 ibuprofin every 4 hours.

Eat some home-made cookies at the Hope Pass aid station. Stop and take in the view from there; easily the most beautiful section of the race. Don't forget to pet the llamas either.

Redundancy. Keep things you may need in several drop bags. Anticipate where you might need gloves, a pullover, etc. Keep extra flashlights and batteries in every drop bag you'll hit during the night section.

Will you have a crew. Make sure that they have a camera and that they use it. There'll be some great memories and chances for some great shots.

HAVE FUN!!!

**Tuckerman** · 08-12-2008, 01:22 PM

I only bring water if the run is 15 or more miles.

**steve** · 08-12-2008, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by edg

On a related note, do you guys take water on >10km runs? I get to about 12km and just bonk out and think this would help.

If so, how do you take liquid on a run without looking like a douchebag?

edg

http://www.nathansports.com/our_prod...n/hpl_020.html

... only on trail runs though. this would look pretty douchey on roads..