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Thread: Running, Anyone...?

  1. #3176
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,393
    I did some bigger alpine tours last winter with groups, and I was almost always the last guy to the top. OK I'm the oldest but still...

    So my goal this off season was to improve my cardio conditioning. I live at 6,000 feet and have mountains all around me. I'm not actually running but am training like a runner by hiking uphill, generally 1500 to 3000 of vertical feet 4 to 6 days a week.

    I discovered what all endurance athletes apparently have known for decades but was a secret to me...train slow (most of the time) to get faster.
    I found Maffetone then Seiler then 80/20 training.
    I wear a chest strap heart rate monitor and have the Polar app on my phone. Found my max heart rate and am enjoying training at 65 to 75% of max. I know that if I'm breathing steadily through my nose and can converse I'm in Zone 2, or Green on my Polar app.

    I think I have put in enough base building these last months to now do some high intensity work. Stairmaster and treadmill at the gym will be seeing more of me now that the mornings are dark.

  2. #3177
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Not in the PRB
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    34,625
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  3. #3178
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    612
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    That's crazy. I worked with Adam for a few years, and he'd be among the most fit people I know. Glad to hear he survived that scare, and I hope he's recovering ok. It definitely makes me rethink my approach to flying home right after my race next month.

    1 month to go now until Moab Trail Marathon, and I'm finally feeling stronger after being sick for a while early Sept. I got out for a solid weekend of training & mountain time, going up Mailbox Peak for vert on Sat (10mi, 4k') and then doing a 17mi thru-run Sunday from the Granite/I90 trailhead to the end of the Middle Fork via the old Pratt River Trail. Super cool to connect so many different kinds of terrain and forest. I also learned the hard way that the easy way to forget your aches and pains is to step on a ground hornet nest. 8 stings later, the remaining 6 miles out of the woods were not so comfortable.

    Lots of slow grinding is paying off, and like Beder, I'm looking forward to starting ski season in good shape.

  4. #3179
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Donner Summit
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    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general?
    Inov-8 has some shoes with spikes and minimal drop (3-6 mm). I have an older pair (Oroc 340s) and run with them on hardpack snow and ice, they work pretty well as long as the surface is firm (less well in softer snow). The spikes don't protrude much so you can run on pavement as well without sliding around too much.

    https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-270-mens
    https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-ultra-290-mens

  5. #3180
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
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    Quote Originally Posted by teledad View Post
    Inov-8 has some shoes with spikes and minimal drop (3-6 mm). I have an older pair (Oroc 340s) and run with them on hardpack snow and ice, they work pretty well as long as the surface is firm (less well in softer snow). The spikes don't protrude much so you can run on pavement as well without sliding around too much.

    https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-270-mens
    https://www.inov-8.com/us/oroc-ultra-290-mens
    Those look sweet. How wide is the toe box? My understanding is that Inov8 runs narrow in general and those are 2-3 on their width scale, so I'm pretty sure they won't work with my EE feet. Salomon has free returns so I bought a pair of the Spikecross and they were comically narrow in my size.

  6. #3181
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    1,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    There's abundant evidence that nose breathing is immensely important for overall health. James Nestor's Breath is a great read.

    For endurance training I'm not sure the evidence is there, except in an indirect way by forcing a slower pace as you said.
    Nice. "Breath" just actually popped up as available from my Libby hold list, so I'll read it soon. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    Is running barefoot a bad idea generally?
    I did it a little bit many years ago. I think it mostly comes down to this: do you want to run barefoot or do you want to run far/fast/frequently? It’s not a totally binary question, but in the short term (less than a year), it is somewhat binary because it takes so long to build up endurance of those leg muscles. In an ideal world, running 1x week of “grass loops” barefoot would be nice to help run easy, feel the terrain, and strengthen tiny muscles, but running barefoot all the time seems unreasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general?
    DTM, I bet you’ve done your research enough already but I’ll share two articles from IRF that could generate some thoughts):
    https://www.irunfar.com/editors-pick...ing-gear-guide
    https://www.irunfar.com/best-winter-...action-devices (in case you’re willing to check out more running specific spikes)

    Widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time, he is the 2016 and 2020 Olympic marathon champion and the world record holder in the marathon with a time of 2:01:09 set at the 2022 Berlin Marathon. He has run four out of the five fastest marathon times in history.
    Another mind-blowing race from the marathon GOAT, Eliud Kipchoge, in Berlin.

  7. #3182
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Donner Summit
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    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Those look sweet. How wide is the toe box? My understanding is that Inov8 runs narrow in general and those are 2-3 on their width scale, so I'm pretty sure they won't work with my EE feet. Salomon has free returns so I bought a pair of the Spikecross and they were comically narrow in my size.
    Yeah, they're narrow. I'm a D and they fit OK but they're definitely narrower than my regular trainers (Saucony Guides).

  8. #3183
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    just outside the bubble
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    1,702
    Completed a trail marathon on Saturday, my first marathon of any kind. All dirt and 90% singletrack including some pretty technical stuff. Overall a good mix of smooth, rocky, technical slabby sandstone, decomposed granite and quartz, and about 3600’ elevation gain. Never felt horrible but also never felt great. My thoughts that evening were ‘I have a better race in me’. So, looking forward to trying something similar next year. Learned some lessons and have a better idea of how to approach both training and race day.

    The only pic I took all day…

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    From a long training run I did on the course about a month ago…

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  9. #3184
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    写道
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    13,605
    Quote Originally Posted by stapes View Post
    My thoughts that evening were ‘I have a better race in me’.
    Yup. That shit sucks you in every fuckin' time.

    Congrats on your first.

    It'll be ultras soon.

    Don't ask me how I know.
    Your dog just ate an avocado!

  10. #3185
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
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    19,241
    Congrats!

  11. #3186
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    1,061
    Quote Originally Posted by 3pin View Post
    That's crazy. I worked with Adam for a few years, and he'd be among the most fit people I know. Glad to hear he survived that scare, and I hope he's recovering ok. It definitely makes me rethink my approach to flying home right after my race next month.

    1 month to go now until Moab Trail Marathon, and I'm finally feeling stronger after being sick for a while early Sept. I got out for a solid weekend of training & mountain time, going up Mailbox Peak for vert on Sat (10mi, 4k') and then doing a 17mi thru-run Sunday from the Granite/I90 trailhead to the end of the Middle Fork via the old Pratt River Trail. Super cool to connect so many different kinds of terrain and forest. I also learned the hard way that the easy way to forget your aches and pains is to step on a ground hornet nest. 8 stings later, the remaining 6 miles out of the woods were not so comfortable.

    Lots of slow grinding is paying off, and like Beder, I'm looking forward to starting ski season in good shape.
    If you can't change your flight plans, at least get some compression socks to wear post race and especially on the flight.

  12. #3187
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
    Posts
    10,323

    Running, Anyone...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general?
    What about something like this, Dan? https://armynavygear.com/products/yaktrax-snow-trax

    Our Costco sells them for less than $10. I used them through last winter on a steep trail that I’ve been hike/running. They work well on packed snow and ice, are light, easy on/off, and are a cheap enough that it’s not a big loss if they don’t work out.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  13. #3188
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    just outside the bubble
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    I got the Kahtoola nanospikes last year and they worked well for me. They have a few options. That irunfar article also covers them and other brands.

    https://kahtoola.com/shop/traction/

  14. #3189
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    GRRD
    Posts
    2,453
    I’ve never used real spiked winter run shoes but was thinking this is the year .

    Last few season used the Hoka ATRs as winter shoe and love the massive foam cushion A) to insulate from
    cold snow and and keep you up out if the slush B) they are like mini snow shoes with the wide surface area in general

    Might get a new pair and DIY some spikes …

  15. #3190
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Fraggle Rock, CO
    Posts
    8,015
    Used various watches and apps to track my runs since I started getting out regularly almost 10y ago. Then, a couple months ago, I stopped cuz I forgot my fancy watch someplace. It felt surprisingly good. Now when I get home I don't know how long I was gone or how far I went or what my heart rate was or any of that stuff.

    Anyone else forgo all the trackers and whatnot? The tech is pretty compelling but I'm not sure I was actually getting much out of it.

    Pretty out there this morning
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    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  16. #3191
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SW CO
    Posts
    1,183
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    Used various watches and apps to track my runs since I started getting out regularly almost 10y ago. Then, a couple months ago, I stopped cuz I forgot my fancy watch someplace. It felt surprisingly good. Now when I get home I don't know how long I was gone or how far I went or what my heart rate was or any of that stuff.

    Anyone else forgo all the trackers and whatnot? The tech is pretty compelling but I'm not sure I was actually getting much out of it.
    I found the same. I started competing with myself against my watch, took the fun out of it without me realizing it at first. I quit wearing the watch, don't care about time or distance and find I enjoy it a whole lot more. No watch or strava or anything else, I'm good thanks.

  17. #3192
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    Anyone else forgo all the trackers and whatnot? The tech is pretty compelling but I'm not sure I was actually getting much out of it.
    Looks great, Cruiser! In the past I set my Garmin to only show time, that way I'm not focusing on distance, elevation, etc., nearly as much - which I liked - but I can still have a record of the run for later down the road - which I also like.

  18. #3193
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    Apr 2008
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    just outside the bubble
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    Looks like a great day Cruiser. We’ve had some wonderful fall weather huh?

    I’m currently tracking miles/wearing a watch mostly cuz I was training for something all year. But in the past I’ve always went back and forth. For a handful of years I just ran without tracking anything. It is a nice change up especially after training and feeling like you have to run a certain amount.

    The Forrest approach….

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  19. #3194
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    slc
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    I Strava everything so that I can track my inevitable physical decline in all its painful anti-climactic glory.

  20. #3195
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    612
    I managed to sneak away for a long run on family vacation in Ireland, and did 20 miles of mind-blowing cliffside trail running bliss from Doolin > Cliffs of Moher > Liscannor and back along the Burren Way. Muddy, craggy, and often pretty airy, it was an unbelievably epic adventure.

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    Two weeks of tapering now before my first marathon, but that run will almost certainly wind up being my running highlight for the year. Regardless of how Moab goes, I'm pretty pumped that all the training's gotten me the ability to explore some of these rad places by foot and cover a lot of ground.

  21. #3196
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    ^^^ Oh dang
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  22. #3197
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    Apr 2008
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    Beautiful 3pin!!!

    Good luck with the marathon!

  23. #3198
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    Wow. These days I don't care much for pounding out flat miles but I would make an exception for that. Looks like you won the Ireland weather lottery, too.

  24. #3199
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    Apr 2016
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    Rad!

    Snowing around here - broke out the micro spikes for the first time the other day.

  25. #3200
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    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Anyone have recommendations for studded winter shoes, or opinions/experience regarding such shoes in general? We have a lot of summer trails that stay snow-packed and usable throughout most of the winter, but they're typically steep and foot traffic and melt-freeze cycles frequently create patches or extended stretches of glare ice. While I could just get some Nanospikes, a proper winter shoe with real studs, a non-absorbing outer, and will keep my toes warmer seems worth it.

    Pondering these:
    https://icebug.com/p/arcus-m-bugrip-gtx-midnightred
    https://icebug.com/p/pytho6-m-bugrip

    Also looked at the Salomon Spikecross but they're 10 mm drop which is more than I'd prefer.
    Not sure if you already purchased something but I made a thread last winter kind of along these lines that has some recs: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ICY?highlight=

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