NSR: Bertuzzi should be tossed out of the game

**fridge** · 03-10-2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
But that's not what happened. They were both going for the puck, Moore knew Naslund was there and didn't change his path. You don't have to get out of the way for people in this game. If Naslund had been keeping his head up he woulda been OK.
Keep your stick on the ice and your head up, kids!

Naslund did have his head down, but Moore still hit him in the head. The Nhl always talks about how it has to protect its star players. Did you watch the World Juniors this year? Dion Phaneuf layed a devastating hit on a Czech player (shoulder hit him in the face). Phaneuf gets 5 and a game. Now, international refereeing (sp?) is different..... Even if it looked clean, it was still (now I'm repeating myself) a head shot that knocked out a leading scorer for 3 games, and drew blood. It doesn't look like much of an elbow, and thats why there wasn't league action, but there should have been a penalty called in the game.

edit-None of this matters anyway, it's what Bertuzzi did that matters right now. Since that hit on Naslund I've watched Moore play a few times, and I don't especially like the way he plays, but he still didn't deserve this.

**Vinman** · 03-10-2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Canuk
Dude, are you a doctor? Do you know exactly where in this whole mele that one of his vertebrae was fractured?

If you know anything about how cervical fractures happen and I do. From watching the tape it looked to me like his neck was slightly flexed and the impact was to the top of the head as he hit the ice. This is the classic mechanism for cervical fractures. Its called axial loading. The same mechanism that causes fractures during spearing in football. IMHO there is no way the punch caused a cervical fracture. I was most definitely the impact on the ice along with the added 245 pounds of body weight of someone drivnging his head into the ice that caused the fracture. I just looked at the tape again and it looks like he was knocked out from the punch but I doubt the punch caused the fracture.

**Crinkle** · 03-10-2004, 03:57 PM

I heard this on AM radio yesterday think i'll throw this out there.

"if Moore was given even a 1 game suspension without pay, would this have occured???"

I thought it was a interesting point, since obviously the Canucks felt that they were wronged when the NHL ruled that it was a clean hit and did not punish Moore. But how many times did the guy have to fight?? (didnt watch the game but heard he dropped the gloves 2 times before Bertuzzi hit him). Also shame on Canucks manager(s) or whoever said there was a "bounty" out on Moore. Watch out this is going to be ugly for a while.

**Honc** · 03-10-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by fridge

edit-None of this matters anyway, it's what Bertuzzi did that matters right now. Since that hit on Naslund I've watched Moore play a few times, and I don't especially like the way he plays, but he still didn't deserve this.

Amen.

They gave McSorley a year. Should they do the same to Bertuzzi? He didn't give out a 2-hand but the effects appear to be worse. I think that the league has to take a firm stance.

I don't like Moore's play much either, but I guarantee that his career prospects outside of hockey are pretty bleak.

**Canuk** · 03-10-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Honc
Amen.

They gave McSorley a year. Should they do the same to Bertuzzi? He didn't give out a 2-hand but the effects appear to be worse. I think that the league has to take a firm stance.

You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.

There is already pretty good precident in place that says a sucker punch to the back of the head is worth 12 games - and that came from an incident where someone's career WAS ended.

Bert will get more than 12. If I was a betting man, my money would be on 20.

**Skidawg** · 03-10-2004, 04:16 PM

Just for the record here - McSorley's NHL punishment was one year, but he "retired" at the end of the 2000 season resulting in the actual suspension to be 23 games.

**Honc** · 03-10-2004, 04:17 PM

I'd like to take a quick time-out from this hockey debate to acknowledge Canuk's sig. That sketch is arguably the funniest SNL bit I have ever seen.

George W. offers the job of 'Secretary to the Interior' to his Chi-Chis waiter. Priceless.

**duph** · 03-10-2004, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by fridge

What Bertuzzi did was stupid. I feel sick for both of them (being a big fan of Bertuzzi). But watch highlights of what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom. He blatantly punched him in the back of the head, knocked him cold. Beukeboom had concussion problems, ended up retiring. Johnson got 12 games. How can you say Bertuzzi should be kicked out of hockey when Johnson only got 12 games for this? I know Moore is pretty seriously injured, but the incidents are comparable......

No. Not close to comparable. We're talking about a broken fucking neck here. Whether he was trying to seriously injure Moore is irrelevant. It was the ugliest, most gutless act the NHL has ever seen, resulting in a severe life changing injury. The punishment should be the harshest ever handed out by the league. The rest of this year and all of next, minimum.

**DaveTV** · 03-10-2004, 04:28 PM

What was galling to me was he was on top of him while he was face-down, continuing the pummeling while the guy was helpless and unconcious with a broken neck - had to be dragged off like he was an animal..

**duph** · 03-10-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Canuk
You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.

There is already pretty good precident in place that says a sucker punch to the back of the head is worth 12 games - and that came from an incident where someone's career WAS ended.

Bert will get more than 12. If I was a betting man, my money would be on 20.

The blind side sucker punch was bad in itself, but that's not the whole of it. The action of slamming an unconscious persons head into the ice with all of your weight on his neck, then continuing to beat him in his own pool of blood is far worse than any single stick swinging incident. This wasn't just a quick hit, it was a series of ugly actions by Bertuzzi.

And yes, you can and should punish based on the result.

The result and the actions are tied together. That's what happens when you do something of that magnitude - you break a person's fucking neck. If you shoot a person in the head, they die. Cause and effect are tied into one.

edit: If McSorley jumped on Brashear after knocking him out, and started beating him, then the incidents would be comparable.

**MacDaddy** · 03-10-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Canuk
Good luck getting anywhere in the post season with Tommy Salo as part of your dynamic goaltending duo. He's been brutal since he got hit in the head by Belarus.

Hey Canuk I respect your opinions especially because you are a hockey fan.
IMHO When Bertuzzi sucker punched him and deliberately drove him into the ice and punched him again,
I think his emotions got the best the best of him, I dont care what any one says I will always believe his act was premiditaded & he had the intent to hurt. Bertuzzi punched & drove the kid into ice, that is the bottom line. He's screwed and so is his team as they are not as strong with out him. Its too bad that such a stud has such little brain. I like Bertuzzi and I almost feel sorry for him. I just hope everyone learns from this.

FYI: Salo was not brought on to start. he will play behind David Aberischer.

I think this is what the Avalanche needed to play in the next level.(Red Wings) we will see tonight against EDM

**Canuk** · 03-10-2004, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Honc
I'd like to take a quick time-out from this hockey debate to acknowledge Canuk's sig. That sketch is arguably the funniest SNL bit I have ever seen.

George W. offers the job of 'Secretary to the Interior' to his Chi-Chis waiter. Priceless.

Aw...shucks. Thanks Honc. It's one of my all time favorites as well. Will Ferrell's GWB impression is a classic.

Duph - we are comparing a fractured vertibrae (which we do not no the severity of - I am sure there are a number of maggots here who have suffered a fractured vertibrae and still ski hard) with perminent brain injury. I think that the comparison is fair.

**jibij** · 03-10-2004, 04:45 PM

Bertuzzi's actions are clearly punishable, but is he the only one at fault? the league breeds this shit. i wasn't at the game, but accounts from Avs players and Granato is that Crawford stood in the box laughing during the incident. Granato was going off on him from over the glass when he saw his "body language". i'm sure Crawford changed his tone when he realized the severity, but regardless he apparently got a kick out of Bertuzzi's sucker-punch.
the coach shares some responsibility if he's reinforcing this kinda shit.

**duph** · 03-10-2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Canuk
Duph - we are comparing a fractured vertibrae (which we do not no the severity of - I am sure there are a number of maggots here who have suffered a fractured vertibrae and still ski hard) with perminent brain injury. I think that the comparison is fair.

Hmmm... I do see your point, though it wasn't Beukebooms first or second concussion. The next time Lindros gets laid out, his career probably will end, but it won't be due to a one time incident. It will be because he's had a bunch of them.

edit: Yeah jibij, that's a really good point. The Canucks as a whole should also be punished with a stiff fine or something. As well as severe punishment for the individual who carried out the act.

And agreed Canuk, 88 should 86 his career before he ruins his life.

**Squirrel99** · 03-10-2004, 04:57 PM

Well, one thing's for certain... this will take away some attention of the av's - red wings rivalry. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more quick whistles on the ice over the next few weeks and into the early rounds of the playoffs as the refs and league try to assert a little more control. Any word on Moore's condition?

**Canuk** · 03-10-2004, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by duph
Hmmm... I do see your point, though it wasn't Beukebooms first or second concussion. The next time Lindros gets laid out, his career probably will end, but it won't be due to a one time incident. It will be because he's had a bunch of them.

It will also be because Eric likes to skate around looking at his feet. That guy needs to hang it up.

I agree that hitting the poor kid while he was down was pretty weak. Bertuzzi definately let his emotions get the best of him and lost it, and he will have to pay the piper for it. It's too bad, because not only did he hurt Moore, he hurt his reputation, as well as his team's shot in the playoff's.

MacDaddy - I know that Tommy ain't going to start. My comment was just that of a slightly bitter Oilers fan getting one last dig on on a goalie that is way better than he played for the last two years.

Sorry for the hijack, but I heard an interesting rumour surrounding Salo, Mike Comrie, and why the Oilers played such hardball with the little puke (Comrie, not Tommy). Rumour has it that Mike was shagging Salo's wife, which is a big reason why the Oilers shipped him out. Like sands through the hourglass....

**FLEX** · 03-10-2004, 05:40 PM

I'm not a hockey fan so I'm not too concerned with the punishment but after viewing the tape ...I say the one punch hit him right on the button and he was out before he hit the ice, and the damage was done from face hitting the ice.....I hope he recovers fully and quickly

**Greydon Clark** · 03-10-2004, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Canuk

Sorry for the hijack, but I heard an interesting rumor surrounding Salo, Mike Comrie, and why the Oilers played such hardball with the little puke (Comrie, not Tommy). Rumor has it that Mike was shagging Salo's wife, which is a big reason why the Oilers shipped him out. Like sands through the hourglass....

Lindros was shagging a teammates wife in Philadelphia, can't remember who, he got traded, but not before he got an ass kicking in the locker room. What a fuckhead.

L7 · 03-10-2004, 06:33 PM

Yesterday's thread mentioned that Moore turned away when his jersey was grabbed. Today's and yesterday's mention that Bertuzzi's momentum caused him to 'fall on top' of Moore. I saw the clip two or three times last night including slo mo and I have to call bullshit on both counts. Moore turned toward the fist that he didn't see coming and only fell away (likely unconscious) after the punch. Bertuzzi was pulling back on the jersey to connect the hit and did not just 'fall on him'. He drove Moore's head quite purposefully and forcefully into the ice.

Did he really mean to do as much damage as he did? Probably not but he certain tried harder to maximize the damage then he tried to control the damage. The continued pummeling proves that. There were some interesting quotes in today's paper about. Do we want to wait until coroners are being called to arenas? It's getting worse and it was bad enough when the biggest star had to retire early in part due to repeated cheap shots from behind into the boards.

It doesn't matter if it gets better for a bit and 4 years later there's another brutal incident just a little worse than this one. The league, the coaches and the players have to fix it or there may not be much left to fix.

**powderpyg** · 03-10-2004, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Honc

Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him. I am all for teaching this kid a lesson, but have Bertuzzi drop his gloves and pummel him like a man.

Todd Bertuzzi skated full steam cross-ice, wound up and drilled Steve Moore in the side of the head, breaking his neck.

Number 1, you actually beleive that Moore's hit on Naslund was clean do you. He might have connected cleanly with his shoulder, but he left his skates from the ice and jumped at Naslund to make sure he hit him harder. Watch the replay, you'll see what I mean.

Number 2, Bertuzzi never skated full steam across the ice, wound up and drilled Moore in the head, breaking his neck. Again watch the replay, you'll see that Bertuzzi was skating behind Moore, pulling on his jersey trying to goad him into something, Moore turned and skated the other way, Bert grabbed his jersey again pulled himself forward and punched him with his glove on, which I'm sure never cracked his vertebrae. That most likely happened after his head hit the ice and Bert and others piled on.

Number 3, I agree that Bert is a cement head and needs to be suspended for his actions, but tossed from the game, get real.

Numder 4, I am again going to state, that, what the fuck was Tony Granato doing putting Moore on the ice in that situation for in the first place, it was only asking for trouble.

**powslut** · 03-10-2004, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Canuk
You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.

yeah, but who's to say that a hockey glove isn't a weapon? those things are fucking hard and i'm sure the reason that Moore got KO'd is because he caught the the thumb right in the temple.

fuck him. let him burn. in real life the consequences are what determines the punishment.

**maddog** · 03-10-2004, 10:51 PM

Where I work if I punch a co-worker, I get fired. If I get convicted of a felony, I get fired. If I fail a drug test, I get fired. If I choke my boss, I get fired. I'm boycotting all pro sports until I see a pro athlete get fired for for his immature, unprofessional and/or illegal conduct. They can all go straight to Texas (oops, I meant to say Hell)!

**jdabasin** · 03-11-2004, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by maddog
Where I work if I punch a co-worker, I get fired. If I get convicted of a felony, I get fired. If I fail a drug test, I get fired. If I choke my boss, I get fired. I'm boycotting all pro sports until I see a pro athlete get fired for for his immature, unprofessional and/or illegal conduct. They can all go straight to Texas (oops, I meant to say Hell)!

great point maddog!! didn't think of that one. I say launch Bertuzzi for as long as Moore is out and then add another month on top of that.

And I bet if I got caught fucking my boss' wife I assume I'd get fired also. The catch is that she also works for the company as an accountant. Do you think she'd get fired too if her husband/my boss found out we were bumping uglies?

not that we are.....

**DaveTV** · 03-11-2004, 08:18 AM

I am again going to state, that, what the fuck was Tony Granato doing putting Moore on the ice in that situation for in the first place, it was only asking for trouble.

So what were they supposed to bench him every time they played Vancouver? Bullshit. McSorley's lawyer was on CNN this morning, and he said the big dif with this case from a legal standpoint was PREMEDITATION..

**dewey** · 03-11-2004, 08:34 AM

Bertuzzzi out for the season!
he said, in an apology to Moore... "I never intended to hurt you..."
!?!?!?
what a fucking insincere sack of shit.
if you apologize, shouldn't you at least admit you totally fucked up royally?

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