Holy shit - a dude I used to work with got busted on "to catch a predator"!!!

[Sir Jongalot]

And a few people brought up "as the father of an 6 or 8 year old..." Well I think if its a victim that young it makes it far worse. On the show, most of the girls these guys are supposed to be meeting are just a little too young. In fact, they have to be careful where they set the sting, because some states, a lot of these guys wouldn't have been commiting a crime.

I don't get the anger you guys responded with though. I mean, I know that naturally people have feelings of anger and disgust when they hear about guys like this, but take a step back from those feelings for a second and look at your values and feeling about the whole human race. Isn't compassion always a good thing, even with (especially with) people that have done fucked up things?

Yeah Leroy I get your vibe bro, cause short guys like us sometimes gotta go for the young uns.

And those that condemn us yung luvers are just haters.

[The Reverend Floater]

I don't have kids and don't have much of an opinion on this but I do take solace in the fate of child sex offenders in prison, even if that's somehow wrong. The fact is that kids usually don't have a say or don't understand what's actually going on in these situations until it's way too late. You damned well better believe these folks know and understand what's happening to them when they're face down in a basket in the laundry room up state!

[PaSucks]

Research shows that nearly all sexual predators were victims at sometime themselves and there is no denying something has to be wrong inside their head.

This is absolutely true, but here is the catch. Everybody knows that pedophilia is ilegal (some exceptions) and wrong. While it may not be the pedophile's fault that he/she is a pedophile, it is without-a-doubt the pedophile's responsibility to do whatever is necessary to keep from acting out on their urges. The resources are there to help them do the right thing.

Of course, Leroy has a point about sensationalism and all, but fuck that. It's entertaining watching someones life go down the toilet. Thats all that counts on TV anymore.

[TeleHoar]

As a catholic priest I am getting a big kick out of these responses.

[Odin]

As a catholic priest I am getting a big kick out of these responses.

As a Catholic Bishop, I hope that you know you will need to go to me for confession to confess your perverted voyeurism.

[RootSkier]

By sucking your cock, reverend?

[bklyn]

Bingo. So by bklyn's logic, we should really empathize with these people, but oh wait, we can't do that, we need to act as if they are a separate species than us.

I don't know where you got that from, reading is truly fundamental. I have no empathy for them. I have consoled a few friends who have been molested when they were children. It's no laughing matter. There but for the grace of god go I, who remembers being a teenager/pre-teen who was curious about sex. When I was a kid, before the internet was widespread, the weirdos would occasionally hang around our school. 35-50 year old guys looking to be "boyfriends" with jr high and high school girls.

People become aware of their sexuality at a very young age. It is not the privilege, right, or option for adults to take advantage of their curiosity. If you ever read the transcripts, you'll see how quickly the perps turn the conversation to sex and send explicit pictures.

If you don't believe it, why don't you create a profile as a 13yr old boy or girl and see for yourself the smut that will be thrown your way?

The last time I watched the show, a guy arrived armed to the teeth - multiple shotguns and handguns. Do you really think he was going to take no for an answer? He was prepared to take what he wanted by force if necessary.

In any case, you can believe anything you want. My opinion is that the show and it's spectacle have informed the public about the types of people soliciting their children. These guys aren't looking to be friends with these kids, or even to enter into a lasting sexual relationship. They are looking to use children (preferably virgins) who are impressionable and easily manipulated for one night stands.

[Jumper Bones]

Holy crap, it was on tonight! Wow! Intense stuff.

The guy came in pretty high-strung, nervous as fuck to be there, and he definitely got suspicious. When Chris Hansen walked out, his eyes bugged out of his head, and he ended up drenching himself in sweat, and he was backpedaling with excuses to try and get out of it - 'please sir, they're sending me to Iraq next week' - which is complete bullshit since he's on profile due to "Irritable Bowel Syndrome" (no shit! Or, a lot of shit, so to speak) and can't leave the US. Anyway once the guy said he was from Dateline NBC, he started crying - you could see the guy realize he just threw his whole life thus far away.

from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19838639/page/5/

Then comes another suspect-- who will also try to play this as a big misunderstanding.

He’s 33-year-old Ernest Timmons, a mechanic for the United States airforce. Calling himself joketer34, he’s been chatting online about having sex with a girl who tells him she’s thirteen.

Joketer34: What do you want me to do??

[decoy]: Whatever u want

[decoy]:But I thought u watned the real thing

[decoy]: maybe u’re just dinking with my head

Joketer34: no I want the real thing

Joketer34: I am scared to get caught with a minor

[decoy]: then don’t tell anyone

Then the military man asks the decoy for a photo of her breasts.

Timmons comes to the house camera in hand. Online, he told the decoy that he wouldn’t be able to stay for long.

Decoy: Glad you could make it.

No idle chit chat for this man—he wastes no time making it clear he wants to get busy.

Decoy: Come sit down. I made some brownies. Do you want some?

Timmons: No thank you.

Decoy: Are you sure?Timmons: Yeah. Can we just go upstairs for a little bit?

Decoy: Oh, let’s just hang out here for a little bit. Why don’t you sit down?

Timmons: Okay I just need to get going here in a little bit.

Casey: His eyes were bugging out of his head. So I knew—he was either going to do something really quick or he was just going to take off.

Decoy: Weren’t you going to bring me lotion or anything?

Timmons: Oh. No, no, I don’t have any.

Decoy: Oh. ‘Cause I thought you were going to teach me some stuff, that’s all.

Timmons: Is everything okay?

Decoy: Yeah, everything’s fine.

Chris Hansen (walks out): Actually everything is just fine. But, I need you to have a seat right there for me.

Timmons: Yes, sir.

Hansen: The camera. Just have a seat please.

Now watch how fast his story changes- from a man appearing eager to take photos of our decoy—to a mere victim of circumstance---

Timmons: My friend told me to come here to take—bring the camera and—

Hansen: Your friend told you to come here?

Timmons: Yes, sir.

Hansen: And who’s your friend?

Timmons: A guy named Kevin.

Hansen: Kevin? And what’s Kevin’s last name?

Timmons: I don’t know.

Hansen: How long have you known this friend, Kevin?

Timmons: We just met on the base.

Hansen: So, you were going to come in and you have your camera ready and you say to the girl who you think is 13-- or your friend thinks is 13--

Timmons: I don’t know. Exactly.

Hansen: That you wanna run upstairs ‘cause you only have a little bit of time?

Hansen: Do you see why this does not make sense?

Timmons: Yeah. Yes, sir. I—perfectly—why you think I’m just as stunned as you are? How—

Hansen: Oh, you’re stunned because you got caught. That’s why you’re stunned.

Hansen: I think you’re telling a big fat lie to me right now.

Timmons: I’m not tellin’ you lies, sir.

Hansen: Doesn’t make sense.

Timmons: I know!

As the airforce mechanic sweats profusely he reveals he’s about to be deployed to Iraq.

Timmons: I leave in about a week and a half.

Hansen: And so, you—what? You stop by here for a quickie with a 13-year-old before you went over to Iraq?

Timmons: No, sir. I—was a joke.

Click for related content

* Online safety kit for parents and kids
* Chris Hansen: Behind-the-scenes commentary on N.J. investigation
* Answering your questions about the series

It turns out the 33-year-old military man is married. His wife’s picture is on the camera.

Hansen: Do you have kids?

Timmons: I have kids, yes.

Hansen: You have kids? How old’s your kid?

Timmons: She’s seven.

Hansen: Why would a man in the military with a wife and child at home come hustling nervous into this house with a camera and ask a—a—a—a girl you think is 13 to go upstairs to do what?

Timmons: I don’t know.

No matter how implausible the man’s story is, he sticks to it.

Hansen: Oh, here’s something. You seem concerned about seeing those TV shows of people getting caught. Have you watched those shows?

Timmons: No, sir.

Hansen: ‘Cause you’re about to be on one. I’m Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC and we’re doing a story on adults who try to meet kids online for sex.

Timmons: (crying) oh please, sir.

Timmons: I was told as a friend to come over. That was it.

Hansen: And that’s your story?

Timmons: That’s my story.

Hansen: And you’re stickin’ to it?

Timmons: Yes, sir.

Now we’ll get a chance to tell his story to the police.

And apparently the police don’t buy his story either. After he’s arrested police question him and later he’s brought before a judge who sets his bail at $50,000 dollars.

Judge: Mr. Timmons, your charges are attempted sexual assault and attempted luring. Bail is set at 50,000 no ten.

-

Here's some 'behind the scenes' from it:

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/...18/276777.aspx

10:44 p.m.
In this investigation we continue to see men from all walks of life and of all ages. Before the New Jersey operation is over we'll meet an engineer, a school bus driver, a former camp counselor, a retired fire fighter and, as you're about to see, a 33-year old Air Force mechanic named Ernest Timmons. He shows up after a sexually explicit conversation with a decoy posing as a 13-year-old girl. Watch how fast he moves after he comes into our house. I've never seen anything quite like this guy.

He's got his expensive digital camera in hand and ready to go as he tries to hustle Casey upstairs for some quick photos. There's a moment when our decoys tells him she wants to stay downstairs and talk first and that's when I sense he might be ready to take off. As I walk into the room and start to talk to him, he offers up his excuses: a big misunderstanding; a friend sent him.

While sweating profusely, he's sticking to his story. He tells me he's about to be deployed to Iraq. Apparently that's not going to be happening anymore.

[Rontele]

if its a maggot that is going to be busted, I have my money on splat

[snowsprite]

I feel really sorry for his wife and little girl. What a fucktard.

Sprite

[cmsummit]

I saw this last night. I couldn't believe how profusely that guy was sweating when Chris Hansen walked in. He deserves what's coming to him.

[Phill]

I feel really sorry for his wife and little girl. What a fucktard.

Sprite

Agreed on the fucktard part for sure. But part of this, might be how scared he was, is making me wonder about something. The guy (jumper's friend) didnt seem violent, is it right to basically fuck someones whole life for one mistake?? IDK I can definently understand the flipside, especially for parents, cause the thought of a 28 y.o. with a 13 year old is kind of disgusting on a gut level.

But the guy had a life, a wife and a child, whom he presumably loved. Could be just a regular guy, who made a huge mistake and now his life is fuckt. IDK really what I think of this

[TeleHoar]

Apparently most all of these "to catch a predator" cases aren't even going to trial. Th DA's don't want to touch them. Unfortunately the guy will probably get off.

[pappag]

Apparently most all of these "to catch a predator" cases aren't even going to trial. Th DA's don't want to touch them. Unfortunately the guy will probably get off.

Link?

678

[TeleHoar]

O'Reilly was saying this very thing last night.

I found this on Wikipedia, I think this may be what he was refering to:

In November 2006, Perverted Justice announced that another To Catch a Predator sting had been conducted with law enforcement in Murphy, Texas. There were 25 men who arrived at the filming location over four days, with law enforcement investigating additional suspects. Most notably, these additional suspects, who conducted chats but did not arrive at the undercover house, included Rockwall County assistant district attorney Louis W. Conradt Jr., who shot and killed himself on November 5, 2006 at his home when police attempted to serve him with a search warrant.[12] His estate, managed by his sister Patricia Conradt, is suing Dateline for US$100 million[13]

This sting was also notable because it prompted protests from local residents, who opposed the fact that law enforcement officials were purposely attracting sexual predators to their neighborhood. Others countered that these predators were already in the area (or close by) and that this sting revealed them to be sex offenders. This investigation aired on February 13, 2007 and February 20, 2007.

On June 1, 2007, all 23 cases brought up against those arrested on this installment of the show were declined to be prosecuted by the Collin County prosecutor's office due to insufficient evidence.[14] The cases were not expected to be considered again. This marks the first segment in which local law enforcement has declined an invitation to prosecute suspects involved in the show.

[The AD]

But the guy had a life, a wife and a child, whom he presumably loved. Could be just a regular guy, who made a huge mistake and now his life is fuckt. IDK really what I think of this

Well, it's one hell of a mistake. I probably shouldn't, but I have to admit I feel sorry for some of these guys.

[LT]

Agreed on the fucktard part for sure. But part of this, might be how scared he was, is making me wonder about something. The guy (jumper's friend) didnt seem violent, is it right to basically fuck someones whole life for one mistake?? IDK I can definently understand the flipside, especially for parents, cause the thought of a 28 y.o. with a 13 year old is kind of disgusting on a gut level.

But the guy had a life, a wife and a child, whom he presumably loved. Could be just a regular guy, who made a huge mistake and now his life is fuckt. IDK really what I think of this

Kind of disgusting? One mistake? This guy was attempting to have sexual relations with a 13 year old, that's more than minor in my and most peoples opinion. A minor infraction this was not. He interacted with her on-line and then went to the house to meet her, this is obviously not an instance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hopefully they've caught him before he can ruin his little girls life or any of her friends lives. This guy is a predator and deserves to have his life ruined.

[13]

Apparently most all of these "to catch a predator" cases aren't even going to trial. Th DA's don't want to touch them. Unfortunately the guy will probably get off.

false.

please see:
http://www.perverted-justice.com/

[timnormandin]

I have children--boys and girls--and I agree with Leory Jenkins's assessment of the TV show (Though LJ did once call me a freak..) To my mind, the show promotes fear and helplessness--something we Americans are indulging in quite a bit these days. There's also a smug self rightousness to it--and shows like "Cops" etc.--that I don't care for. There are indeed evil bastards in this world that need to be avoided. I don't need a TV show to teach me or my children that lesson.

[Spats]

The only thing worse than Pedophilia is .... nothing. Even murder doesn't rate IMHO.

I call bullshit. Would you rather be:
1) Lured into a terrible decision by someone older, smarter, and more manipulative
2) Dead

Our consumer culture has found that it's possible to make heaps of money by sexualizing girls at a younger and younger age -- without preparing them to make the important decisions that go along with sexuality, because that part doesn't make anyone any money. Business is all about growth, and we have successfully made teenage girls into consumers of cosmetics, revealing clothes, perfumes, etc. Just pick up a "teen" magazine while you're waiting in line at the supermarket. Or go see a "teen" movie, in which the actors are usually well into their 20s.

This constant barrage of sexuality is seen by men as well as girls, with the expected effect on both. The men should be old enough to know better and control themselves, but really, what the hell do we expect to happen?

This does not excuse anyone's behavior, which they freely chose knowing the consequences. Just because you see a bicycle unlocked doesn't give you the right to steal it. But if we're going to market the hell out of teen sexuality, we shouldn't be surprised when some men act on it, legal or not.

Unfortunately, addressing this problem is a lot harder than feeding a few people to the lions. It's easy to take a moral stand when it requires no effort beyond sitting on the couch and watching TV, which you were going to do anyway.

I will be the first to admit that I don't have a solution beyond what we're already doing.

[woodstocksez]

I call bullshit. Would you rather be:
1) Lured into a terrible decision by someone older, smarter, and more manipulative
2) Dead

Our consumer culture has found that it's possible to make heaps of money by sexualizing girls at a younger and younger age -- without preparing them to make the important decisions that go along with sexuality, because that part doesn't make anyone any money. Business is all about growth, and we have successfully made teenage girls into consumers of cosmetics, revealing clothes, perfumes, etc. Just pick up a "teen" magazine while you're waiting in line at the supermarket. Or go see a "teen" movie, in which the actors are usually well into their 20s.

This constant barrage of sexuality is seen by men as well as girls, with the expected effect on both. The men should be old enough to know better and control themselves, but really, what the hell do we expect to happen?

This does not excuse anyone's behavior, which they freely chose knowing the consequences. Just because you see a bicycle unlocked doesn't give you the right to steal it. But if we're going to market the hell out of teen sexuality, we shouldn't be surprised when some men act on it, legal or not.

Unfortunately, addressing this problem is a lot harder than feeding a few people to the lions. It's easy to take a moral stand when it requires no effort beyond sitting on the couch and watching TV, which you were going to do anyway.

I will be the first to admit that I don't have a solution beyond what we're already doing.

Bravo, Spats. That's some quality stuff.

The solution (a good part, anyway) is earlier in your post (stop sexualizing girls at a younger and younger age), though it may not be easy to come by. I hasten to add that this does not mean that we shouldn't provide sex education to children and teenagers.

I'm also put off by the easy moralizing in which people often engage on this issue. There's nothing magic about 18. Obviously, some age is too young (though that varies among individuals) and obviously (to me, anyway) age differential is part of the moral calculus (15 and 13? Perhaps not wise, but not creepy. 45 and 13? Creepy.). I even think that, legally, we've got to pick an age and stick with it (though we might add age differential to the legal rule as well - actually, I think it may already be in some places), notwithstanding that YMMV certainly applies in these situations.

Two more cents.

[Phill]

This does not excuse anyone's behavior, which they freely chose knowing the consequences. Just because you see a bicycle unlocked doesn't give you the right to steal it. But if we're going to market the hell out of teen sexuality, we shouldn't be surprised when some men act on it, legal or not.

It is beyond this. The girls in these "sting" ops are not just unlocked bicycles they are unlocked bicycles that actively help themselves get stolen. Ok that analogy sucks but what I am trying to say is these "girls" that the "criminals" solicited sex from are actively participating in building this inappropriate relationship. Ultimately as you said the "criminal" should realize this is wrong and not go through with it, just as a person should not steal a bike. But unlike a bike which is just sitting there these "girls" are encouraging an illicit relationship which in most cases probably would not occur with out their encouragement.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

I call bullshit. Would you rather be:
1) Lured into a terrible decision by someone older, smarter, and more manipulative
2) Dead

Our consumer culture has found that it's possible to make heaps of money by sexualizing girls at a younger and younger age -- without preparing them to make the important decisions that go along with sexuality, because that part doesn't make anyone any money. Business is all about growth, and we have successfully made teenage girls into consumers of cosmetics, revealing clothes, perfumes, etc. Just pick up a "teen" magazine while you're waiting in line at the supermarket. Or go see a "teen" movie, in which the actors are usually well into their 20s.

This constant barrage of sexuality is seen by men as well as girls, with the expected effect on both. The men should be old enough to know better and control themselves, but really, what the hell do we expect to happen?

This does not excuse anyone's behavior, which they freely chose knowing the consequences. Just because you see a bicycle unlocked doesn't give you the right to steal it. But if we're going to market the hell out of teen sexuality, we shouldn't be surprised when some men act on it, legal or not.

Unfortunately, addressing this problem is a lot harder than feeding a few people to the lions. It's easy to take a moral stand when it requires no effort beyond sitting on the couch and watching TV, which you were going to do anyway.

I will be the first to admit that I don't have a solution beyond what we're already doing.

Good post Spats, but to your first post I would argue that depending on the consequences later in life to option 1, option 2 might actually be better.

Unfortunately, option 2 is a very real option sometimes in cases like this. Some of these guys may just be stupid dweebs making bad decisions and looking for a little play with a young girl. Others may have much darker intentions.

Some of these guys could have been like this guy:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289968,00.html

The local news is saying he's a suspect in multiple disappearances of young girls.

As for feeling sympathy for them? Nope. Not here. One of the hallmarks of a respectable person is the ability of that person to make the right decisions. These guys know right from wrong, and they damn well know what they're doing is wrong. A misunderstanding, a girl of 13 who tells someone she's 19, I could understand a guy getting into that situation. But when he knows she's 13 he's made the wrong decision, he knows it, and he should suffer the consequences of his actions. One of those consequences might be having his life publicly ruined on national TV. Guess he should have made better decisions.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

...But unlike a bike which is just sitting there these "girls" are encouraging an illicit relationship which in most cases probably would not occur with out their encouragement.

Blame the victim - a young, immature, and emotionally needy girl who may really not know what she's getting into or how her actions will affect her in the years to come.

Blame the perp - a grown man who, though he may indeed have emotional/mental problems knows what he's doing is wrong and completely inappropriate.

I'm confused, which one makes more sense?

There is such a thing as personal responsibility. More people taking some of it would go a long ways towards fixing problems like this.

[Phill]

Good post Spats, but to your first post I would argue that depending on the consequences later in life to option 1, option 2 might actually be better.

I don't think that there could ever be a good argument for option two. You always have a chance to do something to change your situation while you are alive. Even if your going to be miserable for you entire life, which I think is easily avoidable IMO, you still only get ~80 years to live, you have eternity to be dead.

Unfortunately, option 2 is a very real option sometimes in cases like this. Some of these guys may just be stupid dweebs making bad decisions and looking for a little play with a young girl. Others may have much darker intentions.

Yes, I agree some of these sex criminals are violent deranged people but what I think spats was talking about with the sexualization of teenagers point was that more and more "normal" guys, whose only crime is lacking even a halfway decent amount of self control, could end up in this position. From reading the transcript of Jumpers friend I'm fairly certain he falls into the dweeb category rather than the axe-murderer one, but then again you cant be sure which could be a problem. As for how to separate the losers who make poor decisions and should get, imo, <5 years and some common-sense classes, from those who are truly deranged and who should get, imo again, life, I dont have a clue.

As for feeling sympathy for them? Nope. Not here. One of the hallmarks of a respectable person is the ability of that person to make the right decisions. These guys know right from wrong, and they damn well know what they're doing is wrong. A misunderstanding, a girl of 13 who tells someone she's 19, I could understand a guy getting into that situation. But when he knows she's 13 he's made the wrong decision, he knows it, and he should suffer the consequences of his actions. One of those consequences might be having his life publicly ruined on national TV. Guess he should have made better decisions.

To me people who make these decisions are more often than not stupid. They really can't comprehend the consequence of what they are doing, they know its wrong but they cant work out in their head why they shouldnt have sex with a willing female regardless of her age. Do we have the right to fuck with people because they are stupid, something which is no fault of their own?




Editing in a response to this:

Blame the victim - a young, immature, and emotionally needy girl who may really not know what she's getting into or how her actions will affect her in the years to come.

Blame the perp - a grown man who, though he may indeed have emotional/mental problems knows what he's doing is wrong and completely inappropriate.

I'm confused, which one makes more sense?

There is such a thing as personal responsibility. More people taking some of it would go a long ways towards fixing problems like this.

I agree with the personal responsibility thing but why are we always looking to cast blame? And to cast it in one place? But if we are casting blame, I would venture to say that while most of it should land on the perp. Some of the blame belongs to the parents, seriously people if your daughter is getting into this then your doing something wrong. And I also think some blame should go to the girl too. She may not have a full conception of how her actions will affect her later but I would argue that in most cases neither does the perp. And she (the victim) just like the perp does know what she is doing is wrong.