One Ski Quiver?

[Pierre LeCouloir]

I'm sorry. It had to be done.

[shirk]

Have a look at next years Watea 94 or the 192 Watea. I belive it to be the evolution of the Atua. 186 94 waist and about a 22m turning radius and square tail.

I picked up a pair of the 192 Watea's (134-101-124 25m radius) and love them. I skied my Super Stiff Bros and the 193 iM103 and didn't feel at home on either ski. Since the first run I havn't found a single condition or situation that I didn't love the skis. Even with the higher side cut you can still arch huge turns or short radius. I've stood on a few hard packed steeps and they hold an edge no problem. They hand flex soft, but I have no hesitation straightlining anything I would and did on my 103 Monsters. Where my stiff skis would kill me after a couple hours in the trees these are wonderful and I am not toasted by the end of the day.

For next season I want to either mount this set with Dukes and then get a pair of the 94's to mount with Dynafits. Or just get another pair of the 101's and mount then with Dynafits. My idea is that if Spirit 3's with a few mods feel stiff enough to be my one boot for in-bounds and touring then have the same alpine and touring ski so that things always feel the same. No messing around with skiing things that feel different.

[Hicks]

Thanks guys for all your input so far. Quite a few options left to check out.

The 183/184 ballpark is mainly for the really tight spots and sometimes ridiculously crappy conditions we get here, otherwise I could have just continued skiing on the 188 ss Bros.

Shirk, I hear you but did you try the Wateas in such spots and how much of a bitch are they to slog around on a long bootpack climb? Mountaineering will be a major emphasis (and I'm twice your age so call me 'Daddy' )

Weightwise the Verdict looks interesting but doesn't have a wood core, right?
S.O. told me the 07/08 Mantras come wider underfoot and stiffer, true? If so that could be what I'm looking for.

I have too many skis back home just collecting dust so streamlining my quiver makes perfect sense.

[hemas]

Hicks, how about the trusted Atomic Sugar Daddy in 183...

As for the new Mantra, well it's wider but the construction is the same... So should not be "stiffer"... Of course the few extra mm in wideness might make it a bit stiffer.

Or as shirk said, the new 94 Watea would be swell ski... Not a full twin like the Atua.

Also Blizzard Argos or Big Akira might be good options (w/ Blizzard branded Dukes).

[HitMe]

As for the length, I skied some pretty tight and messy conditions in Verbier the lest few weeks and its amazing how much easier a 184 Mantra is than a 190 Explosive. Its not that the longer ski is that hard to ski in these conditions, but when swapping back and forth it is very evident how much more relaxed you can be on the shorter (and slightly less agressive) Mantra. I would myself never choose a ski based on this "easyness" (I'm VERY willing to pay the price of some more work in these situations to gain some things in other areas) but it is still interesting to notice the difference.

Regarding the 07/08 Mantras, they are supposedly slightly stiffer and 2mm wider underfoot and 3mm front and back (so slightly turnier). I have not skied the 08, but from my general experience I think the character of the ski will stay pretty much the same. A few mm give or take will not do much for float in pow. Flex changes is just as important. My prediction is that slightly stiffer and slightly wider will make pow float feel similar but make hard snow performance slightly better.

[verbier61]

skis I guess you would like:

scott santiago pure
rossi squad (check 'em for cheap on ebay)
DPS wailer 105 or lotus 120
armada ant

[hemas]

Regarding the 07/08 Mantras, they are supposedly slightly stiffer and 2mm wider underfoot and 3mm front and back (so slightly turnier). I have not skied the 08, but from my general experience I think the character of the ski will stay pretty much the same. A few mm give or take will not do much for float in pow. Flex changes is just as important. My prediction is that slightly stiffer and slightly wider will make pow float feel similar but make hard snow performance slightly better.

The importer I was chatting with, said that the core and all are the same, just the few mm wider. So flex "should" be the same... Naturally the few mm will make the ski a tad stiffer, and the effective stiffness will at least be there (same stiffness, but the wider ski will "feel" stiffer when skiing).

Though, mebbe the rep. was full of it... Pagin' Sqauretail.

[Hicks]

Hemas, already got 180 Heli Daddys which are Sugars with the kicked up tail cut off. Skis pretty short too and like a wood core ski better but will give it another shot interimly. Will check out your other suggestions.

HitMe, hoped they just beefed it up underfoot, increased sidecut is not what I'm actually looking for. Jump turns on steeps, not carving capabilities.

Verbier, regular Pures aren't beefy enough underfoot and Ants flexed too soft for my taste. Will look into your other proposals.

[hemas]

Old Titan Pro... Learn to live with the 193 lenght

[PeterK]

Regarding the 07/08 Mantras, they are supposedly slightly stiffer and 2mm wider underfoot and 3mm front and back (so slightly turnier). I have not skied the 08, but from my general experience I think the character of the ski will stay pretty much the same. A few mm give or take will not do much for float in pow. Flex changes is just as important. My prediction is that slightly stiffer and slightly wider will make pow float feel similar but make hard snow performance slightly better.

I skied the 06/07 Mantra in the morning and the 07/08 in the afternoon about two weeks ago, both in the 184 cm length. As you already guessed, the difference between them is hardly noticeable. The 07/08 felt ever so slightly more stable at speed compared to the 06/07 but that might have been more of a placebo effect than anything else...


My day-to-day ski is the 05/06 Mantra, mounted 1.5 cm back. I forgot to check if the mount point is different between the different model years or if it stayed the same.

[HitMe]

Hicks, Hemas, PeterK:

About mounting, I have mine 2cm back and it works like charm. I have tried the 184 also mounted 1cm forwards, on the line and 1cm back. For pist skiing, particularly slow on small hills, on the line is nice. For all round use, I would say anywhere from 1 to 2cm back is best (based on 305mm boots).

About sidecut: It is indeed +3, +2, +3 so there is more sidecut, but 1mm more is nothing in practice as PeterK also indicates. Remember that the Explosive is a full cm narrower in the top with about the same waist as the Mantra. Now we're talking noticeable difference.

Regarding stiffness: If memory serves, Squaretail wrote in an earlier thread the 08 is slightly stiffer because the wood core extends slightly more forwards (but the construction as such is the same). Other sources have been saying the same stiffness though, but even if the construction (incloding core length) is exactly the same, 3mm+ up front should mean around 5% stiffer.

[pechelman]

Weightwise the Verdict looks interesting but doesn't have a wood core, right?

This years and all past have been foam.

Next years version which is already on bdel's euro website is being advertised with a wood core (as are the rest of their lineup).

[shirk]

Thanks guys for all your input so far. Quite a few options left to check out.

The 183/184 ballpark is mainly for the really tight spots and sometimes ridiculously crappy conditions we get here, otherwise I could have just continued skiing on the 188 ss Bros.

Shirk, I hear you but did you try the Wateas in such spots and how much of a bitch are they to slog around on a long bootpack climb? Mountaineering will be a major emphasis (and I'm twice your age so call me 'Daddy' )

Weightwise the Verdict looks interesting but doesn't have a wood core, right?
S.O. told me the 07/08 Mantras come wider underfoot and stiffer, true? If so that could be what I'm looking for.

I have too many skis back home just collecting dust so streamlining my quiver makes perfect sense.

I certainly didn't find them to be too heavy. The 94's will be lighter obviously. I havn't read all of the Ski Weight thread but maybe the 08 weights are in there already. The 101's are wood core with a great feel. Maybe check if you can demo a pair of there in your euro land.

There should be a bunch of demo tents set up at WB here shortly so I'll try and demo them for you.

[Hicks]

Many worthy suggestions to look into, thanks a bunch guys.
Will let you know what I ended up on but that'll take a while I guess.

Edit: might add Kingswood midfats to the list in a 185 length.

[The Dad]

I haven't skied them, but I'm hearing fantastic things about the 185 Black Diamond Kilowatt. 127-95-116, 24.5m radius. 3.5 kg/pair in 175. Wood core.

Lou Dawson's review here.

[ulty_guy]

if anyone's interested in the 190 vct's, they've got 'em here for only $250

http://store.d-structure.com/usa/pro...3e1b65f602a97d

[Gary]

For me, I'd say a one ski quiver would be:

ak rocket swallowtails
ants
possibly 189 squads, though i haven't skied them yet
maybe some mojo 105s or 103s

Good job reccommending a ski you haven't been on, retard.

[Roo]

Buy my Spatulas and sack up.

[axebiker]

1992 205cm Rossi 7XK

One ski quiver = Bigfoot
Non-existant.

Right now, for me it would be my Rossi BC's.

[fonixmunkee]

Hey, I hear that Atomic makes a ski billed exactly as the "one-ski quiver." Maybe you should give that a shot.

[Smails]

Another vote for the Mantra. I skied the '08 the other day and they are just a solid ski. Compared to the 08 Gots I skied, I felt like you could ski the Mantra in a much more aggressive forward stance. The Gots wanted to be smeared and popped off the tail . . . A lot of fun in powder, but not as well rounded. The Gots made some nice GS turns, but that was on soft spring snow. On icy patches the performance was poor as compared to the Mantra. Not poor for a powder ski, but poor compared to the Mantra.

The other thing I loved about the Mantra was that they were stout and there when I needed them, but where also an easy ride. You usually don't find both characteristics in one ski. Compared to a ski like the LP, which IMO can only be skied properly when bombing super-g turns, the Mantra is world better in the versitility department. If I were bombing wide open runs the LP would be my only choice. If I was out on a deep powder day and I wanted a ski that would rip up the pow but also work on groomers the Gots would be my choice. But if I wanted to do everything and ski hard snow, deal with narrower east coast trails and east coast crowds I see most days, the Mantra would be my choice.

[StroupSkier]

Kingswood mid-fats.

[Evmo]

Good deal here: http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/sho...oducts_id=2229

They have it in 184

[Hicks]

Buy my Spatulas and sack up.

Watching in the first row seat how you screw up big time on them here I'd say I decline.

[vertigo]

186 legend pros can do everything, stiff but so easy to turn, good in all conditions.