Beginer Tele gear

[PaSucks]

I want to start doing some tele next year because, well, PA is easy and I need some challenge to keep things interesting. I need some gear. I figure I can probably find some decent used skis and bindings. I know nothing about tele gear. What type of bindings are out there? What do you think I could score at a good price used that performs and is reliable? Skis? What would a tele jong need? Boot? Figure I'll go with new boots. Any brands better than others?

I know, search function blah blah. Couldn't find anything that really answered my questions.

[mntlion]

fit the boots just like your alpine boots, 1cm shell fit and tight. Buy them almost as stiff and tall as your alpine boots, unless you just plan on walking/touring not skiing with them.

skis, you will not be as good on tele (to start with) so go shorter, and softer then your alpine stuff, upgrade when and if you like tele. You don't have to buy tele specific stuff, skis is skis

bindings: no fucking idea, but for starters I think that most will work similar

buy knee pads.

ask on telemarktips.com too

[GapersGoHome]

My beginner setup was:

Garmont SynerG
BD 02's
Rossi T3's.

I think it was the perfect package.

Go for three-buckle boots, so you can still tour, and not feel like you have a cast on your feet (I felt like I learned how to balance/ pressure the pinky toe more with the Garmonts, as opposed to my 4-buckle CX-R's). Edit: Keep in mind that a softer boot won't drive big skis as well, so if you're planning on mounting up some big skis, go with a 4-buckle, but leave the top one unbuckled until you get the hang of it. Also, think about a demo boot - the bellows will be nice and broken in.

Get some bindings that are somewhere between neutral and active, so you can get a feel for what you like. I would think that the hammerheads would be a good choice, since they have an adjustable underfoot pivot that tunes the active feel of the bindings... Or go with some 02s. They worked well for me. You just wouldn't want to go with (on one extreme) Bomber Bishops or (on the other) Riva Z's.

As far as skis go, go narrower / shorter / softer than you would normally on alpine. I'm pretty sure I may have met death if I had tried to mount up my motherships on my first run; now, after 30 days, I'm contemplating mounting them up...

With any luck, you'll get the turn down after 10-15 days. Good luck!

Check out TTips, too. Some great threads over there.

[carlh]

i disagree on the low boots thing i learned and ski in garmont energys. boots are more important by alot, be careful when buying tele boots that the flex of the bellows in at the same point where your foot flexes this is super important. generally scarpas narrow feet, garmonts fit wide feet. fit fit fit is what is important, find a decent bootfitter who knows there stuff.
as for skis i agree with softer and shorter, i learned on k2 world pistes and thought they worked well for that, but outgrew them quickly, but i bought a used pair with g3 bindings, skied them for 2 months then sold them for most of what i bought them for.
bindings, at first dont worry too much, as you get better you might prefer an active binding (hammerheads or plates) but learning on something more neutral i think is better for your balance, but not critical.
lastly take a lesson or too and dont be afraid to faceplant

[PaSucks]

Can you explain the difference between and active vs. nuetral binding? I think I have an idea, but would like some clarification.

[MrDirt]

The best tele gear for a beginner is...

MOVE THE FUCK OUT OF PENNSYLVANIA.

[Tri-Ungulate]

What type of bindings are out there? What do you think I could score at a good price used that performs and is reliable? Skis? What would a tele jong need? Boot? Figure I'll go with new boots. Any brands better than others?

Bindings: cheapest, most reliable bindings new are Voilés. Used, pretty much anything comes available sooner or later on the TTips Gear Swap board, so you have your choice. Some people consider Voilé Hardwires on the neutral side, which some people like (I'm partial to more neutral bindings myself) but for people switching over from alpine gear, active bindings seem to be preferred - the Voilé 3-pin Hardwire is slightly more active, though not as active as others.

Boots are a matter of fit, brand quality is roughly equivalent. What kind of foot do you have? Flat feet, larger volume tend to work well with Crispis, more arch also larger volume foot Garmont and narrower feet more arch Scarpa - these are general rules of thumb only. Try them on and go with the one that fits you best, and use the same fitting guidelines as you would for alpines as mentioned above. As for how burley a boot, people switching over from alpine tend to like bigger boots, though I'm one of those who think that slightly lower boots are good as they teach better balance habits, YMMV.

Skis are skis as has been mentioned. For east coast, I'd go narrower than out west, just like you would with alpines. Something easy to ski and cheap is a good start, maybe Solly All Mountains or even X-screams can be got almost free and they are good starter skis. Similarly Rossi Bandit XX or B2s or B3s are OK, and if you outgrow them and toss 'em they were cheap to begin with. Stuff like that - something you wouldn't mind skiing alpine that's not too demanding, gives reasonable performance and can be found cheap used.

Can you explain the difference between and active vs. nuetral binding? I think I have an idea, but would like some clarification.

Active bindings pressure the tips sooner as the boot bends forward into the tele turn, neutral does so later and feels a bit "floppier". Has a lot to do with the pivot point of the hinge, as well as other design parameters. It is not the same as lateral stability, as you can have very laterally stiff bindings that are neutral (like the Bishop Bomber on setting 1) or less laterally stiff bindings that are very active (like the BDEL 02s). I have my own ideas re: lateral stability outlined in this post. Adherents to both active and neutral exist - I'm in the neutral camp, though that's in large part 'cause I've been tele-ing since the days of leather and 3-pins and that's how I learned. As mentioned above, people switching over these days tend to seem to like more active bindings.

[hemas]

As mentioned above, people switching over these days tend to seem to like more active bindings.

That's mostly 'cause they don't actually want to learn the stuff... And want to take the short-cut.

Active bindings are a great tool, once you have the technique dialed down... Too bad, that some peeps seem it's important to rip from the beginning and not bother with stuff like technique and finesse.

Boots & skis, like Mntlion and Tri-U said... For binders, well Voile HardWire is cheap, robust and has enough lateral stability. Voile VP-2 is even better in that regard, but as it is discontinued it is also a lot harder to find.

Since you'll prolly be doing a lot of lift assisted skiing in Pa, step-in & brakes plus really laterally stabile binder is also the TeleBulldog (22-designs sells 'em).

Just my 0.02€ from across the pond...

[half-fast]

if you end up going with a burly boot-go for a more active binding

[adrenalated]

Tri-U nailed it, IMO.
I'd also add that if you have an older pair of alpine skis you're not using, slap tele binders on them and go.

[hemas]

if you end up going with a burly boot-go for a more active binding

No need, you can ski burly boots and still use neutral bindings... Same goes for skis.

Guess which binders MT, LB and Prof use... And where it is on the neutral-active axel.

And guess what kind of skis those guys rock, or what kind of boots?

Active binders are great for peeps who have a solid technique, but they'll teach awful & sloppy technique for beginners (or rather... they are not teaching anything... Active binders = training wheels ).

Though, for beginners I'd shun faway rom Crispi XR and Scarpa TRace (the white one) as they would prolly be too stiff for most beginners.


Still, PA_Sucks has enough time (and some extra $$$) wait until this fall, and buy those nifty NTN-boots (Scarpa's or Crispi's) and binders... The same boots will also work with touring binders (atleast if you glue/bolt a small shim under the bellows to the binder), plus the Scarpa offering will even work with Dynafits. So, if you have the extra $$$ and plan on doing some touring (w/ AT) in the future, you could save some money by getting the NTN (no need to get additional AT-boots).

[TahoePowShredder]

don't bother with a "beginner" setup. spend the $$$ and get a good setup. if you're a decent alpine skier, you hopefully won't be a beginner for too long. get a burly boot i.e. Scarpa T1 or better, and get a ski that you would ski for either alpine of tele. personally I like a 188 twin tip with about 92-100 underfoot with not too much radius. you can even go bigger, I was thinking possibly the Mantra for next season. I have a soft ski that is only a 180 in length and it's not enough ski at all for me.

i know plenty of people that got a cheap boot initially for tele and after not too long they advanced and are much looking forward toward a bigger burly boot. I got a t1 and I am stoked cause I don't have to worry about upgrading anytime soon. the most expensive part of the tele setup is the boot, skis and bindings are easy to come by obviously.

good luck on your adventure. I got into tele this year, and I love it. after alpine skiing my whole life tele is the answer to being entertained on days that aren't perfect chest deep powder. also, when you advance enough, those days as well will be radical for tele. I am lookin forward to putting together a huge powder ski with tele.

[hemas]

good luck on your adventure. I got into tele this year, and I love it. after alpine skiing my whole life tele is the answer to being entertained on days that aren't perfect chest deep powder. also, when you advance enough, those days as well will be radical for tele. I am lookin forward to putting together a huge powder ski with tele.

Big pow skis w/ tele's are fun... I'm a gaper and have a blast skiing old Big Daddies and Sanouks w/ tele's...

T1's EnerG's, CXR's and CXU's are about perfect for advanced alpiners starting to tele... XR's and new TRace are too stiff IMHO for even ripping alpiners turned tele (1st season), as they are simply too stiff in the bellows. That combined with non optimal technique will lead you wanting active binders (HammerHead in pos. 5) to compensate you're lack of finesse/technique. Something burly (see what I listed), but not über burly will be more than enough boot for all but the very best... And see what TeleKoptero is skiing... Old manky T2's, and that guy is rippin'.

As for skis... Well for PA, I wouldn't get anything wider than ~95mm... I mean, it's not like he'll be skiing in pow.

Something ~80 and 90mm is more than enough. For stifness, as stated the free heels means less power, so no need for uber stiff boards... Until you're a freak like LB/MT/Prof and all.

[half-fast]

No need, you can ski burly boots and still use neutral bindings... Same goes for skis

I think that for a beginner, burly boots and neutral bindings is going to result in tippy toeing.

[RootSkier]

Ignore this shit about active versus neutral. If you get neutral bindings you won't know any better and you will learn how to weight your rear ski properly.

Personally, I will not ski without releasable bindings. So 7tms for me, going on five years now, and I don't plan on switching anytime soon. Plus you can get the non-tour models pretty damn cheap now.